Alien archeology and other mysteries: Thread 10 - The Canonn

[rizal72]

And now it's time for the usual Video Masterpiece from CaptainSkoomer: Thargoid Aftermath.
(on the FrontPage as well)

[video=youtube;e9U5Bdt4Rmw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9U5Bdt4Rmw[/video]

 

[MadDogMurdock]

The UAs and UPs being used to somehow contain the Thargoids in the Pleiades area still seems like the most plausible explanation, but it does leave some outstanding questions:

- who created the UAs and UPs?
- how did the barnacles get outside the shell if they were planted by the Thargoids to create a UA countermeasure?

Have there been any confirmed Hyperdictions outside the UA shell?

 

[Starke Hathaway]

The UAs and UPs being used to somehow contain the Thargoids in the Pleiades area still seems like the most plausible explanation, but it does leave some outstanding questions:

- who created the UAs and UPs?
- how did the barnacles get outside the shell if they were planted by the Thargoids to create a UA countermeasure?


Have there been any confirmed Hyperdictions outside the UA shell?

I figure the UAs must be human or at the least created in collaboration with humans, because there's no way they would use comprehensible human Morse code otherwise. The UPs I'm much less sure about. Their use of octal numbers (expressed in binary) suggests Thargoid origin, and really nothing else about them indicates human origin to me.

 

[rizal72]

So, with the acknowledgement of a potential massive cover-up by DBOBE in the trailer; it seems reasonable to revisit the early theories about the UA's (and likely UP's) origin and consider that they might well have been bang-on.

TL;DR: UAs and UPs are human made 'Thargoid detectors' and whoever made them is a previously unknown agency (altho could reasonably be referred to as INRA until we have another name) with a likely presence somewhere in Merope, probably on or near 5C

Specifically the anthropic elements which we all know so well:

- Using morse code to transmit information
- 2D line drawings with alphanumeric coordinates to transmit ship drawings
- Using a sonogram to transmit information
- That they were first found in human military convoys of both Fed and Imp (and possible Alliance, I can't remember if that was ever confirmed)

Despite their obviously alien-like nature, it seems to me the old idea that they are old alien tech repurposed for a human use is absolutely compelling.

The waters were muddied with the UA shell because it gave us a correlation between the barnacle sites in the Pleiades and the UAs, but the exact link was debatable. Because it seemed equally reasonable that they were somehow 'protecting' the site from incursion, and that it was the barnacle makers who put them there; as it did that humans had put them there.

Plus, the use of human communication methods by the UAs and UPs was easy to dismiss from our side of the fourth wall: they were puzzles made by humans, for humans, and therefore of course they'd use human readable messages.



But if you assume that UAs and UPs are human-made, that their manufacturers wish to remain hidden and that they have tried very hard to keep all knowledge of both them and any Thargoid history under wraps -then lots of things make sense.

Not least those anthropic elements above, but also things such as the sabotage of Palin's original lab, the murky way that the Halsey storyline unfolded - with her being replaced by a militaristic leader as well as being left in the black for months, and even potentially the fact that UAs damage ship modules and stations.

It allows us to make a few very plausible statements, or mental leaps in some cases, too:

- Both UAs and UPs exist to *detect* Thargoid activity
- They didn't magically arrive at the locations we now find them: they were taken there by convoys from both Fed and Imp space in a massive operation.
- Whoever did that is either incredibly rich; like, major-faction rich, or is above money
- The UA/UP placement reflects the fact that whoever made them knew a likely area to look (possibly based on pre-existing knowledge of barnacles before the players themselves discovered them)
- The UA's purpose is not to scan our ships - but to detect these flower ships and hopefully send 'scans' of them back to base
- Palin was sabotaged because any close scrutiny of the artefacts/probes would eventually lead to their human origins being discovered.
- The receiver of the information broadcasted by the probes/artefacts is on Merope 5C(!?) as we initially thought. But it's not alien: it's human.
- The absence of a UA shell, or presence of any probes, around the other nebulae where barnacles can be found suggests that 'they' might not even know about them.

If there is any possibility of finding evidence of this hidden human actor, then I think we need to get on the case. It could be there somewhere, and perhaps the reason we haven't found it yet is not because it's not there, but because we've been looking for the wrong thing.

Either way - if I, and the many other people whose ideas have contributed to this post, are right - then we might be looking at a bigger enemy than the Thargoids here. Equally, we might not have a choice about things going south despite our best attempts.

Sorry for such a long post! o7

LZ, you know how I respect you, but I don't buy this yet. From a Story perspective, it is much more "reasonable" that UA,UP and Barnacles all come from Thargoids, and they are the right part of a "crescendo", story wise.

I mean:
1) Thargoids decide it's time to "expand" or just to "explore" the galaxy to understand what's around them, just like WE humans are doing.
2) Step one they send Probes (UA) to check WHO's around, scanning ships, stations, planets and reporting back
3) Step two: find suitable planets for them -> the UP, scanning planets, Ammonia based, and reporting back
4) Step four: plant Barnacles to use like refueling stations for their next scouts ships, whatever they need to travel.
5) Scout ships, not aggressive, just watching around, scouting the grounds: depending on our reactions they fight back eventually
6) War or Peace, coexistence or annihilation: we decide

Story: everything without resorting to conspiracies of any sort. That said, the Powers know, and hide what they know to us, while Science (Palin) wants everyone to know the truth.

EDIT:
We DO NOT need the Ammonia Worlds, they do, perhaps they are trying to coexist, knowing it. But if we attack...

The Guardians: they are another specie, they are not extinct, they are somewhere, perhaps Halsey met them, and they could come in the future to bring back the equilibrium, depending on what we do. They are "The Guardians", after all

 

[LordZoltan]

The UAs and UPs being used to somehow contain the Thargoids in the Pleiades area still seems like the most plausible explanation, but it does leave some outstanding questions:

- who created the UAs and UPs?
- how did the barnacles get outside the shell if they were planted by the Thargoids to create a UA countermeasure?

Have there been any confirmed Hyperdictions outside the UA shell?

Well, as I say: if the hypothesis is correct, then those other barnacle centres might not have been known about. The thargs might have sneakily expanded beyond where they were expected to.

Given the difficulty in getting hyperdicted around the pleiades - and no real identification of the conditions under which it occurs - checking out hyperdictions out in Calif or Witch's head is likely to be super-happy-fun time...

 

[CMDR Poet Starwind]

I think maybe we should just do a quick scan of the planetary rings in HIP 17044, just for due diligence. I'll try to make it out there today.

Also, all these records (logs) regarding Dynasty/others speak of "unusual heat signatures". The flowerships may be "unknown" but they look like regular heat signatures to me. Anyone else observed differently?

 

[LordZoltan]

LZ, you know how I respect you, but I don't buy this yet. From a Story perspective, it is much more "possible" that UA,UP and Barnacles all come from Thargoids, and they are the right part of a "crescendo", story wise.
I mean:
1) Thargoids decide it's time to "expand" or just to "explore" the galaxy to understand what's around them, just like WE humans are doing.
2) Step one they send Probes (UA) to check WHO's around, scanning ships, stations, planets and report back
3) Step two: find suitable planets for them -> the UP, scanning planets, Ammonia based, and report back
4) Step four: plant Barnacles to use like refueling stations for their next scouts ships
5) Scout ships, not aggressive, just watching around: depending on our reactions they fight back eventually
6) War or Peace, coexistence or annihilation

Story.

Hey Riz, you know me - I can cope with people disagreeing (after I've had a little cry to myself at the bottom of the garden, obviously)

I agree, until we know then anything is possible.

But why then does a Thargoid use Fed blink code? In the words of my teenage children: it literally doesn't even make actual sense

For me it's a case of the simplest explanation: it uses human language because it's human made and therefore sending data to humans. Not a 'tainted' alien, or some kind of chimera.


But again - you know me Riz. Often wrong - and very happy to be! o7

 

[rizal72]

Hey Riz, you know me - I can cope with people disagreeing (after I've had a little cry to myself at the bottom of the garden, obviously)

I agree, until we know then anything is possible.

But why then does a Thargoid use Fed blink code? In the words of my teenage children: it literally doesn't even make actual sense

For me it's a case of the simplest explanation: it uses human language because it's human made and therefore sending data to humans. Not a 'tainted' alien, or some kind of chimera.


But again - you know me Riz. Often wrong - and very happy to be! o7

Sure, we discuss, politely!
And your blink code objection make absolutely sense. However, you know, it's a game, and how could FD create some alien language, that being alien by definition, could have been understood from us players? I agree that binary could have been a better choice then morse, but as you know, they used it later. They hired more people, could have time to develop better riddles, for us.
Perhaps the MORSE was just some kind of "temporary workaround/mistake": how could FD know from the beginning how smart we were?

PS
I made a couple edits to my previous post, perhaps you could read them....

 

[kenworth]

Has any flower ship barnacle "milking" been seen outside of the Pleiades? I'm currently at the dual barnacle site at CALIFORNIA SECTOR DL-Y D4 C 6. Nothing so far.

 

[Dr Phibes]

Who named the builders of the ruins "the guardians"?, and if that is actually their name, it does not mean thats what they do.
I am sort of thinking a long the lines that the thargs are actually the guardians and they will aid us in our fight against something far worse thats out there.

 

[LordZoltan]

Sure, we discuss, politely!
And your blink code objection make absolutely sense. However, you know, it's a game, and how could FD create some alien language, that being alien by definition, could have been understood from us players? I agree that binary could have been a better choice then morse, but as you know, they used it later. They hired more people, could have time to develop better riddles, for us.
Perhaps the MORSE was just some kind of "temporary workaround/mistake": how could FD know from the beginning how smart we were?

PS
I made a couple edits to my previous post, perhaps you could read them....

Good edits - and I'm definitely with you on the idea that those Guardians didn't entirely die out

And don't they apparently have a language that is stupid-hard to crack (although I can't help thinking: 36 dots or whatever it is; well, that's a-z,0-9 right? Ah, I dunno... I'm going off on a tangent, ignore me!)

 

[rizal72]

Who named the builders of the ruins "the guardians"?, and if that is actually their name, it does not mean thats what they do.
I am sort of thinking a long the lines that the thargs are actually the guardians and they will aid us our fight against something far worse thats out there.

Good edits - and I'm definitely with you on the idea that those Guardians didn't entirely die out

And don't they apparently have a language that is stupid-hard to crack (although I can't help thinking: 36 dots or whatever it is; well, that's a-z,0-9 right? Ah, I dunno... I'm going off on a tangent, ignore me!)

Well, imagine "The Guardians" not being able to guard for themselves, ending up extinct

However, It would be amazing to collaborate with Thargs, most of all to fly Tharg ships!!!!!

Try to gank a Tharg ship, try, Ganker...

 

[rizal72]

Drew Wagar updated his Thargoid Lore page with the latest events

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/6h888k/thargoid_lore_doc_updated/

 

[Dr Phibes]

Does anyone have thoughts on the weapon being used against the capital ships, to me apart from the obvious holes, it looks like a corrosive infection (growth?) spreading across the skin of the ships.
An organic weapon maybe?

 

[rizal72]

Does anyone have thoughts on the weapon being used against the capital ships, to me apart from the obvious holes, it looks like a corrosive infection (growth?) spreading across the skin of the ships.
An organic weapon maybe?

It seems to me too. It also has some kind of texture on it, like a fungal infection, and it makes a sound too from close proximity. Organic weapon is my bet. And remembering the corrosive effects of the UA...

 

[bitstorm]

Just a bit of a montage from the recent footage....


⇩ Starting with this shot most have already seen. Note Thargoid top right. I see no Thargons.

⇩ This looks to me like some historic image, old school Cobra MkIII and old school Thargoid.

⇩ Asteroid field is very dense and doesn't look like what we have in game. Guessing this is concept art.

⇩ Speaks for itself, it is words.

⇩ Empire not on the scene?

⇩ Some parts blacked out. Date .................. Subject: The ....................................

⇩ "Clearance" misspelt.

⇩ #5789? Lots of unknown out there?

⇩ Entity implies the Feds didn't know what is was?

⇩ Not sure but I think entity for me has a "something living" connotation. Feds encountered it alive?

⇩ The viewing ship named "The End".

⇩ Nice shot. FD seem to like mixing the red and green in the glowing bits. Hmmm.

⇩ Adder?

⇩ What is that marking on the wing, is it on all Adders? edit: yes manufacturer logo : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...0-The-Canonn?p=5611032&viewfull=1#post5611032

⇩ Is this ship disabled, it has a hardpoint out.

⇩ Hardpoints stowed.

⇩ Disabled cap ship.

⇩ Guardian style triangles in the background.

 

[evaldo10]

And now it's time for the usual Video Masterpiece from CaptainSkoomer: Thargoid Aftermath.
(on the FrontPage as well)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9U5Bdt4Rmw

That music sounds kind of majestic and rejoicing, did an Imp do that video lol

 

[evaldo10]

LZ, you know how I respect you, but I don't buy this yet. From a Story perspective, it is much more "reasonable" that UA,UP and Barnacles all come from Thargoids, and they are the right part of a "crescendo", story wise.

I mean:
1) Thargoids decide it's time to "expand" or just to "explore" the galaxy to understand what's around them, just like WE humans are doing.
2) Step one they send Probes (UA) to check WHO's around, scanning ships, stations, planets and reporting back
3) Step two: find suitable planets for them -> the UP, scanning planets, Ammonia based, and reporting back
4) Step four: plant Barnacles to use like refueling stations for their next scouts ships, whatever they need to travel.
5) Scout ships, not aggressive, just watching around, scouting the grounds: depending on our reactions they fight back eventually
6) War or Peace, coexistence or annihilation: we decide

Story: everything without resorting to conspiracies of any sort. That said, the Powers know, and hide what they know to us, while Science (Palin) wants everyone to know the truth.

EDIT:
We DO NOT need the Ammonia Worlds, they do, perhaps they are trying to coexist, knowing it. But if we attack...

The Guardians: they are another specie, they are not extinct, they are somewhere, perhaps Halsey met them, and they could come in the future to bring back the equilibrium, depending on what we do. They are "The Guardians", after all

I agree but I still believe there may be some UA or UP manipulation going on or at least some form of human manipulation within the Thargoids. Like luring Bee's from a nest to use as a weapon.

 

[evaldo10]

Hey Riz, you know me - I can cope with people disagreeing (after I've had a little cry to myself at the bottom of the garden, obviously)

I agree, until we know then anything is possible.

But why then does a Thargoid use Fed blink code? In the words of my teenage children: it literally doesn't even make actual sense

For me it's a case of the simplest explanation: it uses human language because it's human made and therefore sending data to humans. Not a 'tainted' alien, or some kind of chimera.


But again - you know me Riz. Often wrong - and very happy to be! o7

Thargoids may have learnt how to use certain communications that we use. This may be a way of communicating. Ship lights may be handy for something other than seeing rocks in the dark

 

[evaldo10]

It seems to me too. It also has some kind of texture on it, like a fungal infection, and it makes a sound too from close proximity. Organic weapon is my bet. And remembering the corrosive effects of the UA...

Looks like a hexagon lattice pattern, prob for maximum effect