General / Off-Topic London Under Siege
- Thread starter gary.brain
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verminstar
Banned
Apologies...Im on eggshells today...heads up me rektum with this bloody election that nobody wants. Its different here because this is our 4th election in less than 12 months...we have no executive and are facing imminent home rule if our useless politicians cant hammer out an agreement which is highly unlikely.
I was perhaps a bit too touchy with that...apologies offered. Sometimes the filter between brain and fingers gets a bit pete tong ^
It's quite sad to watch a person who has been abused by the police in his youth, easily supporting authoritarian measures and giving up essential liberties. And for what? A marginal threat, really low on the list of things that cause injuries and fatalities.
The conservative brain is ruled by fear and motivated by a burning desire to be made to feel safe.
I'd feel pretty safe in Finland.
And yet, our local nationalist-populists do not. You see, these days Finland is not a mono culture of white male privilege. Instead there's feminists of all stripes, gay's who can marry each other, and those dark skinned refugees. It's apparently terrifying and wrong, and hence we've gotten a surge in racist idiocy bubbling to the surface, especially among the older and less educated males, and in general among the people who actually encounter not-lily-white people the least, or not at all in their daily lives.
If you lived here, you'd probably be agitating about refugees, and supporting an MEP who wants them all kept in barracks, in the middle of a forest.
verminstar
Banned
Id swap places with them in an instant...nice little log cabin in the woods would suit me down to the ground. I could indulge my love of horticulture of exotic flowers in relative peace and quiet without bein paranoid about the helicopters with heat sensors doin flyovers twice a week.
And before ye think Im bein funny, Im not...Im deadly serious. Thats why Id seriously emigrate to Canada in a heartbeat if I could, and take my daughter with me...hell it was originally her idea to begin with.
Ye think its fun livin like this? Yer becoming just as bitter as me...dont, it doesnt suit ye. Yer not stuck, ye could leave anytime...thats not a choice I have so if yer unhappy, then walk away. Im assuming ye got skills and bits of paper to say yer really smart, so whats stopping ye?
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You misunderstood me a little. You probably would indeed like it here. Finland is very nice and peaceful, despite the current bad government.
I meant that we still get people hating on "foreigners" despite the fact that the place is incredibly white. There is no low enough number of immigrants and refugees that some types won't start screaming about it. I'm really embarassed by our "Finland first!" Crowd.
I am indeed unhappy with "out Tories" and "our UKIP", but I'm doing something about it. I'm getting more and more involved in politics, and I will not stand for it if I see racist harrassment in the streets. I have a sharp tongue, and I'm willing to risk some lumps for what I believe in.
Minonian
Banned
If after 6 years there is no signs of change, the situation getting better? Than the whole thing what they did is useless.
You cannot wait wonders, but if there is no signs of improvement?
verminstar
Banned
Good fer you...no sarcasm in that, mean it genuinely. Ive done cross community work here in the past...not the same thing granted but it sorta was. Trying to build bridges with the other side sorta thing...turned out to be a waste of time but I tried nonetheless.
Ah man Id so love to have that little log cabin though...Ive lost faith in the world just wanna walk away cos I literally dont care anymore. Rapidly getting to the point where Id be just as happy watching the world burn...it sorta deserves to burn now. Some of you lot have no idea just how fortunate ye are and its still not good enough...we so come from different worlds ^
Sorry? No signs of improvement? Wasted six years? Well if that was the case we wouldn't have:
record numbers of people flooding to the U.K for work
record numbers of employment within the U.K.
a slowly diminishing welfare bill.
continued forecasts for economic growth (despite hugely exaggerated claims by the remain in Europe campaign that the economy would tank 30secs after a leave vote).
The reason we were forced into austerity was the complete (and for me criminal) and utter ruination of this country by the former labour government. They squandered the wealth of a generation on vanity projects, they encouraged a whole generation to stay at home and claim benefits and then flooded the country with cheap immigrant workers saying the job market needed them, you can't blame the immigrants for wanting a better life they were conned as much as anyone else.
This us country has struggled through the last few years and light could be seen at the end of the tunnel. Unfortunately it's looking like that light was the firebrands and pitch forks of the unionist loony left and this country is doomed.
Honest question: do you seriously think that the vast majority of the supporters of your local nationalist parties do so because of hatred toward people of a different skin color or people that come from another country?
Personally, none of the like-minded people I know holds this idea.
Race is irrelevant. We’re all one race - that’s obvious to anybody with half a brain. We’re all part of the same organism; the truth is, that many people in the West feel that we are being invaded (emphasis mine) by a religion and a culture whose values we totally reject, not because we’re racists but because the values themselves are degrading and offensive.
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Cultural prejudice (that "religion" stuff) is no more noble than insane theories about races. I'm glad you're rejecting those.
As for the question early on, here's what I think (based on studies and some anecdotal stuff). Most people who don't meet and interact with people who look different, will be suspicious about them. Some will feel very uncomfortable, unsafe, etc. The more they get used to living with foreign born neighbors and such, the more those fears and prejudices go away.
Finland had a big recession in the early nineties. A ton of austerity, personal bankruptcies, poverty, education cuts etc. Those who never recovered, were bitter, and it's easy to direct them towards and enemy from the outside. Somebody to blame. Things got worse due to social media and easy access to discussion boards. It made it much easier to spread lies, painting refugees as lazy moochers, or dangerous terrorist sleepers. To paint "polish plumbers" as the reason why they don't have a job, and dark skinned immigrants as the reason they don't have a girlfriend (coming over here, taking our women).
Add in the electoral success of the nationalist populists, and suddenly these people got the feeling that they represent the majority. That it's ok to be openly prejudiced and outright racist in public.
It's only some 10 - 15% of the population that has truly sunk into this, but they are not getting better. They live in an echo chamber with other racists, and they keep getting worse.
verminstar
Banned
Pretty much this. Thats why it is so offensive to be branded racist when thats clearly not the case...thats arguably the reason why such an offensive remark is used...to shut down any possible discussion because they are either incapable, or just blinded by their own beliefs and point blank refuse to accept any other opinions.
Its been said before that many of us literally dont care about where they came from or what colour they are...its their religion thats the issue here which doesnt instantly mean racist. If they were born and bred here and held those same beliefs, would that mean if ye didnt like that in our community that we are racist? No...it doesnt. But that wont stop the lefties from using the accusation anyway...I think we all know the real reasons why ^
verminstar
Banned
It only becomes a problem because one side wont discuss it. Ignoring the issues wont mean they go away, they just fester into hate because people dont like being ignored. Doesnt really matter if you dont think theres an issue, others do and by not engaging with that, it creates an even bigger issue that wouldnt exist at all if everyone were to sit down and talk about it without resorting to name calling and stigmatizing the issue with racism claims.
Does racism exist? Yes it does and thats unfortunate but it wasnt always this way. It only came worse because of the reason stated above...ergo why the left are being blamed by the right ergo this creates further divisions and the concerns turn to hate. People are not born haters...circumstances create hate and the circumstances for the original issue lies at the feet of the left.
You and others can argue till yer blue in the face to the contrary, but thats what I genunely 100% believe...and from the people I speak to, that view is shared by a great many. Are we all wrong or is it possible that we might actually have a valid point?
No we dont...according to the left. Ye see where this goes? Down the rabbit hole once more ^
Racists are idiots, period! we need to put that aside when we talk about conflicts between people.
Muslims are not a race
Christians is not a race
Liberals is not a race
Gun owners are not a race
Right wingers is not a race
What they are, in most cases people with opinions whom are locked into a certain paradigm how to live their lives.
We can discuss that, but we need to PLEASE leave the "paint job" out of the discussion.
What issues? What I spoke of was prejudice. The people who don't actually meet any immigrants or refugees in their daily lives, are the ones most hostile to them. That means it's based on rumour and prejudice, not actual experience.
Are the people who actually live in the cities with a more mixed population supposed to go "sure, these people must be dangerous or evil because you suspect they are"? What is wrong with telling it like it is? "Nonsense. If you got to know them, you'd see they are just people like everybody else".
Actual racism and prejudice needs to be called out. It's destructive and nasty. The hurt feelings of racists are not really a major consideration. It's also not a purely subjective matter. Harassment and prejudice are real things, and can be estimated and tracked. Fake news stories and hate speech is real as well.
I agree people are not born haters, it's cultural. Adults who hate, teach kids to hate. That's why hate speech matters, and spreading prejudice and nasty rumours has to be taken seriously.
No. You have a tendency to play a victim card here. The people you disdainfully call "the left" tend to be the compassionate ones who actually care about equality and justice. I wish people would remember that it's those same people who care about rising unemployment benefits, taking care of the elderly, and so forth. If you set yourself up as being against "the left", then don't think you're standing for worker's rights, health care and so forth. The populist nationalist movements ends up super right wing if they get into power (we have that here in Finland now), and they definitely won't care about the poor fools who voted for them in the first place.
You don't have to be on the left side to honour those values, I know a few on the "right" side who can agree to those values too
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Ermmm - no .... sorry I mean NO IT WASN'T - it was because of the bank crash of 2008. The Labour government before that had reduced the country's deficit, had even paid off the War debt that we owed the USofA for all the stuff bought during WWII, and all of the spending in the years before 2008 was totally supported by the Tories.
It was the loss of taxation revenue following the crash and the bank-bailouts that left us with commitments for expenditure but reduced receipts to cover that and so a deficit ensued.
So get your facts straight, stop blaming the Tory-Light "New Labour" for the deficit, put your blame squarely on the banking sector.
(Sorry the graphs are different sizes, I didn't create them they were taken from the Daily Torygraph.)
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Snippets all from the same post. Complaining about prejudice and making sweeping statements about those whose politics are different from yours is the ultimate in irony.
Don't confuse people thinking that "more benefits" or "more state" is a bad idea with being uncaring.
Attacks of London: For the friendly match against Australia, the players of Saudi Arabia refuse to respect one minute of silence. Most of the Saudis did not react and continued their warm-up as if nothing had happened.
