Alien archeology and other mysteries: Thread 10 - The Canonn

[ArchEmperor]

Thargoids are the kindest, most gentle and trustworthy people I have ever met. Saying they are aggressive and warlike is racist!
My best friend is a Thargoid and he is the kindest and best friend I ever had.
( analogue to any other generic <they are so good ... > memes ).

... or maybe I am just lying.

 

[Crazy_Harvey]

I'm going off on a limb here, but say the thargoids hyperdrives still need their destination target to be un-obstructed in system. we could potentially find out the general area they are heading towards after visiting the barnacles.


Edit: Also if the threat of another alien race is to be believed, perhaps they saw a bigger war between humanity and the thargoids as beneficial to them. We most certainly have the attention of the thargoids as a bigger threat than they initially believed.

 

[Thatchinho]

Hey folks, a question on the UAs/UPs - was it ever determined what unit of distance they use?

 

[Han_Zen]

I'm going off on a limb here, but say the thargoids hyperdrives still need their destination target to be un-obstructed in system. we could potentially find out the general area they are heading towards after visiting the barnacles.


Edit: Also if the threat of another alien race is to be believed, perhaps they saw a bigger war between humanity and the thargoids as beneficial to them. We most certainly have the attention of the thargoids as a bigger threat than they initially believed.

As US are able to interdict in hyper space, I suspect the are able to manouver in there as well.
I think they just enter Hyperspace and then they can fly where they want, like we do in super cruice.

 

[Zieman]

As US are able to interdict in hyper space, I suspect the are able to manouver in there as well.
I think they just enter Hyperspace and then they can fly where they want, like we do in super cruice.

You ninja'd me before I started typing!

 

[bitstorm]

Do we think it's possible, with a bit of jiggery-pokery, to have a UP fire close enough to disable a Flowership?

I don't think there's much you could do with a UA? Doubt the audio changes?

 

[Crazy_Harvey]

As US are able to interdict in hyper space, I suspect the are able to manouver in there as well.
I think they just enter Hyperspace and then they can fly where they want, like we do in super cruice.

That could be true, however it can give those who are at the barnacle sites something else to check while they're there. I'm currently out in the california nebula but when i get back i'll probably check myself.

 

[Thatchinho]

Hey guys, I've started something with the alien ruins and decided to apply the Discrete Log Problem to the relics.
Basic information 36 lights
How is this number helpful?
36 mod 3 = 0
36 mod 6 = 0
...
36 mod 36 = 0

So some people are convinced that the answer encoding is base 3. What is the problem with base 3? Well, quite frankly it's too primitive. Certainly you can represent a number 0-7 but this isn't nearly enough to represent an entire message by itself. Since 36 mod 8 != 0 we can safely rule out ascii encoding. This means we have realistically only a couple of encoding methods. The simplest way I think to solve this is to use is hexatrigesimal which is 6^2.

The beauty about hexatrigesimal (radix 36) is that data can be represented A-Z and 0-9. This type of encoding would be perfect for say the encoding of a system name. The only issue I am having is the transposition of the lights into bits. Each frame has 36 lights and there are quite a few transitions. I think the simplest way to format these bits is in binary from left to right, top to bottom. Does anyone have the full frame by frame transposition of this data? I am by no means saying that this is the answer to the mystery but it makes the most sense.
-Void

Like what you're doing here, and kudos for looking at it.

Not sure it stacks up though - if it was a code then yeah, it would make total sense, but how could an alien race that's been dead for several million years be encoding our English names for systems?

IMHO the situation is much more complex - the triangular patterns are the Guardian's written language (glyphs).

From the lore the glyphs have the history of the writing system embedded in them.

There's 3 versions at the sites:
- On the obelisks (most complex - 6 grids of small triangles)
- On the relic (intermediate complexity - 2 grids of small triangles)
- On the base of the relic towers (least complex - 1 grid with 1 large triangles and 8 small triangles)

The roots of it are in a sign language used for silent communication when hunting. Guardians had 8 digits in total, so I suspect that's what the small triangles reflect in the least complex version.

The 1 large triangle & 8 small triangles system obviously quickly hits limitations in the number of concepts it can encode, and I suspect that then as the language developed the large triangle was replaced with small triangles (dramatically increasing the number of concepts which can be encoded in a single grid) and then further grids were added.

So in summary I think we're looking at translating a language rather than breaking a code.

 

[Thatchinho]

I never spent much time scanning Gammas, so I get lost more easily when trying to figure out which group is which (though I'm getting more practice )

Scanned just under 50% of Eta Carina systems, 617 to go Probably should just be searching around existing ruins but hey, this exploration elite won't make itself.

Arrived at Eta Carina late yesterday so have only scanned a few. Happy to have some assigned to me to scan if you want? Or I can start looking at non-Eta Carina systems?

Ones I've checked so far:

Spoiler

Blae Eork RM-C c29-3
Eta Carina Sector LC-M b7-0
Eta Carina Sector IH-M b7-0
Eta Carina Sector EB-O b6-0
Eta Carina Sector IH-M b7-0
Eta Carina Sector KM-W d1-2
Eta Carina Sector GM-M b7-0
Eta Carina Sector PI-T c3-1
Eta Carina Sector ER-M b7-0
Eta Carina Sector PI-T c3-7
Eta Carina Sector PI-T c3-6
Eta Carina Sector PI-T c3-5
Eta Carina Sector HX-K b8-0
Eta Carina Sector GX-K b8-0
Eta Carina Sector LX-U d2-18
Eta Carina Sector OI-T c3-10
Eta Carina Sector HR-W d1-12
Eta Carina Sector JS-T c3-10
Eta Carina Sector JS-T c3-8
Eta Carina Sector QZ-O b6-0
Eta Carina Sector QZ-O b6-1
Eta Carina Sector JS-T c3-8
Eta Carina Sector JS-T c3-7

 

[Factabulous]

Arrived at Eta Carina late yesterday so have only scanned a few. Happy to have some assigned to me to scan if you want? Or I can start looking at non-Eta Carina systems?

Coordinating searches is just waaay too hard - since a typical system scan might only take 1 minute the overhead of checking if it's required from a list seems just too high to me

It might make sense to look in Blae Eork (as we know one system was in that sector), if you want to? I tried bookmarking the three 'local' ruin systems last night and wasn't convinced there was any part of Eta Carina worth searching more than another. Also feel free to look around Eta Carina if you like, I've made my ESDM flight profile public: https://www.edsm.net/en/user/flight-logs/id/17280/cmdr/Factabulous so you can check which one's I've done, though it 'may not be worth it'™

Edit: 'just' pages 172 onwards of the flight log in Eta Carina!

 

[publicstaticvoid]

Like what you're doing here, and kudos for looking at it.

Not sure it stacks up though - if it was a code then yeah, it would make total sense, but how could an alien race that's been dead for several million years be encoding our English names for systems?

IMHO the situation is much more complex - the triangular patterns are the Guardian's written language (glyphs).

From the lore the glyphs have the history of the writing system embedded in them.

There's 3 versions at the sites:
- On the obelisks (most complex - 6 grids of small triangles)
- On the relic (intermediate complexity - 2 grids of small triangles)
- On the base of the relic towers (least complex - 1 grid with 1 large triangles and 8 small triangles)

The roots of it are in a sign language used for silent communication when hunting. Guardians had 8 digits in total, so I suspect that's what the small triangles reflect in the least complex version.

The 1 large triangle & 8 small triangles system obviously quickly hits limitations in the number of concepts it can encode, and I suspect that then as the language developed the large triangle was replaced with small triangles (dramatically increasing the number of concepts which can be encoded in a single grid) and then further grids were added.

So in summary I think we're looking at translating a language rather than breaking a code.

Well certainly I agree, but what I am looking for isn't names but rather the universal language, Mathematics. I suspect that each pattern represents a distance element similar to the UP. As opposed to being considered as one element it could be that each pattern represent 2 elements to derive a coordinate along the XYZ axis or even fractions. You have both Left and right triangles. I've spent the last few hours burying my head in these binary representations. Originally I suspected the sequence 0100 represented a decimal. But began thinking about it and how much of a cluster 'f' that would be. As opposed to thinking of it like a decimal I am now considering the 3 patterns representing 2 numbers (left and right). Placing the left as the numerator and the right as the denominator might give us a fraction that equates to X, Y, and Z respectively.

 

[publicstaticvoid]

State 91:
Ob1: 83339 | 155834
Ob2: 259194 | 217349
Ob3: 140619 | 696614

Possibilities (there needs to be some subtraction involved if these are indeed coordinates)
83339 - 155834 = -72495
259194 - 217349 = 41845
140619 - 696614 = -555995

Unfortunately this is not enough because these numbers don't seem realistic as coordinates in thier current state.
Possibly it needs to be reduced using some static variable: The static glyph would translate to
148223 | 211894 but using these numbers to reduce these values would result in rather small numbers.
The only other possibility I can think of is the fact that they use triangles everywhere, maybe divide these numbers by 3?

Ob1: -24165
Ob2: 13948.3333333
Obj3: -185331.666667

However, I'm not sure these are valid coordinates. Maybe reduction by the static value should occur before subtraction.

 

[CMDR CRUZ]

I did the first 4 sequences, I have so many left. Basically this is what I got. Instead of individually cluttering everything with the binary representation I have it formatted 36Radix(10Radix)
I got the following:

S0:
D18SKOE(29582730158)
...

Correction: 29582730158 base 10 = DL8SKOE base 36 (still Greek to me)

 

[Han_Zen]

That could be true, however it can give those who are at the barnacle sites something else to check while they're there. I'm currently out in the california nebula but when i get back i'll probably check myself.

Always good to check. I've been wrong before.

 

[Thatchinho]

Well certainly I agree, but what I am looking for isn't names but rather the universal language, Mathematics.

Ah, got you!

I suspect that each pattern represents a distance element similar to the UP. As opposed to being considered as one element it could be that each pattern represent 2 elements to derive a coordinate along the XYZ axis or even fractions. You have both Left and right triangles. I've spent the last few hours burying my head in these binary representations. Originally I suspected the sequence 0100 represented a decimal. But began thinking about it and how much of a cluster 'f' that would be. As opposed to thinking of it like a decimal I am now considering the 3 patterns representing 2 numbers (left and right). Placing the left as the numerator and the right as the denominator might give us a fraction that equates to X, Y, and Z respectively.

Yeah, I see what you're saying on the X, Y, Z. How are you seeing the numbers represented within each individual section? If you're not already, it might be worth considering that to a certain extent the number representation might be abstract patterns (as in our 2-9) rather than logical representation.

Obvious numerical bases for the abstract patterns are 8 (total digits on hands), multiples of 3 (counting sections of digits, assuming one opposable digit, nothing to say how many joints/finger sections), or {multiples of 3}*4 (counting using a combination of sections of digits on one hand and digits on the other hand).

Good luck - hope you can find something!

 

[chagnampra]

Don't know if this means anything (other than a bug) but I was flying in my Corvette around Maia in supercruise earlier - looking for a distress call threat 0 USS - when I suddenly suffered module damage. There was no warning, just a confirmation message: "( ) internal damage". I remained in supercruise and checked my modules - there was massive damage throughout my ship! I had not been interdicted and had not left supercruise. Weird... It could be nothing but a bug, but I am curious to see if anyone else has experienced this. It happened close to Palin's base planet.

CMDR Ed Geiger

 

[publicstaticvoid]

The numbers I am seeing are from top to bottom left to right. Each triangle is either colored or hollow, 1/0 respectively. You have both Left facing and right facing triangles. If you start at the top as you go through each layer of the glyph you add each bit respectively to the left or right bit string.

 

[Thatchinho]

State 91:
Ob1: 83339 | 155834
Ob2: 259194 | 217349
Ob3: 140619 | 696614

Possibilities (there needs to be some subtraction involved if these are indeed coordinates)
83339 - 155834 = -72495
259194 - 217349 = 41845
140619 - 696614 = -555995

Unfortunately this is not enough because these numbers don't seem realistic as coordinates in thier current state.
Possibly it needs to be reduced using some static variable: The static glyph would translate to
148223 | 211894 but using these numbers to reduce these values would result in rather small numbers.
The only other possibility I can think of is the fact that they use triangles everywhere, maybe divide these numbers by 3?

Ob1: -24165
Ob2: 13948.3333333
Obj3: -185331.666667

However, I'm not sure these are valid coordinates. Maybe reduction by the static value should occur before subtraction.

Need to convert for distance units. Ours use lightyears, theirs would be something else. Could be anything.

 

[publicstaticvoid]

Example:
<0 1>
<1 0>
<1 <1 1> 0>
<0 <0 1> 1>
<0 <1 1> 0>
<0 <1 0> 0>
<1<0 1> 0>
<0 <0 1> 1>
<1<0 1> 0>
<1 1>
<1 0>

Left side:
011100010110001011
Right side:
101011100010111010

 

[publicstaticvoid]

Well I believe sol is 0,0,0 so it might have to be converted to A* being 0,0,0. And light speed is universal