Quince is even more broken than we tought

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Sure, if they are broken, they should be fixed - but at the same time if I can, by dint of my own persistence in thoroughly researching the trade environment, make the same kind or better cr/hr as an "exploiter" does (and yes, that includes "starting from nothing" - you only need to "strike it rich" once and you're set) I can certainly understand FD putting those fixes at a way lower priority than something that is more game-breaking than "Joe over there has more credits than me.. I wonder if he earned them honestly?"

When a certain thing is clearly broken and can be used repeatedly, then it should be fixed.
Things change regards trade for various reasons but when one thing can get you a Conda in one days play, then things are kinda broken, no?

 

[Zambrick]

Okay, let's simplify it, even if I do know that those of an exploitative mindset where doing that kinda thing which others would be clueless about. And remember, not all visit these forums or any others. Engineers were exploited, common knowledge.

Bigger, or more ships, more A rated upgrades quicker, more guns, more armour, less chance of dying.
That's enough of an advantage to make a big difference.
I guess people forget the basics because they never had to deal with them.

No I deal with newbies regardless to their ships in the same manner. I have had newbie members of the game who joined our favorite 3 letter acronym PG and destroyed them in what would be considered a lesser ship. I got attacked by the bog Standard favorite loadout, ship, and engineering upgrades of the notorious Solome killer and Destroyed them in my Asp Explorer.

It has nothing to do with how much money you have and everything to do with experience. That is why people play this game instead of Eve, where the opposite is true.

- - - Updated - - -

When a certain thing is clearly broken and can be used repeatedly, then it should be fixed.
Things change regards trade for various reasons but when one thing can get you a Conda in one days play, then things are kinda broken, no?

Can you? Can you get an Anaconda in one day. Are all human beings born with the inherent knowledge of all things Elite Dangerous Upon birth? Do they know all previous knowledge and lore of the Elite Universe. You make those kinds of assumptions and people will call you out on it.

You and specifically you can and should be able to go from nothing to Anaconda in one or 2 days. With all of your previous knowledge, you know the exact path, exact method, and exact goal in mind can accomplish that task. A brand new player who doesn't know what a Sidewinder is let alone know that there is a ship called an Anaconda, can never and will never be from start to Anaconda in a day or 2.

Your assumptions require complete knowledge of all game mechanics before you turn the game on for the first time. It will never and has never worked that way. Making extreme and spurious examples for the advantage you think in game credits give you do not help your cause.

 

[Zambrick]

One of the largest downfall of this games mechanics is the base units of measure. All cargo, haulage and whatnot are measured in terms of tonnage. 1 ton of gold takes up the same physical space as 1 ton of people in the ED universe. 1 ton of diamonds is comparable to one ton of a more mundane item as far as profit is concerned.

 

[Saxon Kili]

The problem here is one of people being too concerned about how other people play their game.

Give me one tangible example of how player X using Quince effects how you play ?

Because: Vague BGS statement...

All celebrities and professional athletes need to have their paychecks nerfed. I hope nobody here watches these obscenely overpaid people ply their trade on television. /s

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

So this thread been running for 2 days and not a single FD personnel came here to extinguish the fire?! WOW! This need to be patched fast! This is what happens when you sell Beta access..

 

[Saxon Kili]

Ah, the good old Quince, where billions were made. And still are, judging by this thread.

Well, don't just stand there reading all this silly rattle. Go to Quince and make some money while it lasts! And Imperial rank, of course. And grab some useful data like IED, ESED, AEC and occasional CIF in the process. Take note of HIP 69328 - there's a neutron star awfully close to entry point that can considerably speed up your trip there and back.

And of course, ignore all these "It's exploit!" cries. Or even better:
- Fly past them in your shiny new Cutter (or Anaconda, or Corvette, or whatever you like to fly)
- Roll down respective side window (note: it is strongly recommended to put on your helmet before doing that)
- Put your respective arm outside and extend it towards them, palm up, fist closed
- Extend your middle finger

LoL. It will probably be a Beluga for me. Like someone else said, I'll name it the "Exploit". Open mode was packed out there last night. Thanks, thread!

 

[ArchEmperor]

LoL. It will probably be a Beluga for me. Like someone else said, I'll name it the "Exploit". Open mode was packed out there last night. Thanks, thread!

Haha. I really really REALLY hope FD puts up a big neon like sign over the stations reading: "EXPLOIT HEAVEN!"

And hope they implement in game poker games, casino and other stuff we can blow all our exploit money on! And music and dancing and party and fun!

Oh! And racing between cmdr's around the star and back. Quince for the WIN! YEY!

Outside the station we have ganking/griefing and other bar-fights and just all good ol' fun.

It will be like the Galaxy Wild West version of Old Las Vegas.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

No I deal with newbies regardless to their ships in the same manner. I have had newbie members of the game who joined our favorite 3 letter acronym PG and destroyed them in what would be considered a lesser ship. I got attacked by the bog Standard favorite loadout, ship, and engineering upgrades of the notorious Solome killer and Destroyed them in my Asp Explorer.

It has nothing to do with how much money you have and everything to do with experience. That is why people play this game instead of Eve, where the opposite is true.

- - - Updated - - -



Can you? Can you get an Anaconda in one day. Are all human beings born with the inherent knowledge of all things Elite Dangerous Upon birth? Do they know all previous knowledge and lore of the Elite Universe. You make those kinds of assumptions and people will call you out on it.

You and specifically you can and should be able to go from nothing to Anaconda in one or 2 days. With all of your previous knowledge, you know the exact path, exact method, and exact goal in mind can accomplish that task. A brand new player who doesn't know what a Sidewinder is let alone know that there is a ship called an Anaconda, can never and will never be from start to Anaconda in a day or 2.

Your assumptions require complete knowledge of all game mechanics before you turn the game on for the first time. It will never and has never worked that way. Making extreme and spurious examples for the advantage you think in game credits give you do not help your cause.

Working your way up through ships is no longer necessary. Big profits are made by exploiting the game and this has been going on for a long time. It's the nature of the beast as there have been plenty before but now I'm the bad banana because this one is particularly nasty and very, very easy...?

New players don't have much experience so if one exploits and one doesn't, the exploiter has the advantage. Legit player looks at time wasted on working their way up, potentially quits game. All because one was allowed to take a shortcut. This is never good, either for the player base or the game as a whole.

You keep on talking about you but you are not acknowledging there are other players out there. The Universe does not simply revolve around you only, no matter how good you think you are. There are players of many different skill sets to also be considered.

There was a video, kinda what the threads about, you should watch it and see what I'm referring to. Then you might get it.
I have 26 weeks in this game. I have no idea what you think you're accusing me off but swing and a miss, baby.
I learnt how to play and how quite a few things work which served me well.
No need to learn much else beyond Engineer fast tracking to only PvP, at the expense of every other element of the game....with no fear of rebuy.
Sometimes I wonder that if easy money wasn't so easily available, would players be so keen to engage in such things.

One other, if you want your hold full of diamonds then your insurance would need to go through the roof to do so. Then again I'd expect logging off to be a very big thing again so probably not gonna happen...because Huuman's, even in a stew, make a very weak sauce.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Invalid, here's why:

1: Player 1's skills are no better (actually they're likely worse) than Player 2's.
2: Due to both player's inexperience they are likely to come out poorly fit for combat.
3: You cannot exploit your way into an Engineered ship.
4: You cannot exploit your way into better flying skills.

The only point that's valid in your example is the rebuy, which gives neither player the advantage. What if the last stations they docked at were 30-40ly away? Player A is going to be long gone before player B can get back to the fight, likely due to boredom.

In fact the player in the smaller ship will do better in the long run as he'll learn more. And putting them at the same starting point is a misnomer since once they each go off on their way fate will decide their journey.

Starting in a god mode easy ship will just get your handed to you inPVP. The player who has to work his way up ships will become the better player.

I like how a lot of people here think getting more credits makes you better somehow - nope - expereince makes you better and in a god mode ship you get none.

 

[Deadspin]

That's not the point. You seem to have missed what it's like to start from nothing.
Not that it would surprise if you fast tracked your way.
And that's the disconnect.
Exploiters will always exploit anything in the game but when it makes no sense then it needs fixed.
And just because players have used these things in the past, of which many have been fixed, does not validate the use of these things.
So, if broken, they need fixed, period.

Say that to inexperienced commanders.
Say that to the PvP commanders who fast tracked all their materials through exploits.
Say that to the CMDR in Open who has had to work their way up the hard way only to run into some who exploited their way to the best stuff.

This is why these things need fixed.
I'm really surprised that there is so much adversity in suggesting that when something is broken, it should be fixed.

Your replies are very sensationalist.
It actually is the point and you seem to be the one missing it.

I started from nothing during Gamma, before any exploits were found and worked my way up so very slowly back when a Dangerous Anaconda in a RES only got you 3,000 credits for a bounty, back when trade profits were measured in thousands of credits/hour, not millions, back when refilling the ammo stores on your multicannon cost more than the top three bounties you claimed combined, back when you absolutely had to have a fuel scoop because fuel costs were so high that, if you didn't, the simple cost of gas negated most minor missions and trade movements.

Yes, I've taken part in the "exploits" but I've also been here from before Day 1 and remember what the game played like back then. I've scummed maybe 200 million from exploits, not billions. I've flown every ship in progression, fitting from D to A as I could, except for the Cutter, Corvette and Federal Gunship. Hell, I used my exploit money to build my Anaconda and, in the end, I'm not really all that impressed with it and am planning to scrap it the second I get back to the bubble because it's a whale with a giant target painted on its back.

There were no material exploits for Engineers. There were only guides on where you could find the highest density of mats. There were no exploits for commodities. There is no exploit to get you to the 5000ly requirement to access one of the engineers save for actually pulling a 5000ly trip through the insanity of empty space.

You sir, seem to be the one who's failing to make the connection here.
You sir, are the individual who can't seem to separate "wallet" and "skill" in your train of thought.
You sir, are the person who, despite multiple people explaining it to you in detail, can't seem to understand that you don't just join this game, get the biggest ship and become Mr. Awesome-I-pvp-everyone-and-win overnight.

The adversity you're seeing is not people suggesting various ways for it to be fixed, it's people pointing out that things aren't really broken and that maybe those who keep claiming they are need to take a step back and just play the game, especially since the amount of credits I or any one other person has in no way adversely affects your ability to play the game, nor does it affect your chances of winning a dog fight against an equally matched ship.

The only unmatched ships are engineered and nobody in this game has exploited their way to level 5 engineered components because that type of exploit simply doesn't exist.

So do us all a favor and take a step back, stop getting so angry over some perceived slight and just play the damned game.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

In fact the player in the smaller ship will do better in the long run as he'll learn more. And putting them at the same starting point is a misnomer since once they each go off on their way fate will decide their journey.

Starting in a god mode easy ship will just get your handed to you inPVP. The player who has to work his way up ships will become the better player.

I like how a lot of people here think getting more credits makes you better somehow - nope - expereince makes you better and in a god mode ship you get none.

Sighs.I can see when I'm wasting my time.

Not everyone PvP's...and that also has bearing on the BGS. Not that many have much of a clue how that works.
Then, excess amount of cash allows fast tracking of other things.
Sometimes I feel like I'm trying to explain how things work when no one seems to know how the game works because all they've ever done is farm cash the easiest way possible.
I don't think I wanna give any clues so I'm just gonna say that current exploit is bad. Please try and fix it asap FD, cheers.


Beer!! Hurrah!!!

 

[Fishy]

The only unmatched ships are engineered and nobody in this game has exploited their way to level 5 engineered components because that type of exploit simply doesn't exist.

***cough*** Cracked Industrial Firmware multiplayer instance refresh farm ***cough***

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

The only unmatched ships are engineered and nobody in this game has exploited their way to level 5 engineered components because that type of exploit simply doesn't exist.

***cough*** Cracked Industrial Firmware multiplayer instance refresh farm ***cough***

***cough*** Famine system POI scanning for wakes ***cough***

 

[UnionJack]

Well, the one where I get unlimited grade 5 mats by shooting at the same crashed cargo hold on a planet is good.

Anyway looks like there is a ceasefire in Quince so war might be coming to an end now.

45M CR in Massacre missions shot.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Your replies are very sensationalist.
It actually is the point and you seem to be the one missing it.

I started from nothing during Gamma, before any exploits were found and worked my way up so very slowly back when a Dangerous Anaconda in a RES only got you 3,000 credits for a bounty, back when trade profits were measured in thousands of credits/hour, not millions, back when refilling the ammo stores on your multicannon cost more than the top three bounties you claimed combined, back when you absolutely had to have a fuel scoop because fuel costs were so high that, if you didn't, the simple cost of gas negated most minor missions and trade movements.

Yes, I've taken part in the "exploits" but I've also been here from before Day 1 and remember what the game played like back then. I've scummed maybe 200 million from exploits, not billions. I've flown every ship in progression, fitting from D to A as I could, except for the Cutter, Corvette and Federal Gunship. Hell, I used my exploit money to build my Anaconda and, in the end, I'm not really all that impressed with it and am planning to scrap it the second I get back to the bubble because it's a whale with a giant target painted on its back.

There were no material exploits for Engineers. There were only guides on where you could find the highest density of mats. There were no exploits for commodities. There is no exploit to get you to the 5000ly requirement to access one of the engineers save for actually pulling a 5000ly trip through the insanity of empty space.

You sir, seem to be the one who's failing to make the connection here.
You sir, are the individual who can't seem to separate "wallet" and "skill" in your train of thought.
You sir, are the person who, despite multiple people explaining it to you in detail, can't seem to understand that you don't just join this game, get the biggest ship and become Mr. Awesome-I-pvp-everyone-and-win overnight.

The adversity you're seeing is not people suggesting various ways for it to be fixed, it's people pointing out that things aren't really broken and that maybe those who keep claiming they are need to take a step back and just play the game, especially since the amount of credits I or any one other person has in no way adversely affects your ability to play the game, nor does it affect your chances of winning a dog fight against an equally matched ship.

The only unmatched ships are engineered and nobody in this game has exploited their way to level 5 engineered components because that type of exploit simply doesn't exist.

So do us all a favor and take a step back, stop getting so angry over some perceived slight and just play the damned game.

Ask SDC about the exploits which they only announced knowing they were getting fixed. Oh wait...guess I wasn't making stuff up.
If you think it is right to complete multiples of very high value missions with little or no effort then you are not in touch with the recent balancing that was done. You still haven't even commented on that yet.
Why are the exploits nerfed? You know why, yet it's better just to continue to allow them in your eyes for some reason. Maybe it makes you feel better about yourself but I really don't care. If it's broken, needs fixed.
We can do this dance all day but it's pretty clear some of us don't like to exploit stuff to get ahead, some do.
I'm happy enough to wait till it gets fixed but I won't be playing the game your way because that way sucks to me.

You can argue all you want but from a base position, regardless of skill, those who use the exploits are using them to get ahead and they know it.
I would much rather play the game in a fairer manner.

You introduced the skill argument as a means to deflect that there may be any advantage in exploiting when there clearly is, I have been arguing the point on the grounds of 2 players of equal skill, because that would be fair, that if one can gain more money than another using what is an exploit, then it would be unfair.
It's not hard, no matter how much you try and change the conversation towards skill and experience being the deciding factor. It will always be that way but the quicker a player gets to the ships to gain that precious experience and skill with that ship will always be a major factor, and that is what these financial exploits allow.
I think I can safely add other exploits to that list as well from previous posts.

That's not good.

 

[Morbad]

I've scummed maybe 200 million from exploits

I've made a similar amount just performing one-off demonstrations of certain exploits for bug reports.

There were no material exploits for Engineers.

This is false.

There are instancing exploits with POIs and surface bases that have been used to rapidly and repeatedly farm the same materials and data from the same instance. This is clearly not intended.

There is no exploit to get you to the 5000ly requirement to access one of the engineers save for actually pulling a 5000ly trip through the insanity of empty space.

To the best of my knowledge, that is true, though 5k lightyears is a pretty trivial jaunt in a 600k credit hauler, especially if you don't care about bringing it back.

 

[Crash1099]

Ask SDC about the exploits which they only announced knowing they were getting fixed.
If you think it is right to complete multiples of very high value missions with little or no effort then you are not in touch with the recent balancing that was done. You still haven't even commented on that yet.
Why are the exploits nerfed? You know why, yet it's better just to continue to allow them in your eyes for some reason. Maybe it makes you feel better about yourself but I really don't care. If it's broken, needs fixed.
We can do this dance all day but it's pretty clear some of us don't like to exploit stuff to get ahead, some do.
I'm happy enough to wait till it gets fixed but I won't be playing the game your way because that way sucks to me.

You can argue all you want but from a base position, regardless of skill, those who use the exploits are using them to get ahead and they know it.
I would much rather play the game in a fairer manner.

You introduced the skill argument as a means to deflect that there may be any advantage in exploiting when there clearly is, I have been arguing the point on the grounds of 2 players of equal skill, because that would be fair, that if one can gain more money than another using what is an exploit, then it would be unfair.
It's not hard, no matter how much you try and change the conversation towards skill and experience being the deciding factor. It will always be that way but the quicker a player gets to the ships to gain that precious experience and skill with that ship will always be a major factor, and that is what these financial exploits allow.

That's not good.

Guess what it shows up in the missions. It is a legal transaction right now. Deal with it.

 

[Dbrn47]

Ultimately I find the argument that exploits, "aren't affecting anyone else" pretty laughable as it's essentially impossible to take a mission, destroy an NPC ship, buy/sell cargo, sell exploration data, or turn in bonds/vouchers, without changing my game in some way, and all of these actions are influenced by what one has and what one does to get more.

Well, then I guess we both get to laugh at something. Nothing further.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

I don't think Frontier actually can fix the mission system, at least not without having to completely recode the BGS as well.

For example, think of systems where these missions are offered as well but are not in the same abundance. Now think back to when Frontier nerfed long-range smuggling due to the outcry over the perceived overpayments given there. Not only did they nerf the payouts on Robigo smuggling, but that single change to the mission metrics changed smuggling across the entire bubble.

It seems to me that everything is tied together and that changing any one little thing is actually a much larger and more complex task than we imagine.

It hurts my perception of the game and frontier. Skimmers = ships... one kill = multiple successes... 10 scan missions get one scan target...

First of all, none of this should have made it into production in the first place. This isn't overlooking some special condition that was missed during testing, this is basic framework stuff that was missed during design.

Then, instead of taking the time out to actually fix the problems, they just bandaid them instead. See, skimmers still equal ships, it's just now you can't kill ships outside of CZs (when you used to be able to, and it made sense to be able to do so). So, out of of sight, out of mind, right? Right? 1 kill = 1 success... don't fix the problem, just make it so the player can only have three missions at a time. Similar with scan missions... only not only did the apply a bandaid, but it would seem they failed to even do that properly.

That kind of sloppiness doesn't do much to recharge my Elite Dangerous batteries. If it's not sloppiness and it's all by design, then I would be thrilled to hear an official reason for it all. I very much doubt that any of it was by design though.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Guess what it shows up in the missions. It is a legal transaction right now. Deal with it.

Well, duh.
This is why I have my tentacles in a flap.
I just thought I'd mention it.