Youtuber Kornelius Briedis seems to have had it with Fdevs

[MarkAusten]

+1 rep for making me LMAO

Ditto!

 

[MarkAusten]

What coffee shall the Devs drink? What time should they take their lunch? What's the meaning of life? What Party should the devs vote for? Why is it so hot?

Sorry, mate, but a lot of the questions you ask are either already dealt with (by adding misc NPCs / NPCrew into the game) or are just generic problems of building any addition to the game.

As I mentioned in an earlier post even if you already have functionality that can be reused, you still have to design the features you are looking to add, you cannot skip this stage and expect the result to be anything more than a bunch of tangled code. So those questions get asked and answered. Then you look at the implementation which covers existing functionality and the re-use or not thereof. And if you designed the feature three years ago then you redesign it again now as things will have changed substantially in those three years. You may use your original documentation as a guide but you certainly do not accept it as correct and plough on regardless.

So, no, you don't skip the questions if you want a good result. So you may think that "a lot of the questions you ask are either already dealt with (by adding misc NPCs / NPCrew into the game) or are just generic problems of building any addition to the game" but I can assure you that you don't design any software this way, not if you are a professional, know what you are doing and have the experience to know that shortcuts lead to problems. Just because you did it this was back then does not mean to say that you should do it this way now. It's the old "we've always done it this way" argument. Hear that and prepare to start redesigning.

Still, the intention of the list was to demonstrate that adding a feature like NPC crew is not an easy task. I dare say that real list of design questions is much, much longer, despite what you think.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

oh that Kornelius... house hold name and all that

 

[Ruskodisco]

The devs don't care and they don't read these forums. All these debates are for nothing as I found out a long time ago.

 

[babelfisch]

The devs don't care and they don't read these forums. All these debates are for nothing as I found out a long time ago.

In the meantime they commented on 8/20 threads on the frontpage. But sure, they never read the forums!

Protip: Don't act like an idiot and they will talk and listen to you.

 

[Knightshark]

The devs don't care and they don't read these forums. All these debates are for nothing as I found out a long time ago.

In the meantime they commented on 8/20 threads on the frontpage. But sure, they never read the forums!

Protip: Don't act like an idiot and they will talk and listen to you.

They read and comment. They just never give definitive answers and tend to avoid heated discussions.

 

[babelfisch]

Just an example:

Zac spend his time yesterday night at 2 AM to address our concerns and give an in depth reply to a pretty stupid question. I think these guys are doing a great job at reading and communicating. Actually it's you who absolutely fails at these skills, given the fact that you don't even notice when they talk to you.

Hi Alien,

I can explain and I hope you respect the absolute honesty and transparency in my answer.

The first thing I think it is important to note is that press and community are both very important. We all know community are important for all the reasons and more that you've mentioned. They create the most amazing content and they bring the game to life. Without the community the game is lifeless.

But press are important too. Without new people hearing about the game, we don't get new Commanders joining the awesome community. There are loads of other ways that we communicate to new, existing and old players too (not just press and community). It's all part of making sure that the community is as thriving, healthy and as active as it can be. Ultimately we all want the same thing.

One example of how we always keep our community in mind is E3. Rather than just showing content at E3 in press interviews alone, like many games do, we thought it would be better to have a community goal to incorporate a fun way to reveal the content in lore, try somethig new and then have that content out to the community at the very first opportunity. You may not always see it but we really do always try and make sure that the community are kept in the loop as early as possible. Ask any of the guys that came to visit the studio the other week.

As for the video. I understand that it can be frustrating not to be seeing one piece of content straight away but the truth is that having something exclusive to those interviews means that there's more reason for the press to write about the news, news that we all have a part of creating. E3 has a lot of games news so it's important to have that little extra sometimes. It's happens with all forms of communications and there's always balance to be had with however you get that content out to people.

E3 saw the community getting almost all of the E3 news first, with all the videos and content going live on our channels before the interviews were starting. This video was an extra exclusive to support those interviews as a way to.set the tone of what's to come.

I hope that answers your question. Please don't for a second think that the community isn't well loved or respected, they really are. I can hand on heart say (and I will at lavecon) that the company truly appreciates and values the support of the community and that shows in so many ways. I could list the countless ways community are put at the very front of events, updates, content and consideration and how this culture starts from the top and runs down the entire studio but it's late, i've spent too long on this reply lol and I'm heading to bed. Grab me at the lavecon if you want to discuss the details further. I'd be happy to explain in more detail.

All the best

Zac

P.S - Will the community see this video? Never say never.

They read and comment. They just never give definitive answers and tend to avoid heated discussions.

I remember Dale jumping in when we had one of the most ridiculous (and very heated) threads just a few days ago.

Maybe people just don't know about the Dev tracker or seriously expect an answer for every single post (which gets difficult with more than a million customers, but hey, I lost confidence in this community long time ago, so why not?).

 

[shadragon]

fair enough but wings came in in............ 1.2 was it? which is over 2 years ago now, and right now we do not even know if npc wingfolk or crew are even on the "horizon" despite being features i was expecting at launch. (and unlike landing on planets, i do not think npc wingmates was an outrageous thing to expect had one followed the developtment)

Right, but computer game development is hard and takes a long time. Frontier has a hundred people working on Elite and coordinating a group of that size is like herding cats.

We can't have everything now. It will take time to make all the pieces and put them in place. They're building a cathedral, not a shed.

 

[NeilF]

Right, but computer game development is hard and takes a long time. Frontier has a hundred people working on Elite and coordinating a group of that size is like herding cats.

We can't have everything now. It will take time to make all the pieces and put them in place. They're building a cathedral, not a shed.

Sorry, I'm calling a rhetoric alert on this one!

Do you work in the software industry? Do you design software and/or project managed its development?

 

[MarkAusten]

Sorry, I'm calling a rhetoric alert on this one!

Do you work in the software industry? Do you design software and/or project managed its development?

Doesn't matter if he does or does not, his comment about cats is spot on. And yes I do and I am

 

[NeilF]

Doesn't matter if he does or does not, his comment about cats is spot on. And yes I do and I am

Sorry... Reads as lazy (armchair) waffle to me.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Doesn't matter if he does or does not, his comment about cats is spot on. And yes I do and I am

trust me i get coding is hard.. i tried (and failed) a couple of times to learn python over the last few years at a level which you would find laughable

but here is the thing.. in what other careers is this actually a valid reason for not completing parts of a product that was sold and paid for 3 years ago - more for some of us.

heart surgery is hard
airline pilot is hard (assuming you fly yourself)
research scientist is hard.
hell for me with all the creative talent of a rock, landscape gardening and building work is hard.

but at the end of the day, if you sell a product based on certain core deliverables, imo people expect to receive them in a timely manner. ***

***Again, I am not covering the stuff we KNEW would be coming years down the line.

And i agree on one hand i am a lazy armchair developer perhaps

on the other hand i am a paid up customer who bought based on the sales spiels that FD made. IF it was too hard then they over reached, and if that is the case then FD owe it to use to be more open about where they are up to on key features.

 

[WR3ND]

Having watched a fair number of his videos, he might have saved himself some trouble and quit a while ago.

I'll miss his snark a bit, but hope he finds greener pastures.

 

[Kayweg]

Just for giggles, this thread now has 5 times as many views as the KB video linked in the OP.
Look, the guy takes a break from ED and plays other games, pretty much like most of us do, he's just another bloke.
Perhaps we're exaggerating the importance of Youtubers if we start making such a big deal out of that.

 

[NeilF]

Just for giggles, this thread now has 5 times as many views as the KB video linked in the OP.
Look, the guy takes a break from ED and plays other games, pretty much like most of us do, he's just another bloke.
Perhaps we're exaggerating the importance of Youtubers if we start making such a big deal out of that.

Pssst! Most of the conversation isn't about him... It's mostly about other stuff all around the position we find ED in at the moment. But of course you wouldn't know that, as you've just jumped in to make some "look at me" post? Or you don't care, because you've just jumped in to make some "look at me" post?

ie: Ironically you've clearly exaggerated the importance of youtubers... We haven't

 

[Kayweg]

Pssst! Most of the conversation isn't about him... It's mostly about other stuff all around the position we find ED in at the moment. But of course you wouldn't know that, as you've just jumped in to make some "look at me" post? Or you don't care, because you've just jumped in to make some "look at me" post?

ie: Ironically you've clearly exaggerated the importance of youtubers... We haven't

Yep, i skipped all the white noise on thisone.
I do that quite often, replying purely on the OP that is.

 

[Bobbydylan]

As I mentioned in an earlier post even if you already have functionality that can be reused, you still have to design the features you are looking to add, you cannot skip this stage and expect the result to be anything more than a bunch of tangled code. So those questions get asked and answered. Then you look at the implementation which covers existing functionality and the re-use or not thereof. And if you designed the feature three years ago then you redesign it again now as things will have changed substantially in those three years. You may use your original documentation as a guide but you certainly do not accept it as correct and plough on regardless.

So, no, you don't skip the questions if you want a good result. So you may think that "a lot of the questions you ask are either already dealt with (by adding misc NPCs / NPCrew into the game) or are just generic problems of building any addition to the game" but I can assure you that you don't design any software this way, not if you are a professional, know what you are doing and have the experience to know that shortcuts lead to problems. Just because you did it this was back then does not mean to say that you should do it this way now. It's the old "we've always done it this way" argument. Hear that and prepare to start redesigning.

Still, the intention of the list was to demonstrate that adding a feature like NPC crew is not an easy task. I dare say that real list of design questions is much, much longer, despite what you think.

So your argument is that developing the game is hard? Yes, we know that, but they've had 5 years, and millions of Pounds to do exactly this. Listing out every possible obstetrical isn't convincing me that their development priorities are skewed. Hell, deciding which brand of coffee to drink in the morning is hard, but I somehow still manage to find the courage to soldier on and come to work. I don't need you to to list out how the devs need to wipe their donkeys in the morning to know that their life isn't all ice-cream and chocolate sauce. These things are what they're signed on to do. But instead of going through this process on NPC crew, or NPC wings, they went through the exact same process on PowerPlay and CQC.

 

[NeilF]

Yep, i skipped all the white noise on thisone.
I do that quite often, replying purely on the OP that is.

Well, maybe went passing judgement on 20+ pages, and dozens of fellow posters, maybe not the best course of action? Maybe wisest to do it less often, to the degree of zero?

 

[NeilF]

So your argument is that developing the game is hard? Yes, we know that, but they've had 5 years, and millions of Pounds to do exactly this. Listing out every possible obstetrical isn't convincing me that their development priorities are skewed. Hell, deciding which brand of coffee to drink in the morning is hard, but I somehow still manage to find the courage to soldier on and come to work. I don't need you to to list out how the devs need to wipe their donkeys in the morning to know that their life isn't all ice-cream and chocolate sauce. These things are what they're signed on to do. But instead of going through this process on NPC crew, or NPC wings, they went through the exact same process on PowerPlay and CQC.

Exactly... We're 2.5 year beyond release, towards the end of not the first season, but now the second, and I suggest the development has generally showed a desire to do simple plugins, which in itself isn't a problem, but when the results are generally questionable, and probably at the expense of other developments that could have given "greater" results, you have to raise your eyebrows.

Personally I hope/pray the past two years has been a "rocky period" and now 2.4-->3 will show some truly more involved and impressive mechanics and gameplay being added.

 

[Mengy]

In the meantime they commented on 8/20 threads on the frontpage. But sure, they never read the forums!

Protip: Don't act like an idiot and they will talk and listen to you.

To be fair though, that is extremely unusual behavior for Frontier within the past half year or so. They seem to be more active today than is normal for Frontier lately. I'm wondering if Dale is the reason for this, as he's been particularly very active over the past few days.