General / Off-Topic London Under Siege

[verminstar]

Verminstar, one of these Jihadis was on national television on a program called "Jihadis next door". He unfurled an ISIS flag in a public park, in front of TV cameras, that was broadcast over the nation. If Jihadis are cleverly evading the authorities by appearing in documentaries about jihadis with the word jihadi in the title then there is something wrong with the authorities, not the legal framework the authorities operate under. (Incidentally, the fact the authorities failed to get this idiot before he acted casts a lot of doubt on their claim they foil dozens of terrorist plots all the time.)

Legal experts have said there is nothing in the human rights laws that is preventing the authorities from acting on terrorism. Nothing. If the police believe that you're up to no good they can arrest and investigate.

Terrorism is already illegal, and nowhere in the HRA does it say that it's ok to be a terrorist. New laws on the matter just won't do anything:

https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/871426882385870848

They need resources, and better community policing. Not more powers.

So maybe I should support sinn feins best friend Mr Corbyn ye think? Just one day left, gotta support someone and TM is the one speaking a language I like to hear while Corbyn appears to have the memory of a goldfish during interviews, and has been friends with those I deem my most bitter enemies fer years.

New laws are about as effective as boots on the ground...not very much but she has to be seen to be doing something. The softly softly approach of other politicians simply hasnt worked and never will because if someone like me regards the current laws a joke, then how ye think a jihadist sees them?

Your lot had their chance and blew it in pretty spectacular fashion...time to change the tempo because our police are about as useful as a chocolate teacup. Not their fault though...their hands are tied by the politically correct brigade ^

 

[Soopyyy]

Well if the police had turned up in the middle of that documentary and carted him off you would have been the first one on this forum memoaning his 'human rights' and harping on about how evil all us British are for being anti-islamic.

Did you just read the bits you wanted? He very clearly stated that nothing about Human Rights impinges upon any law enforcement from investigating and prosecuting terrorists.
You're being conned into relieving yourselves of fundamental Human Rights (that your ancestors actually laid out for us all, after fighting a terrible war against people who would do what the government now proposes), so that the powers that be can better manipulate the population for their own gain.

 

[verminstar]

It depends on how you go about it. Would you give up the freedoms and rights you currently enjoy to allow the government more control over your life and personal details?
Realistically, as has been stated, the actual risk to the everyday person is quite low. Yes, what happened was utterly horrific, but look at the numbers you aren't actually in any more danger than what you would be driving to work, yet we're not terrified of driving to work. If you give up your liberties, the terrorists have won.

The freedom and rights I already enjoy? Hmm how to put this without causing offence...I been checking the underside of my car fer 20 years...every single day with a little telescopic mirror and have armour plates welded into the floor. Ive lost two family members to car bombs in the past so to claim that terrorism doesnt already affect my life wouldnt be entirely accurate.

Apart from that, there will always be a way fer the establishment to track me, although my mistrust for them means I conduct a lotta my affairs using cash only, and I go to great lengths to stay under the radar as it were. Ill just find ways around the new laws...Ive certainly lived through worse laws like internment and the shoot to kill policy in the 80s, as well as frequent military checkpoints and town centres closed off after 9pm. Ive lived through all of that...how much worse can it get? I use a different name on fakebook because of what I do there and who I speak with...registered not at my home or even with my own email address. Thats a weed thing so dont worry, its not violent in any shape or form but the spooks would still use it against me if they could. Thats what they do.

Anyway...this aint the same thing but the argument yer using really doesnt affect me as much as ye think it might. Ive had a lot more time to get used to the idea...decades of time actually and Ive seen enough not to trust the government any more than I trust the religious nutjobs. I can support them but I dont have to trust them and Ill figure out ways around their laws...I always do eventually ^

 

[lysan]

The freedom and rights I already enjoy? Hmm how to put this without causing offence...I been checking the underside of my car fer 20 years...every single day with a little telescopic mirror and have armour plates welded into the floor. Ive lost two family members to car bombs in the past so to claim that terrorism doesnt already affect my life wouldnt be entirely accurate.

Apart from that, there will always be a way fer the establishment to track me, although my mistrust for them means I conduct a lotta my affairs using cash only, and I go to great lengths to stay under the radar as it were. Ill just find ways around the new laws...Ive certainly lived through worse laws like internment and the shoot to kill policy in the 80s, as well as frequent military checkpoints and town centres closed off after 9pm. Ive lived through all of that...how much worse can it get? I use a different name on fakebook because of what I do there and who I speak with...registered not at my home or even with my own email address. Thats a weed thing so dont worry, its not violent in any shape or form but the spooks would still use it against me if they could. Thats what they do.

Anyway...this aint the same thing but the argument yer using really doesnt affect me as much as ye think it might. Ive had a lot more time to get used to the idea...decades of time actually and Ive seen enough not to trust the government any more than I trust the religious nutjobs. I can support them but I dont have to trust them and Ill figure out ways around their laws...I always do eventually ^

I know where you're coming from, and you're not free my friend.

However that doesn't mean we need to give more rights away to any government. Even in the "green" zone in Baghdad with all the security and check points you were not safe.

 

[verminstar]

I know where you're coming from, and you're not free my friend.

However that doesn't mean we need to give more rights away to any government. Even in the "green" zone in Baghdad with all the security and check points you were not safe.

Am well aware how unsafe Baghdad was even with all the security in place...but thats another story fer another time I think.

I dont support them taking away more rights, but I do support them taking a much tougher stance against them. Corbyn is worse, hes in bed with republicans fer decades...worst kept secret ever hes outta the frying pan and into the fire he will sell us down the river first chance he gets.

That doesnt really leave a lotta options if ye support brexit. The lib dems will legalize weed but the price fer that is staying in the EU...business as usual then nothing changes there. UKIP are an embarrassment to themselves...they served their purpose they should pss of now while they still have some dignity left...arguable this one but whatever.

In terms of who Im supposed to support, there really aint a lotta options left. Gimma an option of a politician who will deliver on what they promise, take a hard line with those who seek to harm us as a nation, get us ouit of the EU and maybe, just maybe spend some effort on our nhs, schools and services. Seems we can have some of those but not all, so its a bit like choosing the lesser evil.

Its almost like the Trump circus the yanks had to endure recently...whoever I vote for, Im not gonna like them but what alternative is there? Ill support the DUP here tomorrow even though I hate the very ground they walk on simply because the alternatives are worse ^

 

[FuzzySpider]

Well if the police had turned up in the middle of that documentary and carted him off you would have been the first one on this forum memoaning his 'human rights' and harping on about how evil all us British are for being anti-islamic.

Absolutely ridiculous argument.

First off it is merely an accusation that acknowledges the thing I am accused of hasn't even happened.

Secondly, ok, let's assume it's 100% true - so the hell what? If the police did arrest him, and I protested waving a giant pink placard saying "I hate Britain! Free terrorists!" with willy's all over it, would the police just let him go?

Is that how you think the law works? Us violent pacifists make demands and the police just jump to it?

Are you are aware there is an actual legal process to this?

So maybe I should support sinn feins best friend Mr Corbyn ye think? Just one day left, gotta support someone and TM is the one speaking a language I like to hear while Corbyn appears to have the memory of a goldfish during interviews, and has been friends with those I deem my most bitter enemies fer years.

May talks nonsense though. The policing issue is mostly a lack of resources, not a lack of laws. The person responsible for that is Theresa May herself.

The softly softly approach of other politicians simply hasnt worked and never will because if someone like me regards the current laws a joke, then how ye think a jihadist sees them?

This is because you aren't in the legal profession and don't actually know what the law is. May has quite literally made laws similar to China in how invasive they are.

Your lot had their chance and blew it in pretty spectacular fashion...time to change the tempo because our police are about as useful as a chocolate teacup. Not their fault though...their hands are tied by the politically correct brigade ^

Erm... us anti-austerity people who "cried wolf" about cutting resources?

And "had our chance"? Really? Theresa May has been home secretary for 6 years then prime minister for one.

Yet the left are being blamed? Seriously?

 

[lysan]

Am well aware how unsafe Baghdad was even with all the security in place...but thats another story fer another time I think.

I dont support them taking away more rights, but I do support them taking a much tougher stance against them. Corbyn is worse, hes in bed with republicans fer decades...worst kept secret ever hes outta the frying pan and into the fire he will sell us down the river first chance he gets.

That doesnt really leave a lotta options if ye support brexit. The lib dems will legalize weed but the price fer that is staying in the EU...business as usual then nothing changes there. UKIP are an embarrassment to themselves...they served their purpose they should pss of now while they still have some dignity left...arguable this one but whatever.

In terms of who Im supposed to support, there really aint a lotta options left. Gimma an option of a politician who will deliver on what they promise, take a hard line with those who seek to harm us as a nation, get us ouit of the EU and maybe, just maybe spend some effort on our nhs, schools and services. Seems we can have some of those but not all, so its a bit like choosing the lesser evil.

Its almost like the Trump circus the yanks had to endure recently...whoever I vote for, Im not gonna like them but what alternative is there? Ill support the DUP here tomorrow even though I hate the very ground they walk on simply because the alternatives are worse ^

I can't advise you who to vote for, follow your political heart and stick with it.
I voted for Trump for one reason only, the 2ndA. The rest will be a case by case evaluation me thinks.

 

[Minonian]

While not remotely condoning football hooliganism I have to say that the exchange ...

"This if for Allah!"

"F you I'm Millwall"

Did make me laugh out loud on the train this morning.

When 2 faith encounters...

Well if we wake up to Jeremy Corbyn as prime minister.......

Than you are lucky.

 

[verminstar]

Absolutely ridiculous argument.

First off it is merely an accusation that acknowledges the thing I am accused of hasn't even happened.

Secondly, ok, let's assume it's 100% true - so the hell what? If the police did arrest him, and I protested waving a giant pink placard saying "I hate Britain! Free terrorists!" with willy's all over it, would the police just let him go?

Is that how you think the law works? Us violent pacifists make demands and the police just jump to it?

Are you are aware there is an actual legal process to this?



May talks nonsense though. The policing issue is mostly a lack of resources, not a lack of laws. The person responsible for that is Theresa May herself.



This is because you aren't in the legal profession and don't actually know what the law is. May has quite literally made laws similar to China in how invasive they are.



Erm... us anti-austerity people who "cried wolf" about cutting resources?

And "had our chance"? Really? Theresa May has been home secretary for 6 years then prime minister for one.

Yet the left are being blamed? Seriously?

I never said the sunshine shines outta her backside...but the alternatives are worse. Can ye give me an alternative or just slate stuff I already know?

No...the establishment had their chance to actually listen without being judgemental...they failed miserably and now we in a right old pickle. I dont blame the left fer causing this, I blame them fer not listening and attempting to fix the wrongs years ago. I blame them fer this ridiculous nanny state we appear to live in...the political correctness which has caused more issues than it solves. Thats what I blame the left for and barring having a pop at TM fer all the past stuff, ye also cant give a viable alternative. Ye didnt even try.

So its back to choosing the lesser of multiple evils and your argument is about as effective as peeing into the wind on a stormy night. I need solutions not history lessons and ye dont appear to have any...just more salt which really isnt that helpful ^

 

[verminstar]

I can't advise you who to vote for, follow your political heart and stick with it.
I voted for Trump for one reason only, the 2ndA. The rest will be a case by case evaluation me thinks.

I quite openly supported Trump even though hes more comedian than politician. Weve had the establishment fer so long telling us how to live and what we can and cannot say that Trump was a breath of fresh air. The very thing the establishment hates gets my vote every time but hey...hes not my problem cos Im not a yank and theres 4k miles of ocean between us. I hope you guys weather the storm, what with half the country now legalizing the sacred herb which inspires us no end over here and motivates us to push harder at our weak as water politicians ^

If he presses the big red button, then none of us will be alive long enough to regret putting him in power anyway ^

 

[Pyrotiger]

I never said the sunshine shines outta her backside...but the alternatives are worse. Can ye give me an alternative or just slate stuff I already know?

No...the establishment had their chance to actually listen without being judgemental...they failed miserably and now we in a right old pickle. I dont blame the left fer causing this, I blame them fer not listening and attempting to fix the wrongs years ago. I blame them fer this ridiculous nanny state we appear to live in...the political correctness which has caused more issues than it solves. Thats what I blame the left for and barring having a pop at TM fer all the past stuff, ye also cant give a viable alternative. Ye didnt even try.

So its back to choosing the lesser of multiple evils and your argument is about as effective as peeing into the wind on a stormy night. I need solutions not history lessons and ye dont appear to have any...just more salt which really isnt that helpful ^

Given your past posts, just looking at social issues, the fact that you see how the establishment has failed people and society...the cuts in benefits...I am very surprised that you wouldn't support Corbyn but would support Trump. I guess it's the Daily Mail propaganda about him being pro-Ira because he talked to terrorists. Surely then John Major and the Conservatives are pro-Ira, too, because behind the scenes they did plenty of talking! However, each to their own, and I guess some mud sticks.

Political Correctness was not caused by the Left. It was caused by certain lines of thinking that ran through the Middle Classes...and saying that these are a product of Leftist thinking is just absurd.

Wider point - I'm surprised that so many people who do not stand to gain from the Conservatives are dim enough to support the Conservatives.

 

[verminstar]

Given your past posts, just looking at social issues, the fact that you see how the establishment has failed people and society...the cuts in benefits...I am very surprised that you wouldn't support Corbyn but would support Trump. I guess it's the Daily Mail propaganda about him being pro-Ira because he talked to terrorists. Surely then John Major and the Conservatives are pro-Ira, too, because behind the scenes they did plenty of talking! However, each to their own, and I guess some mud sticks.

Political Correctness was not caused by the Left. It was caused by certain lines of thinking that ran through the Middle Classes...and saying that these are a product of Leftist thinking is just absurd.

Wider point - I'm surprised that so many people who do not stand to gain from the Conservatives are dim enough to support the Conservatives.

Bit like accusing the right wing fer all the issues? The middle and upper classes are the establishment...its their system designed to cater fer them while keeping the boot on the lower classes. Whatever ideals labour used to preach in the past, the tone has changed somewhat in recent times.

As fer the daily mail jibe...is that fuzzy in disguise? I dont read that paper but tis good to see that you must read it if ye know whats on those pages and I dont...ye sorta lost me when ye made that quite unnecessary remark. Hell even Ive spoken to republican terrorists...my best friend who I mentioned yesterday used to be one of them who I met while on remand. Lets just say I knew about Corbyn little meetings long before the daily whatever learned about it...ergo why I mentioned it being one the worst kept secrets the man has in his closet. And Im sure as hell not pro IRA so I fail to see the connection.

Im anti establishment but not stupid either. I dont like trump but were I a yank, I would have voted for him because Clinton was worse. Its like the tories...I despise the very ground they walk on but whats the alternative? I despise the DUP here but without them in power, Sinn Fein gain more power and thats just not something I can live with, so what choice do we have? The rest either want a united ireland or keep us in the EU so what choice is there between bad and worse? Maybe dont vote at all? Same argument that one less vote fer the bad means more chances for the worse so not voting isnt an option either.

As yet, not one person has been remotely able to give me a viable alternative, just raking over all the bad points while offering no solutions whatsoever. I still believe 100% that all of this could have been avoided by the left who just wouldnt listen...they still wont listen because hey, those tactics have served them so well over the last 12 months...havent they?

 

[shreddog]

A female nursery worker in London has been slashed with a knife by three women who were shouting “Allah will get you”. :S

 

[Patrick_68000]

No, it's the exact opposite. Much of what The Bad Guys want is the removal of the rights we enjoy, those rights are what make us the people we are. Removing Patrick68000's rights would not stop anything, but it will make a jihadist very happy, and allow your leader to read your e-mail. better hope you've never said anything bad about Mr Macron...

They are. Writing new laws to persecute religious people is a very dangerous path to take. It's been tried a few times throughout history and it never ended well..
Instead of nut job extremists being shooty/stabby. You end up forcing the hand of an entire population of people who will want to fight for the right to exist as they have done for centuries.

Nobody is persecuted. Everyone has the right to practice their religion in an official place of worship or at home. To pray in a public space like a park, a parking lot or other public places is prohibited. There is no violation of human rights here (in France). I do not think that Ms. May wants to ban the religion

 

[Patrick_68000]

Against an entire religion, I agree but this is just a violent off shoot of a religion much in the same way those cults in the US do not represent the normal christian faith. Nobody from a christian background lost much sleep when those cults were literally torn apart, so why would normal muslims be overly worried about going after their extremeists? They should be helping if nothing else.

The extremist mosques must be closed. And the extremist Imams must be returned to their countries of origin if they are foreigners or placed under surveillance with prohibition of preaching if they are British

 

[Patrick_68000]

A female nursery worker in London has been slashed with a knife by three women who were shouting “Allah will get you”. :S

Another sad news here

 

[Pyrotiger]

The middle and upper classes are the establishment...its their system designed to cater fer them while keeping the boot on the lower classes.

Can agree to a large extent on this.

The Daily Mail 'remark' wasn't a 'jibe' or a go at you at all. If you want to see it like that, which is a shame since the majority of your posts I quite agree with or respect, go ahead.

 

[Herbrand]

A female nursery worker in London has been slashed with a knife by three women who were shouting “Allah will get you”. :S

Happy Ramadan, everyone!

 

[Para Handy]

..............

The Daily Mail ..............

.

Some languages have a silent letter others have letters that are not written but are pronounced (Alba pronounced Alaba for example), the Daily Mail goes one better by having a whole word "silent" in both forms but clearly existing in between Daily and Mail - and that is HATE.

(13 pages today dedicated to personal attacks on Corbyn and his team. - Why? Nobody reading that rag needs to be converted, they are all Tories to the core anyway.)

 

[Pyrotiger]

13 pages show how desperate they are, and their fear.

If Labour were half-decent, this would be a landslide.