Elite: Harmless - Karma System aka "be the Tamagotchi" - FRESH SALT, MINED RIGHT HERE

[Minonian]

Then again, EVE has a little thing called "depth", whereas elite could be compared to a puddle.

Sad but true, and the unresolved nature of griefing problem only makes it worse, since lessens the player player interaction, and they are even trolled to nothing the multi crew, and FD do nothing about it.

- - - Updated - - -

Here it is.

Spoiler

Break the ships down into the 3 main pillars of the game

Trading
Combat
Exploration.

Multirole ships will need to choose a specialized chassis when purchasing the ship. It will be built into the cost of the ship. In order to change to one of the other pillars, it will require a large investment, At least half of the original ship cost.

Each of the ship types has specialized armaments, armor, and Utilities. They also have limitations to them and cannot mix and match items.


Base Utilities and modules available to everyone.

Spoiler

Utilities:
Chaff, POD, Wake Scanner, ECM, Shield Boosters, Cargo scanner, Heatsinks
Primary Modules:
Power Plant, Fuel Tanks, FSD, Sensors, Life Support, Thrusters, Basic Power Distributors, Lightweight Armor, Advanced Armor

Secondary Modules:
All the same with the exception of Shielding. Basic shields and shield cell banks will stay the same but specialized shielding will be available to different types of ships.

Combat ships:

Spoiler

Ship Performance. Same as is currently.

Utilities: All the same as base Utilities. Add Kill Warrent Scanner

Weapon Hardpoints: Max Hardpoint size Huge
All of the current base weapons with no changes made

Primary Module:. All the same accept they get Military grade Armor. Military grade armor is the same level of armor as it is now, but it adds a 20% resistance boost to module protection against all damage types. Same weight.

Secondary Modules:
Same as Basic but with the addition of Bi Weave shielding and Bi Weave Prismatic shielding
Secondary Supercruise Manifest scanning station. Scans cargo in supercruise. EMP Discharge module. This will discharge an EMP blast so as to keep power going to your ships shields if hit by EMP blast.

Exploration ships:

Spoiler

Ship Performance Fastest base speed and boost in the game. Keep same agility levels

Utilities:
Same as Base utilities. Sensor scrambler. Makes tracking past 2.5KM difficult for sensors and targeting computers. Wake Scrambler. Scrambles wake coordinates(based off of grade purchased. A rated scrambler will have an 85% chance to scramble wake coordinates.)

Plus some science modules but not sure what kind yet.

Weapon Hardpoints: Max Size Large Same as current weapons

Primary Modules:

Same as basic modules but with the following changes.
Boosted FSD. Better range for jumping
High Performance Thrusters. Uses less power per boost.
Composite armor: Provides Advanced Armor level protection at the wieght of light armor. Assist with radar/sensor absorption.

Secondary Modules:

Advanced Shields. Best shields in game but longest recharge time an no access to shield boosters or shield cell banks.
ADS and DSS can be combined into one module for exploration ships only.
Fuel Compressor. Compresses the fuel you scoop into approximately 25% more in the same space.
If we get them a science station in the future.

Trading Vessels:

Spoiler

Ship Performance: Same as current trade vessels

Utilities: Same as basic but with addition of advanced Wake Scrambler. Gives 100% chance to scramble wake upon High Wake.

Advanced Turret targeting system. Allows turrets to track faster and more accurately. Allows you to select and fire all turreted weaponry even if not in front of ship. Because of accuracy increase base DPS for each weapon type is increased 15%. This will affect Medium size turrets only.

Prismatic Chaff Launcher: Launches prismatic chaff which will dissipate all non ballistic type damage by scattering the light/heat.

Weapon Hardpoints: Maximum size Medium. Turrets Only. Access to specialized weapons that can only be used by Trading vessels Due to oversized power plant.

Trading vessels are large and slow and owned by individuals. They should be more liken to mini flying forts less like flying soda cans. The closer you get to a Trade ship the harder it should be for the aggressor.


Range:

Long-
EMP Cannon: Fires long range burst projectile that will scramble a random module on attacking ship causing no damage but does count as an attack. Rest of weapons but turret only.
Plasma Beam: Long Range plasma based beam attack. More powerful than regular beam laser but at the cost of more energy requirements.

Medium-
Multi railgun cannon. Does the same damage as current multicannon, but it bypasses armor to a certain extent like current railgun.
Turret Mounted Plasma Accelerators
Turret mounted Seeker missiles pods.
All the same weapons that we have turreted of course.

Short Range-
Turreted Fragment cannon.
Mines both types.
Third Mine type. EMP burst mine. If hit the attacking ship will reboot power plant.

Primary Modules:

All the same as basic but with the following exceptions.

Ablative Armor: This will add the same armor level as Military but with an additional 25% armor boost. No special resistance but it will render power plant and thrusters as un targetable. Fully encased in the armor. All other modules can be target as normal. Weights as much as advanced armor.

High Capacity Power Plant. All Current class A power plants will provide an additional 30% power production. Same Weight

Secondary Modules.

All the same as basic except for the following changes.

(Shield multiplier needs to be on par to offer the same level of protection as Combat ships.)
Overcharged Shields: Provides the same protection and characteristics as Prismatic shields without requiring the powerplay requirement. Can only recharge in super cruise.
No access to bi weave or prismatic bi weave. No access to advanced shields.

Fuel compression module

Multirole ship Advantages per cost difference.

Spoiler

If you purchase a multirole ship, then it will justify its cost because you can kind of mix and match specific modules. Plus you get the added speed and agility that do not come with the normal role ship.

Tradaconda for example. You can fit all medium modules if you want. However if you choose to fit large or huge modules you can. But at the cost of only being able to fit fixed weapon type. No gimbels or turrets allowed on large weapons if you have an anaconda with a trading hull setup.

The pillar you choose determines what kind of weapons and armor you have access to.

THX i will take a look.

 

[Ulfar]

I may have missed it in the 80 pages but a karma system does not replace the need for a decent in game law and order system.

Given all the quality of life im,provements we have been denied in the name of realism, a karma system just goes in there with the multiplayer ship gameplay to show that FDev really do not have much of an idea how to take the game to the next level and have no internal logicval consistency.

 

[Unbreakable]

What are your thoughts on how player vs player pirating would continue as a legitimate style of play if you put the threat of death in context of a karmic punishment system?

Piracy is legit and will still be allowed, and should easily survive a change like this. Hell I even think that ganking in space should still be allowed. People go crazy and kill others for any old reason these days, who's to say space madness doesn't set in and people set out only to destroy others. What the karma system is taking aim at is people abusing a system or mechanic that they shouldn't be, such as station ramming.

 

[Minonian]

Here it is.

Spoiler

Break the ships down into the 3 main pillars of the game

Trading
Combat
Exploration.

Multirole ships will need to choose a specialized chassis when purchasing the ship. It will be built into the cost of the ship. In order to change to one of the other pillars, it will require a large investment, At least half of the original ship cost.

Each of the ship types has specialized armaments, armor, and Utilities. They also have limitations to them and cannot mix and match items.


Base Utilities and modules available to everyone.

Spoiler

Utilities:
Chaff, POD, Wake Scanner, ECM, Shield Boosters, Cargo scanner, Heatsinks
Primary Modules:
Power Plant, Fuel Tanks, FSD, Sensors, Life Support, Thrusters, Basic Power Distributors, Lightweight Armor, Advanced Armor

Secondary Modules:
All the same with the exception of Shielding. Basic shields and shield cell banks will stay the same but specialized shielding will be available to different types of ships.

Combat ships:

Spoiler

Ship Performance. Same as is currently.

Utilities: All the same as base Utilities. Add Kill Warrent Scanner

Weapon Hardpoints: Max Hardpoint size Huge
All of the current base weapons with no changes made

Primary Module:. All the same accept they get Military grade Armor. Military grade armor is the same level of armor as it is now, but it adds a 20% resistance boost to module protection against all damage types. Same weight.

Secondary Modules:
Same as Basic but with the addition of Bi Weave shielding and Bi Weave Prismatic shielding
Secondary Supercruise Manifest scanning station. Scans cargo in supercruise. EMP Discharge module. This will discharge an EMP blast so as to keep power going to your ships shields if hit by EMP blast.

Exploration ships:

Spoiler

Ship Performance Fastest base speed and boost in the game. Keep same agility levels

Utilities:
Same as Base utilities. Sensor scrambler. Makes tracking past 2.5KM difficult for sensors and targeting computers. Wake Scrambler. Scrambles wake coordinates(based off of grade purchased. A rated scrambler will have an 85% chance to scramble wake coordinates.)

Plus some science modules but not sure what kind yet.

Weapon Hardpoints: Max Size Large Same as current weapons

Primary Modules:

Same as basic modules but with the following changes.
Boosted FSD. Better range for jumping
High Performance Thrusters. Uses less power per boost.
Composite armor: Provides Advanced Armor level protection at the wieght of light armor. Assist with radar/sensor absorption.

Secondary Modules:

Advanced Shields. Best shields in game but longest recharge time an no access to shield boosters or shield cell banks.
ADS and DSS can be combined into one module for exploration ships only.
Fuel Compressor. Compresses the fuel you scoop into approximately 25% more in the same space.
If we get them a science station in the future.

Trading Vessels:

Spoiler

Ship Performance: Same as current trade vessels

Utilities: Same as basic but with addition of advanced Wake Scrambler. Gives 100% chance to scramble wake upon High Wake.

Advanced Turret targeting system. Allows turrets to track faster and more accurately. Allows you to select and fire all turreted weaponry even if not in front of ship. Because of accuracy increase base DPS for each weapon type is increased 15%. This will affect Medium size turrets only.

Prismatic Chaff Launcher: Launches prismatic chaff which will dissipate all non ballistic type damage by scattering the light/heat.

Weapon Hardpoints: Maximum size Medium. Turrets Only. Access to specialized weapons that can only be used by Trading vessels Due to oversized power plant.

Trading vessels are large and slow and owned by individuals. They should be more liken to mini flying forts less like flying soda cans. The closer you get to a Trade ship the harder it should be for the aggressor.


Range:

Long-
EMP Cannon: Fires long range burst projectile that will scramble a random module on attacking ship causing no damage but does count as an attack. Rest of weapons but turret only.
Plasma Beam: Long Range plasma based beam attack. More powerful than regular beam laser but at the cost of more energy requirements.

Medium-
Multi railgun cannon. Does the same damage as current multicannon, but it bypasses armor to a certain extent like current railgun.
Turret Mounted Plasma Accelerators
Turret mounted Seeker missiles pods.
All the same weapons that we have turreted of course.

Short Range-
Turreted Fragment cannon.
Mines both types.
Third Mine type. EMP burst mine. If hit the attacking ship will reboot power plant.

Primary Modules:

All the same as basic but with the following exceptions.

Ablative Armor: This will add the same armor level as Military but with an additional 25% armor boost. No special resistance but it will render power plant and thrusters as un targetable. Fully encased in the armor. All other modules can be target as normal. Weights as much as advanced armor.

High Capacity Power Plant. All Current class A power plants will provide an additional 30% power production. Same Weight

Secondary Modules.

All the same as basic except for the following changes.

(Shield multiplier needs to be on par to offer the same level of protection as Combat ships.)
Overcharged Shields: Provides the same protection and characteristics as Prismatic shields without requiring the powerplay requirement. Can only recharge in super cruise.
No access to bi weave or prismatic bi weave. No access to advanced shields.

Fuel compression module

Multirole ship Advantages per cost difference.

Spoiler

If you purchase a multirole ship, then it will justify its cost because you can kind of mix and match specific modules. Plus you get the added speed and agility that do not come with the normal role ship.

Tradaconda for example. You can fit all medium modules if you want. However if you choose to fit large or huge modules you can. But at the cost of only being able to fit fixed weapon type. No gimbels or turrets allowed on large weapons if you have an anaconda with a trading hull setup.

The pillar you choose determines what kind of weapons and armor you have access to.

Multi role variants? That's a good idea indeed! Increases the level of possibilities with minimal / none graphics overhaul, the need of new ships. The other ideas? Hmm... I afraid FD is too conservative for this big changes. But?

 

[DefiledDragon]

It would appear that some forms would, if a karma system were implemented, be treated as unacceptable, in that if carried out repeatedly, would incur major bad karma:



Potential consequences up to, and, apparently, including shadow-banning:

It's unfortunate that all of what they propose won't address the actual "griefing" that goes on in the game. A commander with a couple of years of experience can sit in a starter system in a stock sidewinder and pound clueless newbies who barely know how to raise their landing gear to smithereens without incurring any form of karma penalty because they aren't in a ship that massively overpowers the other players ship. Oh dear.

 

[Unbreakable]

Here it is.

Spoiler

Break the ships down into the 3 main pillars of the game

Trading
Combat
Exploration.

Multirole ships will need to choose a specialized chassis when purchasing the ship. It will be built into the cost of the ship. In order to change to one of the other pillars, it will require a large investment, At least half of the original ship cost.

Each of the ship types has specialized armaments, armor, and Utilities. They also have limitations to them and cannot mix and match items.


Base Utilities and modules available to everyone.

Spoiler

Utilities:
Chaff, POD, Wake Scanner, ECM, Shield Boosters, Cargo scanner, Heatsinks
Primary Modules:
Power Plant, Fuel Tanks, FSD, Sensors, Life Support, Thrusters, Basic Power Distributors, Lightweight Armor, Advanced Armor

Secondary Modules:
All the same with the exception of Shielding. Basic shields and shield cell banks will stay the same but specialized shielding will be available to different types of ships.

Combat ships:

Spoiler

Ship Performance. Same as is currently.

Utilities: All the same as base Utilities. Add Kill Warrent Scanner

Weapon Hardpoints: Max Hardpoint size Huge
All of the current base weapons with no changes made

Primary Module:. All the same accept they get Military grade Armor. Military grade armor is the same level of armor as it is now, but it adds a 20% resistance boost to module protection against all damage types. Same weight.

Secondary Modules:
Same as Basic but with the addition of Bi Weave shielding and Bi Weave Prismatic shielding
Secondary Supercruise Manifest scanning station. Scans cargo in supercruise. EMP Discharge module. This will discharge an EMP blast so as to keep power going to your ships shields if hit by EMP blast.

Exploration ships:

Spoiler

Ship Performance Fastest base speed and boost in the game. Keep same agility levels

Utilities:
Same as Base utilities. Sensor scrambler. Makes tracking past 2.5KM difficult for sensors and targeting computers. Wake Scrambler. Scrambles wake coordinates(based off of grade purchased. A rated scrambler will have an 85% chance to scramble wake coordinates.)

Plus some science modules but not sure what kind yet.

Weapon Hardpoints: Max Size Large Same as current weapons

Primary Modules:

Same as basic modules but with the following changes.
Boosted FSD. Better range for jumping
High Performance Thrusters. Uses less power per boost.
Composite armor: Provides Advanced Armor level protection at the wieght of light armor. Assist with radar/sensor absorption.

Secondary Modules:

Advanced Shields. Best shields in game but longest recharge time an no access to shield boosters or shield cell banks.
ADS and DSS can be combined into one module for exploration ships only.
Fuel Compressor. Compresses the fuel you scoop into approximately 25% more in the same space.
If we get them a science station in the future.

Trading Vessels:

Spoiler

Ship Performance: Same as current trade vessels

Utilities: Same as basic but with addition of advanced Wake Scrambler. Gives 100% chance to scramble wake upon High Wake.

Advanced Turret targeting system. Allows turrets to track faster and more accurately. Allows you to select and fire all turreted weaponry even if not in front of ship. Because of accuracy increase base DPS for each weapon type is increased 15%. This will affect Medium size turrets only.

Prismatic Chaff Launcher: Launches prismatic chaff which will dissipate all non ballistic type damage by scattering the light/heat.

Weapon Hardpoints: Maximum size Medium. Turrets Only. Access to specialized weapons that can only be used by Trading vessels Due to oversized power plant.

Trading vessels are large and slow and owned by individuals. They should be more liken to mini flying forts less like flying soda cans. The closer you get to a Trade ship the harder it should be for the aggressor.


Range:

Long-
EMP Cannon: Fires long range burst projectile that will scramble a random module on attacking ship causing no damage but does count as an attack. Rest of weapons but turret only.
Plasma Beam: Long Range plasma based beam attack. More powerful than regular beam laser but at the cost of more energy requirements.

Medium-
Multi railgun cannon. Does the same damage as current multicannon, but it bypasses armor to a certain extent like current railgun.
Turret Mounted Plasma Accelerators
Turret mounted Seeker missiles pods.
All the same weapons that we have turreted of course.

Short Range-
Turreted Fragment cannon.
Mines both types.
Third Mine type. EMP burst mine. If hit the attacking ship will reboot power plant.

Primary Modules:

All the same as basic but with the following exceptions.

Ablative Armor: This will add the same armor level as Military but with an additional 25% armor boost. No special resistance but it will render power plant and thrusters as un targetable. Fully encased in the armor. All other modules can be target as normal. Weights as much as advanced armor.

High Capacity Power Plant. All Current class A power plants will provide an additional 30% power production. Same Weight

Secondary Modules.

All the same as basic except for the following changes.

(Shield multiplier needs to be on par to offer the same level of protection as Combat ships.)
Overcharged Shields: Provides the same protection and characteristics as Prismatic shields without requiring the powerplay requirement. Can only recharge in super cruise.
No access to bi weave or prismatic bi weave. No access to advanced shields.

Fuel compression module

Multirole ship Advantages per cost difference.

Spoiler

If you purchase a multirole ship, then it will justify its cost because you can kind of mix and match specific modules. Plus you get the added speed and agility that do not come with the normal role ship.

Tradaconda for example. You can fit all medium modules if you want. However if you choose to fit large or huge modules you can. But at the cost of only being able to fit fixed weapon type. No gimbels or turrets allowed on large weapons if you have an anaconda with a trading hull setup.

The pillar you choose determines what kind of weapons and armor you have access to.

i love this idea!

 

[Robert Maynard]

It's unfortunate that all of what they propose won't address the actual "griefing" that goes on in the game. A commander with a couple of years of experience can sit in a starter system in a stock sidewinder and pound clueless newbies who barely know how to raise their landing gear to smithereens without incurring any form of karma penalty because they aren't in a ship that massively overpowers the other players ship. Oh dear.

Presumably they'd need to be doing so with a new copy of the game - because time that an account has played the game could (and probably should) be taken into account, to attempt to deal with just such an occurrence.

 

[Unbreakable]

It's unfortunate that all of what they propose won't address the actual "griefing" that goes on in the game. A commander with a couple of years of experience can sit in a starter system in a stock sidewinder and pound clueless newbies who barely know how to raise their landing gear to smithereens without incurring any form of karma penalty because they aren't in a ship that massively overpowers the other players ship. Oh dear.

someone actually posted on a FB group that they plan on doing that when the ps4 game releases, it didnt go over well with the community.

 

[DefiledDragon]

Presumably they'd need to be doing so with a new copy of the game - because time that an account has played the game could (and probably should) be taken into account, to attempt to deal with just such an occurrence.

Well, that remains to be seen. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out, but it seems to me that many people are seeing the introduction of the karma system as the silver bullet that's going to kill the Smiling Dog Crew and their ilk. I think they're going to be sorely disappointed.

- - - Updated - - -

someone actually posted on a FB group that they plan on doing that when the ps4 game releases, it didnt go over well with the community.

I don't imagine it did as it's not a particularly sporting or constructive way to play the game.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Well, that remains to be seen. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out, but it seems to me that many people are seeing the introduction of the karma system as the silver bullet that's going to kill the Smiling Dog Crew and their ilk. I think they're going to be sorely disappointed.

Indeed. However, once the framework is in place (if it is implemented, of course, and that isn't guaranteed), the quantum can be tweaked to suit.

I don't imagine it did as it's not a particularly sporting or constructive way to play the game.

Quite.

 

[Vacendak]

Am I the only one that finds it funny that the OP goes on and on about"weak solo players" not wanting their game play ruined by guys like him messing with them yet incessantly whines about a karma system that will ruin his game play by messing with him in a similar manner?

I know the OP is deliberately salt mining but it's like he's not even trying...

 

[lenna]

o no not that drastic. They shouldnt.

I am dropping the link to the details I had created in a thread in the past. I dont want ships themselves to be balanced at all. The more you pay the better your ship. However the roles need balanced and I think specialization can do that.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/311628-Crime-Punishment-PVP-Balance-Ideas

Overall, I think your proposal goes at least a step too far. Especially where the multi-role vessels are concerned - I totally disagree with that.

Lets take a simple Python type level trading v. combat v. multi-role as an example where the three vessels are roughly on par with each other.

Trading: 3 x C6 Universal Slots, 3 x C5 Dedicating Trading slots, 3 C4 Universal Slot
Combat: 3 x C6 Universal Slots, 3 x C5 Dedicated Military slots, 3 C4 Universal Slot
Multi-role: 3 x C6 Universal Slots, 6 x C4 Universal slots

An exploration version could be along the lines of 3 x C6 Universal Slots, 3 x C5 Exploration slots, 3 C4 Universal Slot

Trading Slots: Fuel Tanks, Cargo Racks, Passenger Cabins, Mining related kit
Military Slots: SLF Hangars, SCBs, HRPs, MRPs, FSD Interdictors
Exploration Slots: SRV Bays, Exploration Scanners, Fuel Scoops, Fuel Tanks, AFMU

The overriding point is that multi-role stays flexible and adaptable but not in such a way as to be completely OP.

The ultimate problem with ship balance as it stands is there is the Multi-Role-Python and no real Trading/Combat/Exploration role alternatives to it. FDL may count as a combat version and the T7 may try to fill the relevant trade equivalent.

The trouble with going down this kind of path now is it would almost certainly involve a complete rebalance in such a way as to accommodate current builds but allow for a shift in balance towards the specialised ship benefits. IMO this would be hard to impossible to do without making everything OP in the current sense of balance. FD appear to have started to do some specialisation rebalancing already with the ship changes in 2.2/2.3, and based on what I have seen so far they seem to have the right idea wrt what can be practically done without throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Overall though, such balancing concerns are not part of the issues that need to be addressed by the karma/automated-PvP-moderation system IMO.

 

[Han_Zen]

It would appear that some forms would, if a karma system were implemented, be treated as unacceptable, in that if carried out repeatedly, would incur major bad karma:



Potential consequences up to, and, apparently, including shadow-banning:

Although I rather see an effective C&P system than a karma system, I think Sandro has a ballaced view on this.
What he describes is targeting station ramming, combat logging and extreme seal clubing. I'm fine with that.

They may want to add mode switching exploits to the list as well.

Anyone with a half decent ship or a combat rating of competent or higher must take care of them self, it seems.

I don't think it will stop the complaining on the forum, as attacking expencive ships will not give negative karma.

Sandro is right to reserve it for near cheating behaviour.

C&P should handle the rest.

Thre is still the issue that being attacked by a player is more dangerous than by an NPC. Stop that and the feeling of two different games in one are gone.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

There is a solution to griefing, but it is not one Frontier could enact, nor would most local constabularies approve, but it involves a mallet, an oak plank and the offender's fingers.
100% effective, but it makes certain people sad.

 

[lenna]

There is a solution to griefing, but it is not one Frontier could enact, nor would most local constabularies approve, but it involves a mallet, an oak plank and the offender's fingers.
100% effective, but it makes certain people sad.

I like your way of thinking, shame modern society frowns on even simple moderate parental smacking... get rid of ASBOs and bring back the Stocks (no bricks nor heavy weights to throw though, just wet sponges and/or rotten fruit/veg).

 

[AceFlares]

... get rid of ASBOs and bring back the Stocks (no bricks nor heavy weights to throw though, just wet sponges and/or rotten fruit/veg).

That would require a forced entry into a student halls of residence which, could create quite a stampede and endanger the lives of innocents. However you could always wait for one of them to leave their basement and capture the perp with a big fishing net or a wire snare .

 

[Dialectic]

"Sadly" We don't care about "your experience", and don't share your enthusiasm about "PVP" we got what we like and we plan to stick with it. And that's namely PVE and PPC (player player cooperation)
As an example, We don't obliged to like i don't know? Rock just because you do!

If you are not, why you defending them? Why you act like one? And say we are PVP haters, while we only talking about griefing? Can you explain us this?

Suspicious.

No one saying this, only you act like we do!

- - - Updated - - -



Nope, what you trying to do, is redefine griefing, so you can do it under another name. you are my "friend" a griefer who hiding behind the flag of PVP, And based on your arguments an experienced one, whom gone over in this debate a thousand times.

You're as bad as that zabrag guy. I haven't even destroyed a single player ship and you've called me a griefer. So while I don't have much experience to offer to this discussion, I don't think you have any objectivity to offer.

- - - Updated - - -

Nobody is debating that.

Piracy needs a huge overhaul. They need to be able to steal and make a profit. They need a mission system. They need specialized tools for Piracy. They just havent provided them.

We are talking about griefers. Station rammers, newbie killers, Trade ship exclusive killing. But those things must be shown as a repeatable and definitive conclusion before a response is given. The intention to ruin another persons game play experience must be completely clear before action occurs. The Karma system can provide that.

See what you do there? Every time you do this. You say something that seems widely accepted as griefing, like station ramming, then you mix it in with trade ship killing, which is not griefing. YOU aren't on the same page with FD it seems.

Griefing being illegal, and piracy/murder pvp needing a karma system. They aren't the same.

You mix it together and it just es off everyone interested in pvp.

- - - Updated - - -

Discourage being the key word there. They want to provide consequences for killing another player without reason, but they're not saying that it's an unacceptable form of player interaction. The difference between in game criminal behaviour and griefing is very important and people need to recognise that the former, no matter how baseless it may seem, does not equate to the latter.

Most reasonable post I've seen to date.

 

[Goose4291]

Ridiculous out of game punishment for legitimate gameplay choices being pushed as a 'fair' idea?

I think its safe to say people who fly in open want a crime and punishment/Karma system that handles player action ingame. The issue drawing ire is the silly suggestion being championed to use out of game mechanics to punish a player path that is encouraged both by the games marketing and its mechanics.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Ridiculous out of game punishment for legitimate gameplay choices being pushed as a 'fair' idea?

The fact that Frontier seem to be considering such a system might suggest that the player behaviours that would incur bad karma are not considered, by Frontier, to be good for the health of the game. Ultimately, Frontier decide what is legitimate (or not) and whether repeatedly engaging in certain behaviours remains so.

 

[Minonian]

You're as bad as that zabrag guy. I haven't even destroyed a single player ship and you've called me a griefer. So while I don't have much experience to offer to this discussion, I don't think you have any objectivity to offer.

If you don't than why you act like one of them? One of this can't be true.