Elite Dangerous - Drew Wagar's Conspiracy - Part 2

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You mean the bit where he limited Salome's jump technique to make the event fun?




As you've had explained to you before, it wasn't a leak - a Cmdr found the Teorge listening posts and reported them.
Upon finding out that the listening posts were part of the reveal, that same Cmdr opted to delete the post. Nothing to do with Drew or FDev, no matter how much you want that to be the case.

Yes very good, but the deleted posts and comments were not related to Teorge listening posts, however the only screenshot I had was the Teorge posts at the time the stream ended as other posts were already deleted. Sorry for confusion, but you are mashing 2 different things together.

And that is not the only thing he limited. The ship modifications, the "goldylocks" tactics etc, they were all a loaded dice, and the event was advertised as equal opportunity.

Furthermore don't forget that video is 4 days old, I made the video a day later while neither you, nor me, nor anyone had the information we have now.

Hindsight is cool and all, however when trying to make this video I had to search through dust and debris that was still settling.

Yet still I wouldn't change a single thing in it as i feel that it is correct for its own timeline, and it is correct now.

There weren't and still are not that many coverage videos out there that cover more than "SDC killed Salome , the end".

So it's ironic that my video was probably the very same that gave you different perspectives to go investigate and debunk in the first place
 
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Some interesting hypothesis being banded about here.

At the end of the day, I'm not sure what relevance the escape pod has ? ...and how does it tie into the story?. There can NEVER be any real proof that Salome was inside it...the theory however could be included as part of the story , and why not...lyrical licensing and all that .

A story is a story, just that. Some people had fun, plotting and planning, interdicting possible spy's etc .

There are more important aspects of the event that need disclosing.

How did a well known griefer make it to the defence team ? despite the organisers being warned . How was he allowed to do it without multiple intervention from the defence team.

The amount of salt thrown over this is astounding. Personally I see little gain in anybody giving it a further shake .

Sorry Massive, I'm a great fan of your videos, but unless you can put up definitive proof of collusion or corruption rather than innuendo, you may end up with egg on your face and as a result lose viewers.
 
Yes very good, but the deleted posts and comments were not related to Teorge listening posts, however the only screenshot I had was the Teorge posts at the time the stream ended as other posts were already deleted. Sorry for confusion, but you are mashing 2 different things together.

And that is not the only thing he limited. The ship modifications, the "goldylocks" tactics etc, they were all a loaded dice, and the event was advertised as equal opportunity.

Furthermore don't forget that video is 4 days old, I made the video a day later while neither you, nor me, nor anyone had the information we have now.

Hindsight is cool at all, however when trying to make this video I had to search through dust and debris that was still settling.

Yet still I wouldn't change a single thing in it as i feel that it is correct for its own timeline, and it is correct now

An outcome can be weighted and the event still equal opportunity. That has to happen really to keep story context intact. S was always going to have things stacked against her personally. In the conflict of the might of the powers that be vs her was always going to be weighted agsinst her so it's fair to reflect that in her being disadvantaged form the off. That does not in any way mean players had less of an opportunity to take part and influence the outcome.

Things being stacked against her due to story =/= unequal player opportunity you are also mashing 2 things together.
 
Some interesting hypothesis being banded about here.

At the end of the day, I'm not sure what relevance the escape pod has ? ...and how does it tie into the story?. There can NEVER be any real proof that Salome was inside it...the theory however could be included as part of the story , and why not...lyrical licensing and all that .

A story is a story, just that. Some people had fun, plotting and planning, interdicting possible spy's etc .

There are more important aspects of the event that need disclosing.

How did a well known griefer make it to the defence team ? despite the organisers being warned . How was he allowed to do it without multiple intervention from the defence team.

The amount of salt thrown over this is astounding. Personally I see little gain in anybody giving it a further shake .

Sorry Massive, I'm a great fan of your videos, but unless you can put up definitive proof of collusion or corruption rather than innuendo, you may end up with egg on your face and as a result lose viewers.

Yuri Nakamura D is an official Salomes guardian listed by Drew himself in the Reddit post.

That video was filmed live during the XBOX event in which Yuri , very surprisingly to viewers, put himself in danger to acquire that pod, and rode away with it into the sunset (nobody can get the hold of him for an explanation)

Should I put an annotation in the video stating that that is real footage from event and not something made in post production?
 
And that is not the only thing he limited. The ship modifications, the "goldylocks" tactics etc, they were all a loaded dice, and the event was advertised as equal opportunity.

You say 'loaded dice', I say 'level playingfield'.
Look at golf, look at horse racing, look at TOCA - all of these apply handicaps to advantaged to make the 'game' more even and interesting. You wouldn't call any of THEM fixed.

Furthermore don't forget that video is 4 days old, I made the video a day later while neither you, nor me, nor anyone had the information we have now.

Hindsight is cool and all, however when trying to make this video I had to search through dust and debris that was still settling.

Yet still I wouldn't change a single thing in it as i feel that it is correct for its own timeline, and it is correct now.

You say it's old, and you weren't in possession of all the facts, but that it's still correct.
Sounds more like you jumped to the wrong conclusions and now you're doubling-down rather than admitting your mistakes.


So it's ironic that my video was probably the very same that gave you different perspectives to go investigate and debunk in the first place
Haven't watched it.
Ironic huh?
 
Man, and to think I was playing D&D when all this went down. Oh well, it looks like the fallout is much more fun than the event itself, anyway.

I like to imagine that this exact debate is happening in-character as well. It's too bad that the game doesn't support me flying around with a frickin' huge beam laser and carving "Salomé Lives" into moons and asteroids.
 
Meanwhile, in other places beyond this forum, people disagree that "no one was happy about it", lots of, what I can only assume are deluded people, had a fun time, loved the event and want more.

White knights, you know that's such a silly thing to call people that don't agree with negativity. I'm vaguely hopeful then that we can start calling people that only ever grouch and moan "grey knights" (cos black knights sounds too cool) or how about boogie knights for the upbeat folk and misery knights for those that even if they won the lottery would moan that they had to queue at the bank to deposit the cheque.
 

palazo

Banned
Meanwhile, in other places beyond this forum, people disagree that "no one was happy about it", lots of, what I can only assume are deluded people, had a fun time, loved the event and want more.

White knights, you know that's such a silly thing to call people that don't agree with negativity. I'm vaguely hopeful then that we can start calling people that only ever grouch and moan "grey knights" (cos black knights sounds too cool) or how about boogie knights for the upbeat folk and misery knights for those that even if they won the lottery would moan that they had to queue at the bank to deposit the cheque.

Of corse all we like is more of that events, you can still doing CG on solo.
 
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You say 'loaded dice', I say 'level playingfield'.
Look at golf, look at horse racing, look at TOCA - all of these apply handicaps to advantaged to make the 'game' more even and interesting. You wouldn't call any of THEM fixed.



You say it's old, and you weren't in possession of all the facts, but that it's still correct.
Sounds more like you jumped to the wrong conclusions and now you're doubling-down rather than admitting your mistakes.



Haven't watched it.
Ironic huh?

You havent watched it but managed to comment on it? Oh, ok then
 
What would you like to see as a result of your videos, if anything? Do you want some kind of mea culpa from Mr Drew?
 
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I've not been following the in and out of this case, but didn't Solome die at 19.44 hours and the pod is picked up at 06.26?
 
Salomé is dead, but maybe Lady Kahina isnt?...

If u guys read the book, you would know that despite being the same person, Salomé and Kahina are like two different characters.
 
I must admit it would tickle me if events were manipulated so as to troll the trollers, i.e. Salome lives! Harry's Avada Kedavra fizzled! *dry raspberry sound*

It would be a hilarious piece of karma :D

However the explanations of conspiracies are all too far fetched. Any kind of precise staging behind closed doors would be tons more effort than actually doing the event and seeing which of the two binary options occurs. Sure, Drew could have engineered his ship, his strategy could have been better, the defence could have been better organised - Voldemort's nemesis should have been kill on site for example, whether openly or planned as part of a surprise gank, etc, etc. But all that's just opinion. Also the notion that FD's official writer can be overruled by the public is not realistic at all.

And I feel attacking Drew Wagar personally by calling him a liar without any kind of tangible evidence to back that claim up is not nice nor does it strengthen your argument.

Drew has spoken and as far as this event is concerned he has final say. Whether we like it or not Drew says Salome is dead. Anything else; we'll have to wait for the book to come out or for Drew Wagar to say something different on the matter.

How great would it have been if a CMDR Voldemort showed up to shoot at Harry.
 
Drew has now stated about 4 times that Salome is dead - he reiterated it yesterday on the Rift thread at least twice, and he said "no ambiguity - she is dead". Any other thing happening would mean even more conspiracy theories since it was stated before the event that any major character who was killed during the event would be dead.

Now it could be that an excape pod was picked up indeed. However, you are making some assumptions as follows:

1) Salome was in the escape pod and was alone on her ship.
2) The person in the escape pod was alive.
3) Even if the person in the escape pod was alive, they are still alive now.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle killed of Sherlock Holmes at the Riechenbach Falls (good name for a ship that) - Holmes came back - you think Drew will succeed where Sir Arthur failed ?
- oh and do characters in fiction belong to the author or the fans ? - always an interesting topic.
 
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Sir Arthur Conan Doyle killed of Sherlock Holmes at the Riechenbach Falls (good name for a ship that) - Holmes came back - you think Drew will succeed where Sir Arthur failed ?
- oh and do characters in fiction belong to the author or the fans ? - always an interesting topic.

And what about Dirty Den, eh, eh?!
 
Salomé is dead, but maybe Lady Kahina isnt?...

If u guys read the book, you would know that despite being the same person, Salomé and Kahina are like two different characters.

That's my theory as well, because they used quotation marks - "Salomé" is dead.
Like my krysohmyz pointed out - "Batman" is dead, doesn't mean that Bruce is dead. :)
 
There is evidence that he lied about event being fair, as he later admitted he weighted the dice. Its all in this video
I watched your video MassiveD - your previous video was fun to watch by the way. I especially liked the photo shopped Return of the Jedi picture you did :)

However, I did not see any evidence in your video of Drew Wagar lying or admitting that he "weighted the dice". The snapshot you have of his comment only goes so far as saying,

"I had weighted some aspects in order to level the playing field between protagonist and antagonist".

That's a very ambiguous statement from which to pool a claim as severe as 'this was rigged'. His statement there could mean anything from researching how best to give as many people as possible a chance to instance with Salome and friends to ensuring that an equal number of antagonist and protagonist groups are involved and anything in between such as getting advice on which PvP load outs might be likely to be used. I would need more clarity from Drew Wagar about his statement before I assume that he rigged the event.

You also don't provide any evidence when you discuss how Salome's ship was apparently purposefully gimped. Where is the evidence that proves that Salome's ship was purposefully 'crippled' as you say? From my own observations I know that her ship was not engineered and Drew is not the Galaxy's most experienced player when it comes to PvP but does that constitute as Salome's chances being crippled on purpose? I personally don't think so. If we go down that route we might as well say that Salome's chances were always crippled unless a massively experienced player such as CMDR Truesilver were flying as her in a fully engineered ship.

I did not see any evidence in your video that supports the claim that the dice were loaded in favour of Salmoe dying. Now my own assumption is that SDC got used because of their predictability - they are the world's most predictable troll group when it comes to events and streams. They come, they disrupt, they lol. There is no one in the entire ED player base that could have been surprised or "masterfully tricked" by what Harry Potter did. One trick ponies can't surprise anyone. This was predicted by Drew, he put the carrot on the stick for them (Salome) as a distraction and got the ending he preferred in terms of story: a dramatic sacrifice for his main character. And we all still got the secret info via the other characters who survived. Win, win except for the alarming levels of publicity ED keeps on giving to gaming trolls, which even Drew states wouldn't have been his preferred choice of antagonist.

But, that is just my opinion. I have no evidence to back my assumption up as fact.

So again I must reiterate that I have seen no evidence to support that Drew Wagar lied about the chances of Salome dying. I have my own personal opinion but that is not fact. Whether I like the outcome or not I have yet to see solid evidence that the event was rigged therefore I don't think tarnishing Drew's name is warranted. At it's most simplistic: Drew Wagar organised an event in open. SDC got involved in their predictable style and Drew got blown up during said event - this unfortunately has become the rather depressing story of Elite Dangerous when it comes to live events/streams in Open mode.
 
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What would you like to see as a result of your videos, if anything? Do you want some kind of mea culpa from Mr Drew?

I would like to see him aknowledge that there were tremendous faults durring the event without mocking the community in the process.

He even put on that Palpatine avatar on forum profile and Twitter, to mock the people criticising him, while stroking his own ego.

I'd like to see him drop the ridiculous notion that anyone is calling him an all seeing mastermind, when the only thing that peopled outhright called him is a liar, and not just me.

But what I would like to see the most, is him getting of his high-horse and stepping down to talk to us like our opinion matters.

All he ever had to say in response to accusations, was the truth "I know I promised a fair event and choice for everyone, but yes I loaded the dice, I didn't think it would make such impact and matter that much, I was a bit ignorant, I'm only human, we all make mistakes, however we can't really turn back time, it would be impossible to redo the event at this point, thus we have to live with the results that we have, I'm sorry, I have learned much from this, and we will do a better job next time".

That would have been a very honest, humane way to aknowledge criticism, instead of simply spitting to our face, outright calling us lunatics that are yelling at the clouds, especially when everyone can tell that nothing was quite right durring the event.

In my eyes he would look like an honest and down to earth man, who can accept his own mortality. None of us are perfect, we are all human, we all lie, we all deceive, we all make mistakes both willingly and unvillingly, that is part of the human condition.

However, instead, he choses to sit on his high-cloud and bask in his own ignorance, while mocking any criticism.

Honestly, the more I think about it the more I hate him and any content related to him.

Something, that was not the case 4 days ago, when I just thought about him as some guy writting relatively cool stuff.


But what do I know, I'm just a peasant

- - - Updated - - -

I watched your video MassiveD - your previous video was fun to watch by the way. I especially liked the photo shopped Return of the Jedi picture you did :)

However, I did not see any evidence in your video of Drew Wagar lying or admitting that he "weighted the dice". The snapshot you have of his comment only goes so far as saying,

"I had weighted some aspects in order to level the playing field between protagonist and antagonist".

That's a very ambiguous statement from which to pool a claim as severe as 'this was rigged'. His statement there could mean anything from researching how best to give as many people as possible a chance to instance with Salome and friends to ensuring that an equal number of antagonist and protagonist groups are involved and anything in between such as getting advice on which PvP load outs might be likely to be used. I would need more clarity from Drew Wagar about his statement before I assume that he rigged the event.

You also don't provide any evidence when you discuss how Salome's ship was apparently purposefully gimped. Where is the evidence that proves that Salome's ship was purposefully 'crippled' as you say? From my own observations I know that her ship was not engineered and Drew is not the Galaxy's most experienced player when it comes to PvP but does that constitute as Salome's chances being crippled on purpose? I personally don't think so. If we go down that route we might as well say that Salome's chances were always crippled unless a massively experienced player such as CMDR Truesilver were flying as her in a fully engineered ship.

I did not see any evidence in your video that supports the claim that the dice were loaded in favour of Salmoe dying. Now my own assumption is that SDC got used because of their predictability - they are the world's most predictable troll group when it comes to events and streams. They come, they disrupt, they lol. There is no one in the entire ED player base that could have been surprised or "masterfully tricked" by what Harry Potter did. One trick ponies can't surprise anyone. This was predicted by Drew, he put the carrot on the stick for them (Salome) as a distraction and got the ending he preferred in terms of story: a dramatic sacrifice for his main character. And we all still got the secret info via the other characters who survived. Win, win except for the alarming levels of publicity ED keeps on giving to gaming trolls, which even Drew states wouldn't have been his preferred choice of antagonist.

But, all of that is just my opinion. I have no evidence to back any of it up as fact.

So again I must reiterate that I have seen no evidence to support that Drew Wagar lied about the chances of Salome dying. I have my own personal opinion but that is not fact. Whether I like the outcome or not I have yet to see solid evidence that the event was rigged therefore I don't think tarnishing Drew's name is warranted. At it's most simplistic: Drew Wagar organised an event in open. SDC got involved in their predictable style and Drew got blown up during said event - this unfortunately has become the rather depressing story of Elite Dangerous when it comes to live events/streams in Open mode.

When I say that Drew loaded the dice, I do not mean that he did it by ill intent.

I don't think that Drew is a bad person. However, I'm a bit sick of his "but but but I only meant well".

Bad deeds, are sometimes done by good people, and the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

My friends? They never saw Salome once, they were on her friend list, yet never instanced with her.

Which is fine, RNG or whatnot.

My point is that the game in its current form, and the community itself, was already a leveled playing field with a 50%-50% chance for Salome to live or die.

The only reason any tinkering was edit to it, was to load the dice. Meant well or not, that what it was. He tinkered with the game out of sheer ignorance, and furthermore I hear a lot of people say that he did it to make Salome survive longer somehow, but in fact he did the opposite, he shot her in the foot and sent her on her way saying "I helped hurr durr".

What aint broke - dont fix it, and all that jazz.

Imagine the outfall, if in the olympics judges would come out and say, "well we dont feel like our field is level enough, so we gonna give this 1 runner a bit of doping, just a little bit, while we club that one in the knee, for event purposes you know"

No. Just no, end of discussion.

And I like the comparison slightly above "it's an equivalent of Han Solo being killed at the end by buggs bunny"

That would not have been just, same with Salome, a character that old in the lore not given just and fair end was a big mistake.

The notion that author is god has already been debunked.

Let me remind you of a certain visionary, who at old age decided that Yoda should blink, and Solo shot second.

He was briefly escorted to the nursing home, with a younger, less looney tuned author put forward to take over.

I like Drew, I really wish he would stop dismissing his audience when they are doing no harm, but criticising his incompetence. I criticise mine all the time, I don't see why should he be immune, especially when the community knows that technically, regarding lore, his word is no heavier than Dave's over there in the corner,.or Bob's, or your's Javert.

English may not be my native tongue, however I know what the word lie means. I studied criminal law, and I can tell that alot of people dont know the intricacies of the word.

For example, you know that withholding information when making a statement is also considered lying?

Drew said "your choice matters" when advertising the event, he witheld that the dice was loaded.

He lied. Even if he meant well
 
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I would like to see him aknowledge that there were tremendous faults durring the event without mocking the community in the process.

He even put on that Palpatine avatar on forum profile and Twitter, to mock the people criticising him, while stroking his own ego.

I'd like to see him drop the ridiculous notion that anyone is calling him an all seeing mastermind, when the only thing that peopled outhright called him is a liar, and not just me.

But what I would like to see the most, is him getting of his high-horse and stepping down to talk to us like our opinion matters.

So much this. I really hope he realizes what he does / did before his reputation is fully burned.
 
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