Will Kickstarter Go The Way of Pre-Orders?

[shadragon]

Like lots of folks, I no longer pre-order games. I've been burned too many times with incomplete or misrepresented titles. Giving a publisher money before the game is released is an act of faith. Now I wait until the game is released and has several reviews from my favorite YouTubers. I look at the review and some game play footage and then decide whether or not to buy it.

Kickstarter funded projects require even more faith on the part of the backer. I've backed a few: Descent, Everspace, System Shock, Aquanox, etc. and overall I'm happy with the products received, but there's been a few curve balls that were not mentioned in the original campaigns that gave me pause. Now, I tend to stay under the $35-50 mark to limit any exposure.

A few companies have never released the game they promised, but none of mine thankfully. And there are rumbles on the horizon with a big multi-million dollar KS project sounding like it's in trouble. I'm not going to name it because a) It already has it's own thread b) it's only one of many troubled projects and c) this thread is more general. If it does collapse, it will shake the very foundation of KS projects.

Have your buying habits changed recently because of pre-orders and KS?

 

[Jezzah]

Mine certainly has changed.

Thankfully most have panned out fine. Wasteland 2, divinity: original sin and a few other minor rpgs. On the other hand on balance I was disappointed with ED. Having backed since alpha and reading all those discarded design decision topics at the time and seeing what we have now. Same with Star Citizen...just what the hell is with that thing.

Anyways on balance I'll only support those games that I feel can be made and importantly hold true (or improve) to what they state on KS. The money amount I'll risk has also gone down to about the price of a day one release game whereas before I wouldn't mind putting a few hundred into a project.

 

[Jenner]

I'ts been hit and miss for me with kickstarting games. I think I'm done with the whole thing. I was really into it for a couple of years, too. Sometimes the games just didn't satisfy (Wasteland 2). Other times I just found myself pledging way more money than I should have (You can guess which). Other times the games I backed I found myself increasingly less and less interested in even before they came out so that by the time they were released I didn't care.

 

[knowles2]

No I will still back some games that look interesting.

I just wish people actually listen to what dev say instead of taking their words and their adding their own imagination on top of them, which is where half the trouble come from.Also people tend not understand that sometimes even features that sound cool just doesn't work when play tested.

Plus many people have a poor understanding of just how expensive it is to produce a game, so developers also underestimate the costs as well.

 

[Jools]

I never ever pre order. It`s just silly, and it hurts the industry

I have backed quite a few KS projects though and for the most part I regret it. After great success of FTL I was enamoured with the idea, removing the pressure out of the devs seemed to be a good idea that will release creativity, but it turned out to work in the opposite way when it was not just 1-2 devs but old developers with studios (and debts)

the positive takeaway is that it once again, and it seems that this time for good, has showed me that old legends are just that... OLD

never again

 

[CmdrKull]

I never ever pre order. It`s just silly, and it hurts the industry

I have backed quite a few KS projects though and for the most part I regret it. After great success of FTL I was enamoured with the idea, removing the pressure out of the devs seemed to be a good idea that will release creativity, but it turned out to work in the opposite way when it was not just 1-2 devs but old developers with studios (and debts)

the positive takeaway is that it once again, and it seems that this time for good, has showed me that old legends are just that... OLD

never again

I don't know. Kickstarter basically allowed the TTLG gang to reunite and Underworld looks great. Everspace was the team behind all of the Galaxy On Fire games and Everspace is lots of fun. I think Elite turned out amazing, even if I'm not always happy with some of their additions to the game.

I think Kickstarter is perfect for anyone with a focused idea for a game but a shortfall of cash to make it. I think it is prone to abuse when the developer doesn't know what he wants to make but asks for money to explore his imagination. The thing is, they obviously don't sell themselves that way. I think I will continue backing projects, always for reasonable amounts and only for rojects that seem feasible (an advantage for me as a software engineer is that I can probably judge that correctly at least most of the time).

However if they ever, EVER, miss deadlines and add features in the same enthusiastic press release/newsletter, I'll seek a refund immediately.

On old legends:
There are plenty of great "old school developers" that never left the industry but either lost their edge or were buried in a monolithic corp for years and have had to start from scratch. Disparaging devs from a different era is foolish. Did you know that the people that make up Rockstar used to make games for the Amiga under Psygnosis? Can't recall if it was DMA or Reflections, but those same old school devs are still pushing boundaries.

 

[Insomnia]

I never pre-order and I never fund Kickstarter projects. I want to pay for finished products that I have a fair idea what I'm getting, if that makes sense. The reason for this is because I too have been burned many times, but also, I think it's way more healthy to know what I'm paying for. Horizons was the last product I pre-ordered.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I've never backed or preordered a game, and I never will.

Closest to a preorder I've done is buying the Half-life 2 bundle on release day. But the steam server's were so slow I still didn't get to play it for 3 days. Lol

Back in the day before YouTube and stuff, I wouldn't even buy a game if it didn't have a demo version.

These days, I either watch YouTube reviews or gameplay footage.

I've never been burned by a bad preorder or backing, because I've never done it, but I'm just not willing to hand over money for something that doesn't exist yet.

 

[Vasea Azure]

Some time ago I had no big issues pre-ordering a game, but last Mass Effect and Dragon Age hit me so hard that I think I`m done with pre-ordering anything at this point. AAA game companies with their fake "in-game" photos, day one dlc`s and stuff like that are too much. As far as backing crowd founded games - I backed Star Citizen so... never ever again.

 

[Ian Skippy]

1) I dont pre-order games on general principle, with the exception being FD stuff.
2) KS is for supporting tiny devs, and should IMHO best be seen as 'I'll assume this money is lost forever but maybe something cool might happen."

 

[AJW]

...
2) KS is for supporting tiny devs, and should IMHO best be seen as 'I'll assume this money is lost forever but maybe something cool might happen."

This. If a developer has a track record, they should be capable of attracting conventional investors. And if such a developer can't find investors, the project is probably too risky anyway. And the same thing applies to other types of KS project. Beware in particular any type of Kickstarter project that makes claims about developing new forms of technology (software or hardware) even if there is anything more than wishful thinking behind it (and often there isn't), there is a great deal of difference between having an idea and making a commercially viable product out of it. And if the Kickstarter is making claims about solving world hunger, producing 'free energy', or rendering existing technology obsolete, assume that it is either a scam or just plain nonsense until proven otherwise. I've seen Kickstarters that are apparently based on the principle that you can violate the laws of thermodynamics if you pretend they don't exist...

 

[Stigbob]

I'll happily pre-order at the basic price if I've either tried the demo or a mates copy and the gameplay has a good feel to it.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

I'll happily pre-order at the basic price if I've either tried the demo or a mates copy and the gameplay has a good feel to it.

You kinda cannot try a pre-ordered material because it is just that - a pay in advance for the project before release. So no mate's copy to try or demo, just pure gamble

The only one game I preordered was X-Rebirth, and I even didn't get burned so bad like the rest of the internet loudly voicing their unhappiness with the game - because I bought it kinda on "hey, thanks Egosoft for your previous titles which I got in the humble egosoft bundle for peanuts" premise

 

[PhanttoM]

My experiences with kickstarter/founder-style backing has been:

• Mechwarrior Online - Complete disaster. Have only played 2-3 hours.
• Star Citizen - Looked okay at first, then became a complete trainwreck.
• Elite Dangerous - Have logged over 3000 hours.​

My conclusion has been that I'll only back existing and established game developers, who have a history of releasing functional games — and avoid projects that start with: "I used to be a well known developer/game".

So stuff like games from Blizzard, CD Projekt Red and yes even Frontier would be something I'll happily back, preorder or support.

 

[Sysmon]

Kickstarters are hit and miss, it seems. I am pretty happy with how ED turned out despite the rampant self-righteous raging on this forum from backers with an overdeveloped sense of entitlement. For a while it seemed like everybody thought they were on the board and could assist development through micro-management. If that's the standard for kickstarted games, I hope the industry drops that funding source fast. Or that the developers at least don't listen but rather develop what they set out to do in the first place. If that doesn't rhyme with what they presented to potential backers, they need to work at how they present stuff.

I have backed a few movies as well, one a complete disaster, another turned out pretty well.

S

 

[Stigbob]

You kinda cannot try a pre-ordered material because it is just that - a pay in advance for the project before release. So no mate's copy to try or demo, just pure gamble

Which is exactly why I very rarely pre-order, try before you buy is the only ways to avoid buying dud's.

It's why I pre-ordered ED (demo) and subnautica (mates machine) which are both great, but avoided star citizen.

 

[ZeeWolf]

The Shenmue III campaign felt like it was pre-ordering years in advance. There was something just a bit dubious about it, the video made it look like Yu Suzuki had been wondering the streets of Japan in a drunken state and some Sony exec had pushed him into the back of a van and set up the Kickstarter page there and then.

The Kickstarter suggested a December 2017 release. Of course, nobody believed that, Kickstarter dates on video games are just for laughs right? Everyone knows you get more cash if you put an unrealistic date in. Why didn't Sony just back the entire project outright then? Because they didn't believe it was a good investment, solution get preorder cash up front.

They haven't shown a whole bunch of progress yet. The most recent update shows a single character waving his arms around. That's not to say the project is doomed just yet, but it's going to be very drawn out and I think people should scrutinize big players using Kick-starter (that includes Frontier).

As much as I enjoyed the Shenmue games and really want to see Ryu avenge his father or complete his kinder egg collection, I didn't back it. I'd rather just get it on release. These were hugely ambitious titles and cost no small amount of cash when they were originally made, there is no way they were going to just knock up a Shenmue game in a couple of years with a relatively small budget.

I can't help thinking that part of the reason some of these games ever got made originally was the very thing the creative developers claim is an issue. The simple fact an (evil) publisher was looming over them, keeping them in line and getting them to be realistic about budgets. No big project in history has casually fallen into place without some level of crunch, some push towards a deadline.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

My experiences with kickstarter/founder-style backing has been:

• Mechwarrior Online - Complete disaster. Have only played 2-3 hours.
• Star Citizen - Looked okay at first, then became a complete trainwreck.
• Elite Dangerous - Have logged over 3000 hours.​

My conclusion has been that I'll only back existing and established game developers, who have a history of releasing functional games — and avoid projects that start with: "I used to be a well known developer/game".

So stuff like games from Blizzard, CD Projekt Red and yes even Frontier would be something I'll happily back, preorder or support.

I've just picked up MWO. It has some striking similarities to Elite Dangerous. Lol
It's Faction Play is similar is utter nonsense to PowerPlay, it makes very little sense, and is basically another, longer way, to join a death match... and of course there's the forum salt levels, although compared to EDs forums, it's quite tame. Lol
There is about 50 threads about the overuse of LRMs(Long Range Missiles) though, which are only problem if you don't know how to deal with them, which I figured out in the first two hours.

I've only played for about 5-6 hours though, and I highly doubt it will last a great deal longer. Since it's 2014 release, there are still only 11 maps. And for an online deathmatch game, that's simply not good enough.
Unless the maps are dynamic (BF4) or enormous (Arma 3), then making maps is probably the easiest thing to add to a game like that. And all of the game modes simply end up being a team deathmatch in the middle of the map. Objectives are ignored, mostly. (Which is funny, cos I won us a few matches by doing them myself, with almost no resistance, and then flanking the other team. Double bonus! Lol)

I was hyped for SC, after watching a load of videos, but I absolutely will not give that company any money until the game is fully released. Assuming it ever is, or isn't a load of tripe.

I didn't even back Elite Dangerous, I heard about it being in development, and then promptly forgot about it for a few years, until I saw Zero Punctuations review of it. Lol
I got it on a steam sale.
(And I've played nearly 1000 hours!)

 

[Jools]

I don't know. Kickstarter basically allowed the TTLG gang to reunite and Underworld looks great. Everspace was the team behind all of the Galaxy On Fire games and Everspace is lots of fun. I think Elite turned out amazing, even if I'm not always happy with some of their additions to the game.

I think Kickstarter is perfect for anyone with a focused idea for a game but a shortfall of cash to make it. I think it is prone to abuse when the developer doesn't know what he wants to make but asks for money to explore his imagination. The thing is, they obviously don't sell themselves that way. I think I will continue backing projects, always for reasonable amounts and only for rojects that seem feasible (an advantage for me as a software engineer is that I can probably judge that correctly at least most of the time).

However if they ever, EVER, miss deadlines and add features in the same enthusiastic press release/newsletter, I'll seek a refund immediately.

On old legends:
There are plenty of great "old school developers" that never left the industry but either lost their edge or were buried in a monolithic corp for years and have had to start from scratch. Disparaging devs from a different era is foolish. Did you know that the people that make up Rockstar used to make games for the Amiga under Psygnosis? Can't recall if it was DMA or Reflections, but those same old school devs are still pushing boundaries.

DMA, loved some of their games on the amiga, well Digital Illusions is also still here, and so are many others... I don`t see them asking for money up front though. But i see Tim Shafer, Peter Molyneux, David Braben, Chris roberts, Neil Barnden, Brian Fargo.... All taking money up front and then making games with less features and polish and smart design than their games from the 90`s, releasing buggy messes... i thought that fallout 2 was a bug ridden game, but Wasteland is more buggy even after 2 years of patching and director`s cut re release, and the game... ten steps back

They all had their chance to prove themselves once again... They decided to go the cheap low effort route. Imo because they are old and cannot drop everything and work 24/7 on their dream project but have to be a businessman and think about the profit, and they have all overpromised because they are old legends with big egos

Call me an entitled brat. But my only sin here is that i have actually believed that they will deliver what they have promised.