Ships The missing ship from ED....the dedicated exploration vessel.

[Cmdr Tel]

These are just my thoughts
I know any ship can be turned to any purpose if you so choose but some are certainly more specialized in their respective fields...FDL, Vulture etc for combat, T6,7 and 9 for trade to name just a few. All of them can go exploring as well...but there are no specialized exploration vessels. The Asp?...a multi-purpose ship...Anaconda?....yet again a multi-purpose...yes these and the DBX as well as others can do the job but were not designed specifically for this task despite any nomenclature to the contrary.

A multi-purpose vessel is a good choice to go exploring in but there should be a specialized vessel...even just for RP purposes. Exploring is a very large part of this game and it would seem popular, We are supposed to be able to forge our own destinies and many people have spent months and even years out in the black and we have not even discovered 1% yet, never mind explored it. They have stripped down and engineered all kinds of vessels just to gain that 1/10th of a light year jump range. We all know the favourites... but why not a very specialized vessel for this purpose. It should have some very specific pros and cons of course to balance it out and not be just another bubble boat.

FD made a wonderful and vast galaxy. Why would there NOT be an exploration vessel? Especially now that 2.4 is coming.

This is what I would like to see:

A very different asymmetrical looking medium sized ship that has plenty of small internals for the scanners, SRV, AFMU's it should be fuel efficient but still still have a large internal for a fuel scoop and a reasonable tank. Good vertical thrusters for high G planetary landings and enough shield for the bumpy landings. A decent amount of utility mounts would be nice as well.

OK and now for the big pros:

A huge jump range
A fantastic cockpit view

Cons:

Little or no armour
Poor shields
Slow and very little boost
No hardpoints
Very little cargo room
Planetary and outpost landings only. Won"t fit through the slot due to its odd shape
Expensive (my least favorite part)

Wishlist:

EMP weapon for self defense. Just long enough to high wake out of there

Well what are your thoughts.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

I'm against the idea, for a number of reasons. Among them:

- Elite doesn't have single-use-only ships like that. That's far beyond the specialization an FDL or a Vulture has. You're specifically trying to make it useless for anything but your niche. That is not how this game plays.

- Frontier has stated that explorers will want to be armed in the future. Your idea of exploring is not Frontier's.

- You're nearly already describing a weaponless Asp or a Diamondback.

- You're not describing an "dedicated explorer", you're describing an extreme subset of that niche. Never-carry-a-weapon, only-care-about-range, is-ok-with-bad-thrusters, is not the definition of an explorer.

 

[PanTast]

I think you just need to equip a DBX, ASP or Anaconda withouth weapons, smallest possible shields, 1D Power Distributor (no boost) and no cargo (AFMU´s instead). And thats why I guess you never done much exploration, because thats what you do when you equip a ship for max range. You can get an Anaconda above 65 Ly and and DBX above 60 Ly doing so, but that not necessarily makes it and its pilot a good explorer. It just gets you somewhere fast.

The thing with the odd shape is not well thought through, because you might be able to land that ship on a planet or an outpost, but it will not fit in the hangar.

o7

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

I'm against the idea, for a number of reasons. Among them:

- Elite doesn't have single-use-only ships like that. That's far beyond the specialization an FDL or a Vulture has. You're specifically trying to make it useless for anything but your niche. That is not how this game plays.

- Frontier has stated that explorers will want to be armed in the future. Your idea of exploring is not Frontier's.

- You're nearly already describing a weaponless Asp or a Diamondback.

- You're not describing an "dedicated explorer", you're describing an extreme subset of that niche. Never-carry-a-weapon, only-care-about-range, is-ok-with-bad-thrusters, is not the definition of an explorer.

this will be extremely interesting going forward as I wouldn't take any of the exploration ships into a fight even if equipped to do so (exception here is the anaconda) even farming engineering materials killing traders in the DBx was a hellish task, may as well take a poorly equipped python out than a well equipped DBx, it has more teeth and can survive a lot longer. - so if there is truth to it, exploration vessels we know and love will get hit with the Nerf bat and get mothballed.

unless of course a brave sir robin maneuverer still exists in 2.4 and beyond then shield less and D spec will live on.

 

[Kaybe]

The Diamondback Explorer is as close it gets currently. Since it's buff, it's a pretty fantastic long range explorer.

I don't agree that a dedicated explorer should be completely gimp in every way other than jump range. But there should be tradeoffs. Here is what I would consider good specs for a dedicated explorer:

Pros:

- Amazing jump range, obviously. Like maybe 3 or 4 LY over the Diamondback Explorer.
- Small size, two seater. Good for landing anywhere and good for using multicrew to show off interesting places to friends.
- Fast, at least 400 m/s boost and agile. An explorer needs to be able to run from threats and it should be fast enough to quickly scout planetary surfaces. What's the point of having a deep space scout if anything can catch it?
- Optional Internals: 1x class 5 (specialized, can only fit fuel scoop, AFMU, or cargo bays), 2x class 3, 3x class 2.
- Excellent heat management.

Cons:

- Only two small hardpoints. No more. Good for fitting a couple of mining lasers or shock mine launchers, maybe, but definitely not more combat capable than that.
- Class 3 Power Distributor
- Class 3 Power Plant
- Two utility slots.

 

[FredReynolds]

unless of course a brave sir robin maneuverer still exists in 2.4 and beyond then shield less and D spec will live on.

Perhaps the future for the Brave Sir Robin move is D rated shield too (though I know many already do if for nothing else then to protect during landings). Unless whatever we run into is able to disable FSD all together or systems such as the 'goids, but if that's the case I agree that shy of a few, weapons will just make you feel like you might do something before exploding.

 

[xondk]

These are just my thoughts
I know any ship can be turned to any purpose if you so choose but some are certainly more specialized in their respective fields...FDL, Vulture etc for combat, T6,7 and 9 for trade to name just a few. All of them can go exploring as well...but there are no specialized exploration vessels. The Asp?...a multi-purpose ship...Anaconda?....yet again a multi-purpose...yes these and the DBX as well as others can do the job but were not designed specifically for this task despite any nomenclature to the contrary.

A multi-purpose vessel is a good choice to go exploring in but there should be a specialized vessel...even just for RP purposes. Exploring is a very large part of this game and it would seem popular, We are supposed to be able to forge our own destinies and many people have spent months and even years out in the black and we have not even discovered 1% yet, never mind explored it. They have stripped down and engineered all kinds of vessels just to gain that 1/10th of a light year jump range. We all know the favourites... but why not a very specialized vessel for this purpose. It should have some very specific pros and cons of course to balance it out and not be just another bubble boat.

FD made a wonderful and vast galaxy. Why would there NOT be an exploration vessel? Especially now that 2.4 is coming.

This is what I would like to see:

A very different asymmetrical looking medium sized ship that has plenty of small internals for the scanners, SRV, AFMU's it should be fuel efficient but still still have a large internal for a fuel scoop and a reasonable tank. Good vertical thrusters for high G planetary landings and enough shield for the bumpy landings. A decent amount of utility mounts would be nice as well.

OK and now for the big pros:

A huge jump range
A fantastic cockpit view

Cons:

Little or no armour
Poor shields
Slow and very little boost
No hardpoints
Very little cargo room
Planetary and outpost landings only. Won"t fit through the slot due to its odd shape
Expensive (my least favorite part)

Wishlist:

EMP weapon for self defense. Just long enough to high wake out of there

Well what are your thoughts.

The conda is a multi roll ship, sure, but it is absolutely no slouch when it comes to exploration.
Then there's the asp explorer, or diamondback explorer?

 

[Cmdr Tel]

I'm against the idea, for a number of reasons. Among them:

- Elite doesn't have single-use-only ships like that. That's far beyond the specialization an FDL or a Vulture has. You're specifically trying to make it useless for anything but your niche. That is not how this game plays.

- Frontier has stated that explorers will want to be armed in the future. Your idea of exploring is not Frontier's.

- You're nearly already describing a weaponless Asp or a Diamondback.

- You're not describing an "dedicated explorer", you're describing an extreme subset of that niche. Never-carry-a-weapon, only-care-about-range, is-ok-with-bad-thrusters, is not the definition of an explorer.

I cede that perhaps no hard points may be a bit extreme..after all you might want to mine..... so two small hard points then since that does seem to be the minimum in the game. I would argue a Taipan or even an Eagle are pretty much combat-orientated and Vipers are really not going to out trade a T9, neither are T9's probably going to get a rep for BH. The most likely introduction of the Panther Clipper.. really! There are ships that are heavily orientated toward one of the two of the three fields. Not so with exploring, the anaconda with highest jump range was designed as an armed trader, which it excels at, and is an absolutely good choice for exploring, the same with the aspx and DBX but none were designed specifically for exploration. That was my point.

 

[Cmdr Tel]

I think you just need to equip a DBX, ASP or Anaconda withouth weapons, smallest possible shields, 1D Power Distributor (no boost) and no cargo (AFMU´s instead). And thats why I guess you never done much exploration, because thats what you do when you equip a ship for max range. You can get an Anaconda above 65 Ly and and DBX above 60 Ly doing so, but that not necessarily makes it and its pilot a good explorer. It just gets you somewhere fast.

The thing with the odd shape is not well thought through, because you might be able to land that ship on a planet or an outpost, but it will not fit in the hangar.

o7

You can land at either on the surface and do most things without entering the hanger. If you need to enter the hanger then, I'm sure with a little imagination, the wings or sensors could be retracted/folded. The large trading and liner ships have to compromise no outposts, I was just trying to be fair to offset the benefits of a large jump range.

 

[Cmdr Tel]

The Diamondback Explorer is as close it gets currently. Since it's buff, it's a pretty fantastic long range explorer.

I don't agree that a dedicated explorer should be completely gimp in every way other than jump range. But there should be tradeoffs. Here is what I would consider good specs for a dedicated explorer:

Pros:

- Amazing jump range, obviously. Like maybe 3 or 4 LY over the Diamondback Explorer.
- Small size, two seater. Good for landing anywhere and good for using multicrew to show off interesting places to friends.
- Fast, at least 400 m/s boost and agile. An explorer needs to be able to run from threats and it should be fast enough to quickly scout planetary surfaces. What's the point of having a deep space scout if anything can catch it?
- Optional Internals: 1x class 5 (specialized, can only fit fuel scoop, AFMU, or cargo bays), 2x class 3, 3x class 2.
- Excellent heat management.

Cons:

- Only two small hardpoints. No more. Good for fitting a couple of mining lasers or shock mine launchers, maybe, but definitely not more combat capable than that.
- Class 3 Power Distributor
- Class 3 Power Plant
- Two utility slots.

I didn’t want to ask for too much. Who is chasing you? This would not be a bubble boat for sure. I would go for a little more on the extremes but this wolld be a good compromise

 

[Cmdr Tel]

I think you just need to equip a DBX, ASP or Anaconda withouth weapons, smallest possible shields, 1D Power Distributor (no boost) and no cargo (AFMU´s instead). And thats why I guess you never done much exploration, because thats what you do when you equip a ship for max range. You can get an Anaconda above 65 Ly and and DBX above 60 Ly doing so, but that not necessarily makes it and its pilot a good explorer. It just gets you somewhere fast.

The thing with the odd shape is not well thought through, because you might be able to land that ship on a planet or an outpost, but it will not fit in the hangar.

o7

My point was that there were no dedicated exploring vessels. All three of them are excellent choices and can be adapted to go exploring as well as many others. I'm heading out in my dolphin here very shortly, all be it only to Colonia this time..... but I have my I eye on the other side of the galaxy. It is in no way trying to get there fast, that would not be exploring. It is about being able to jump those very sparse areas and to the distant systems. This is a great game but I just think it is missing a ship.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

No it isn't missing an exploration ship, you can explore in pretty much any ship and many of them has long enough jumprange - you can get into 60 lys now. 30 was a lot not so long ago, so why complain? Why would you need more?

Also, I don't get the rush to explore the very fringes - the core contains 80-90% of all stars and also the most exotic systems.

 

[Zeeman]

...
Cons:

Little or no armour
Poor shields
Slow and very little boost
No hardpoints
Very little cargo room
Planetary and outpost landings only. Won"t fit through the slot due to its odd shape
Expensive (my least favorite part)

Wishlist:
...

Sounds like you've come up with a list of random cons simply for the sake of it. Why no hardpoints? Aliens may be hostile. Why an odd shape and won't fit through mail box? Makes no sense. Why slow and no boost? These things land on planets - high G ones at times. They carry SRV's, and perhaps SLF's...

Why no cargo? What if you find a unique item out int he black? you gonna call you t-9 cargo ship?

A good view, good jump range, and two god damned C1 slots are a nice start. Then we need a large FSD, at least a C6, if not higher slot for a big fuel scoop, and lots of utility slots for various scanners, and heat sinks for those with a habit of spending too much time near stars.

The Asp is already most of these things, it just falls short in terms of ultimate jump range to the Anaconda.

A more sensible way to do it would be to use an existing ship as a base, and modify the internal modules. eg, 2 x C5 = 1x C6 slot. 1 C3 split into 2 x C1 slots.

So, I present to you the Asp X LR (long range)

C6 FSD
C5 Power plant
C5 thrusters
C4 power distributor
C6 slot
C4 slot
C3 slot
C1 slot x2
C2 hardpoints x 2
Utility mounts x 5

Slightly larger (and heavier) than the Asp X, as there is actually a little more room needed in terms of module slots, even though there are less of them, the C6 FSD takes up a lot of space, some of which is accounted for due to less secondary internal slots (eg - loss of the C5 slot, the volume of which is combined with the FSD slot to create a C6 FSD slot.).

Z...

 

[Schmack]

From a RP perspective, I don't want a single engine Cessna to fly around the world for years. I want a Gulfstreamn G5. Basically who wants to spend half their life in a two seater? You want to have a living space, research area, all that jazz. I get it that we are only looking through the front windshield, however RP dictates we take into account the time we aren't at the helm. I'd like to have a crewmate to do some of the driving tbh. Unfortunately the game is easier to navigate with a smaller craft, and since they gave the smaller craft the longer jump ranges, seems most likely that they would be the best for exploring, or rapid travel to distant systems (in lieu of actual planet by planet exploration).

I think the Anaconda is good for exploring other than the turns at the stars are slow and tedious. The AspX seems like a perfect fit, but it's a bit of a tin can, not very attractive to me personally. I'd like to see something more like the DBx that has less of a bug appearance and more of a smaller, luxury/science craft appearance. Think Calypso sans anchor and prop (and Jacques and sons).

Ideally you'd be able to leave your large craft in orbit and take a shuttle craft to the planet that doubles as an SRV once on the ground. Maybe risky, but without a wake, you'd be impossible to locate in orbit.

 

[Zeeman]

From a RP perspective, I don't want a single engine Cessna to fly around the world for years. I want a Gulfstreamn G5. Basically who wants to spend half their life in a two seater? You want to have a living space, research area, all that jazz. I get it that we are only looking through the front windshield, however RP dictates we take into account the time we aren't at the helm. I'd like to have a crewmate to do some of the driving tbh. Unfortunately the game is easier to navigate with a smaller craft, and since they gave the smaller craft the longer jump ranges, seems most likely that they would be the best for exploring, or rapid travel to distant systems (in lieu of actual planet by planet exploration).

I think the Anaconda is good for exploring other than the turns at the stars are slow and tedious. The AspX seems like a perfect fit, but it's a bit of a tin can, not very attractive to me personally. I'd like to see something more like the DBx that has less of a bug appearance and more of a smaller, luxury/science craft appearance. Think Calypso sans anchor and prop (and Jacques and sons).

Ideally you'd be able to leave your large craft in orbit and take a shuttle craft to the planet that doubles as an SRV once on the ground. Maybe risky, but without a wake, you'd be impossible to locate in orbit.

You do realise just how big an Asp is, right? Even an Eagle is not much smaller than an Airbus A320

Z

 

[Mengy]

I've been asking for a dedicated, focused exploration vessel for a long time now. I don't think Frontier wants to do it, and a lot of the community is against it too for some reason. In my opinion having choices is never a bad thing, and people could freely ignore said dedicated exploration ship if they didn't like it. I'd like to have one though, as I have zero interest in carrying weapons while out exploring, and that will remain so as long as explorers lose all data upon death. Because of that, a fast (Brave Sir Robin!), far jumping, with zero hardpoints ship would be absolutely ideal for me. Make it a medium sized Imperial ship and I'd practically never fly anything else!!!!

 

[Scubadog]

Although I do understand why you're wanting a by-design exploring ship--and would likely buy one if it was reasonably priced--I think as long as there are ways to outfit a few ships FOR exploration, I'm fine with things the way they are now. I've got a couple of different ships, but have relied upon the Diamondback Explorer pretty exclusively for many months. I particularly liked the additional buff it got with the recent update. I'm an explorer, period. I have really no interest in battling it out with people or NPCs (in fact, one of the HUGE attractions to exploring is that I avoid everyone altogether), and I can't see me enjoying mining or trading. There's just too much work involved. Exploring is ideal for a loner like me. Really, the only thing lacking on the DBE is one extra spot for a second AFMS. I have one AFMS, and grabbed that before I began my LONG trek to Colonia back in January. I just got to Colonia earlier this month.

 

[Scubadog]

Since, again, it was way too much work to get all the things necessary to get the Engineer upgrades, I settled for getting as optimized with my DBE as I could, while still including what I felt was enough protection from accidents (shields, AFMS, SRV). I didn't know about the neutron star supercharging for the FSD, so I took the long haul. So, five months later, I made it to Colonia with 30% hull, most modules down to at least 50%, and dead AFMS... and a sigh of relief. Having enough room for a second AFMS would have been exactly right. Anyway, I really like the DBE, it's been a sturdy workhorse, it's WAY reasonably priced and isn't going to kill my bank account if I have to spend the insurance money to replace it. I DO with we could have some cool addons or fancier paint jobs like some of the other ships get.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

I've been asking for a dedicated, focused exploration vessel for a long time now. I don't think Frontier wants to do it, and a lot of the community is against it too for some reason. In my opinion having choices is never a bad thing, and people could freely ignore said dedicated exploration ship if they didn't like it. I'd like to have one though, as I have zero interest in carrying weapons while out exploring, and that will remain so as long as explorers lose all data upon death. Because of that, a fast (Brave Sir Robin!), far jumping, with zero hardpoints ship would be absolutely ideal for me. Make it a medium sized Imperial ship and I'd practically never fly anything else!!!!

I think the current balance is just right with lots of great options - just remember DW, 90% of the ships were only Asps and Anacondas. I'd rather address other niches, like Alliance vessels, the Saud Kruger FDL, or say a mining ship.
In fact exploration is pretty much the only activity that can be done with any ship.

 

[Cdr Voorheez]

I'm against the idea, for a number of reasons. Among them:

- Elite doesn't have single-use-only ships like that. That's far beyond the specialization an FDL or a Vulture has. You're specifically trying to make it useless for anything but your niche. That is not how this game plays.

- Frontier has stated that explorers will want to be armed in the future. Your idea of exploring is not Frontier's.

- You're nearly already describing a weaponless Asp or a Diamondback.

- You're not describing an "dedicated explorer", you're describing an extreme subset of that niche. Never-carry-a-weapon, only-care-about-range, is-ok-with-bad-thrusters, is not the definition of an explorer.

I disagree with your sentiment for two main reasons:

1. Choice. FD are not saying all explorers need to carry weapons and armour it's a choice thing. It isn't prescriptive.
2. Weight and range. The above makes exploration practically null and void.

I am still out in the deepest black in a weaponless lightly shielded Orca because I choose to demonstrate that right. I have already decided that if I am lucky enough to encounter a Thargoid I will try and engage with it in a non belligerent manner.
This has already been discussed at length on the explorer forums.
So back to OPs point. I think we already have 'dedicated' exploration vessels: any ship can be modified to explore. I am exploring in a 50ly ranged Orca right now. Engineering has opened that door to virtually any ship so no I also agree with the sentiment that we should not have an uber niche exploration centric ship. In all fairness we already have 2:

DBE
Asp E