General / Off-Topic The General Politics Thread aka "I didn't Vote For You"

[Alien]

Given the UK General Election thread has been closed, which is fair as the Election is over. I thought we could do with a thread to talk about politics in general.
Specific subjects like James Comey or Brexit can continue in their own thread, and if anything else happens that needs its own thread shouldn't be discussed here.
This is a general thread for general politics, nothing specific here.

To kick off this thread, did you vote? (no need to admit who you voted for). Should people who didn't vote have an opinion?

 

[K-Rose]

To start this thread off I give a George Carlin quote that's applicable to every democratic country:

"Now, there's one thing you might have noticed I don't complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. "

 

[K-Rose]

I voted Labour.

I voted Remain.

People who don't vote should still get to voice their opinion. There is no education regarding politics in our education system, there is no incentive to vote in many areas because of the First Past the Post system. Maybe in a proportional represenation system I would say "Don't Vote, Don't Moan", but I can't say that here in the UK.

 

[Leper Messiah]

To start this thread off I give a George Carlin quote that's applicable to every democratic country:

"Now, there's one thing you might have noticed I don't complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. "

Interesting quote as I bet lefties don't think it applies to any of their leaders and righties the same no doubt?

 

[Leper Messiah]

I voted Labour.

I voted Remain.

People who don't vote should still get to voice their opinion. There is no education regarding politics in our education system, there is no incentive to vote in many areas because of the First Past the Post system. Maybe in a proportional represenation system I would say "Don't Vote, Don't Moan", but I can't say that here in the UK.

There may be no education of politics but MANY teachers are left wing and teach that whether the kids want it or understand or not. Case in point the rabid loony leftie teacher who reported the kid for having links to UKIP...a LEGAL British party . Utterly insane and a sackable offence IMO that crossed the line of freedom of thought by a country mile.


Politics and religion should 100% be NOT taught in schools, every school should be neutral.

 

[K-Rose]

Interesting quote as I bet lefties don't think it applies to any of their leaders and righties the same no doubt?

Indeed, I mean I guess I'm a "leftie" by my history, and I think global warming is one of the biggest threats to humanity, but do I actually change my habits? I forget to turn the TV off, I flush the loo after every wee, I leave the tap running when brushing my teeth, I try to recycle but not really very bothered about it, I'll happily stick the heating on if I'm a little cold. All the "little" things I could do to help, I don't.

Basically yeah I'm just as bad as everyone I complain about and I don't have the self determination to actually bother doing anything about it.

So I'm actually firmly of the opinion that humans are doomed to be extinct. There's incredibly good people, and terrible people, at the end of the day history repeats itself and we're doomed to be wiped out. So may as well get on and enjoy Elite on my ridiculously overpowered PC causing more emmissions than constantly boiling a kettle.

 

[StiTch]

To start this thread off I give a George Carlin quote that's applicable to every democratic country:

"Now, there's one thing you might have noticed I don't complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. "

I have untold respect for the man, but sorry, no. Absolutely bloody not.

I can't speak for American politics specifically but when you apply yourself to such a line of work it's your duty to have conviction that your goal is to benefit the people. Corrupt and pro-rich leadership is not the consequence of a lacking pool of reasonable candidates; it's the result of corruption and cronyism ensuring that the chaps that get somewhere don't have conviction that their reasons for taking on such a role are noble. In fact I suspect most of them couldn't give a rat's backside about "the people".

Better people exist. But Corbyn is an example of how strongly the media and other parties will attack a man simply for being better.

 

[lokvette]

Didn't vote in the out of EU vote, if I had it would have been to stay more so as I live in Sweden so wanted to stay in the EU purely for the ease of travel, was still in the UK at the time of the vote.

Didn't vote in the General election (see above), the main reason I diddnt vote was I'm not or wasn't on the electoral role, various reasons for that none of them involving a tin foil hat mind you.

Overall I dont do politics, as nothing but pure comes out of their mouths, the only one I had any respect for was Neil kinnock back in the days when Labour was Labour, even though it seems JC is starting to take it back to where it should be.

Over all Im a bit of a Green, not that I agree with all of their policies but the one time I did vote it was for them. I said it before I dont moan about Swedish politics even though I dont agree with a lot of it , not my native country and I diddnt vote for any of them, saying that I used to moan about Thatcher, and I never voted for her or even voted, never really been into politics.

 

[verminstar]

Voted out of the EU...I dont trust them and dont feel they benefit us and favor a no borders everyone together approach. That could mean a united ireland so I voted against them. Other reasons too that I cant speak openly off...rules are rules even in off topic.

Voted DUP even though I hate the very ground they walk on...tactical voting because I hate sinn fein more and do not share their vision of a united ireland. The DUP are all that stands between us and them and are very staunchly pro union, and there is no middle ground. All the smaller parties were utterly decimated and lost all their seats, so its a two horse race here...two parties pick one even though ye despise both. One wants a united ireland which I will never support, and one wants to stay in the union at any cost...choice made.

I dont really care if ye vote or not, but if ye dont then ye got no call getting into my face about my choices. I have very little time fer those who do and almost zero respect. Ill respect their wishes not to vote and admit I really dont care what their reasons are...but they got no basis fer criticizing anyone elses choice. Make them hypocrites far as Im concerned. Sure lets discuss and debate but civilly and sensibly...but if they cant manage that then...whatever dude...yer opinion just became meaningless. They know who they are

Thats not a blind dig at anyone who didnt vote, many elections come round and I dont vote either simply because I have no love fer politicians...I dont respect them because they dont respect us. Respect must be earned, and very few ever reach the bar let alone get over it. A few have in the past...men and women who came from the slums and worked their way out on their own as the establishment likes to keep us in our place. They are our own and they are among our most respected, but their voices are small among the beurocrats who will never take them seriously...politicians and gentry born with silver spoons in their mouths. I got no time fer them at all.

Nuff said ^

 

[Arry]

To start this thread off I give a George Carlin quote that's applicable to every democratic country:

"Now, there's one thing you might have noticed I don't complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. "

Most politicians are failed at achieving their parents ambitions. Failed to pass their medical exams, or legal exams or whatever they just were not quite good enough at.

I voted Lib-dem (labour has no chance here), so anything to stop the Tories.

I voted remain; but only because I felt that the £350 million per week, was needed to pay Nigel's wages.

 

[FuzzySpider]

Should people who didn't vote have an opinion?

Should people who didn't vote also have a fridge? There is no logical connection between having an opinion and having a vote. True, a vote can be considered an expression of an opinion, but then so can an abstention.

Indeed why not make the more logical conclusion that voting invalidates an opinion? You've had your opinion, voiced your opinion... if you lost there is no point complaining about it after the fact. It is like complaining when you put money down at the roulette wheel. If your number doesn't come up don't ask for your money back. If your politician isn't the victorious one then don't complain about it later.

In fact this latter point is why I find the British electoral system so objectionable. You are confined to a choice of one party or another without any real ability to influence things beyond that (if your local MP is not the one you voted for your vote is then basically discarded), and that's your lot for 5 years, so you're forced to pick which particular piece of crap you dislike the least. Then, if your piece of crap gets in at all, he is one of a large number of MPs, a lot of who will have been picked themselves by similar arrangement.

It is monstrously unrepresentative, yet the sham of the voting provides this corrupt system with a "pressure valve" which prevents explosive rioting and violence on the UKs streets, although this frequently does flare up to a lesser extent during Tory governments when they push it too far (miners strike, Duggan killing, student riot, poll tax etc).

Also:

[video=youtube;6N-cG1cshpc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N-cG1cshpc[/video]

I do enjoy that channel.

 

[TheAntitheist Crusader]

I voted Labour, and i think anyone who is Anti Tory and didn't vote.....is....well..... You could at least vote Lib Dem, or even the pointless Greens lol.

 

[TheAntitheist Crusader]

There may be no education of politics but MANY teachers are left wing and teach that whether the kids want it or understand or not. Case in point the rabid loony leftie teacher who reported the kid for having links to UKIP...a LEGAL British party . Utterly insane and a sackable offence IMO that crossed the line of freedom of thought by a country mile.


Politics and religion should 100% be NOT taught in schools, every school should be neutral.

Politics and religion neutrality in education......on this we agree, allthough regarding religion, i think we should make sure evolution is the only theory/explanation taught, rather than creationism, you could call that a bias against religion, but i just call it education.

Edit: i meant politically neutral as in legitimate parties in stable democratic countries, and as it turns out i meant neutral as in....all religions treated the same with emphasis on irreligion.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

As a general comment, I offer this:

Everyone should have the undesirable experience of working, as a knowledgeable person, for a boss who is an uneducated autocratic idiot.
This provides us with the experience and tolerance for politicians, who are placed above every other profession.

In charge of every job, when they have actual knowledge of none.

No matter what country you live in, this is the salient problem we all face.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Politics and religion neutrality in education......on this we agree, allthough regarding religion, i think we should make sure evolution is the only theory/explanation taught, rather than creationism, you could call that a bias against religion, but i just call it education.

Right, so the politics of Germany should be taught in a neutral manner? Good luck with that.

 

[FuzzySpider]

Politics and religion neutrality in education......on this we agree, allthough regarding religion, i think we should make sure evolution is the only theory/explanation taught, rather than creationism, you could call that a bias against religion, but i just call it education.

There is no such thing as "neutral".

Also, if you're going to teach history you've got to talk about religion. If you push the narrative that religion = bad then you're pushing a narrative of history that isn't accruate.

 

[TheAntitheist Crusader]

Right, so the politics of Germany should be taught in a neutral manner? Good luck with that.

I'm talking about neutrality regarding party politics of legitimate parties, as in Conservative vs liberal vs socialist. Obviously the fascist (banned) parties should not be included, i'm merely suggesting that teachers teach the meaning of politics rather than teach who to vote for. I need to clarify that i'm not suggesting putting extremist parties in the same bracket. But as for the rest of politics i think it should be left for the individual to decide with the facts rather than being force fed by a biased teacher.....just give the students facts, which pretty much always favour we lefties anyway.

 

[TheAntitheist Crusader]

There is no such thing as "neutral".

Also, if you're going to teach history you've got to talk about religion. If you push the narrative that religion = bad then you're pushing a narrative of history that isn't accruate.

Neutral may be the wrong word then. I try to explain better in the previous post.

And about religion, fine, let's teach it so we can understand different cultures, but let's make sure they know that it's no more real than flat earth or lord of the rings....religion is pure fantasy.

 

[FuzzySpider]

Neutral may be the wrong word then. I try to explain better in the previous post.

And about religion, fine, let's teach it so we can understand different cultures, but let's make sure they know that it's no more real than flat earth or lord of the rings....religion is pure fantasy.

State atheism is not neutral.

 

[TheAntitheist Crusader]

State atheism is not neutral.

No, but it's fair, no one is forced to be an atheist (i'm not talking about the USSR state atheism) but no single religion is abused or favoured, no dogmatic laws or "blasphemy" to worry about, everyone's a winner other than the radicals.