The problem with the new C&P improvements

[bitstorm]

Maybe the answer is that regardless of crimes reported, the game records who shot you first, and if the opponent switches it on, the police then attack *them* since the game remembers that far back.

Or perhaps the cops turn up and give the cheater a fine for wasting police time?

Aye but the more I think about this, it doesn't cover the scenario where some dude asks for a duel, one CMDR HAS to fire first, then as he starts losing he switches it on.

Would be nice if whatever solution was implemented was not abusable in agreed PvP.

 

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

Aye but the more I think about this, it doesn't cover the scenario where some dude asks for a duel, one CMDR HAS to fire first, then as he starts losing he switches it on.

Would be nice if whatever solution was implemented was not abusable in agreed PvP.

This is why I want to see a clear icon in the HUD that tells me that their crimes are OFF. As soon as they turn it ON, I stop shooting, troll denied.

 

[Mohrgan]

There's no reason to wait. C&P is being abused against lawful players daily. The only reason why it wasn't a problem so far was because C&P didn't really matter, but now that they're adding punishments for being wanted, it's crucial to remove possible abuse of these mechanics.

There are a variety of methods you can apply yourself, without asking FD, to save you from what happens in open play. Learn these methods like you would High-waking, or mission stacking.

 

[Riverside]

Aye but the more I think about this, it doesn't cover the scenario where some dude asks for a duel, one CMDR HAS to fire first, then as he starts losing he switches it on.

Would be nice if whatever solution was implemented was not abusable in agreed PvP.

The solution is easy, if it's an agreed fight, just got to an Anarchy system.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Aye but the more I think about this, it doesn't cover the scenario where some dude asks for a duel, one CMDR HAS to fire first, then as he starts losing he switches it on.

Would be nice if whatever solution was implemented was not abusable in agreed PvP.

True- you could have a third option, that you have a toggle that activates a 10 minute countdown that prevents any police response. Or maybe a special beacon you drop, 10km radius, portable fightzone?

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

Aye but the more I think about this, it doesn't cover the scenario where some dude asks for a duel, one CMDR HAS to fire first, then as he starts losing he switches it on.

Would be nice if whatever solution was implemented was not abusable in agreed PvP.

If it's AGREED , just AGREE to have it in a Anarchy, whats so bleeding hard, every system has a unhibited anarchy within a few ly, use them.

 

[Riverside]

This is why I want to see a clear icon in the HUD that tells me that their crimes are OFF. As soon as they turn it ON, I stop shooting, troll denied.

You are asking for the game to be made simpler. Less depth. I don't favour this. I want more choices, more opportunity to out think an opponent.

 

[RagingxPenguin]

It's really not. Legit PVP is the endgame for many players and keeps the money flow for frontier. If there wasn't such thing, many of us would quit the game months ago.

Can't rep you again but that is a great point.

 

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

There are a variety of methods you can apply yourself, without asking FD, to save you from what happens in open play. Learn these methods like you would High-waking, or mission stacking.

There's no way of telling if someone has crimes ON or OFF before you land a shot on them. After that, you're a wanted criminal (soon you'll also recieve global bounty and won't be able to clear the bounty using a sidewinder), there's no middleground.

 

[Riverside]

There's no way of telling if someone has crimes ON or OFF before you land a shot on them. After that, you're a wanted criminal (soon you'll also recieve global bounty and won't be able to clear the bounty using a sidewinder), there's no middleground.

Not in an Anarchy (ie >99% of systems)

 

[bitstorm]

Hehe, here's a (stupid) idea.

So the ship's crime computer tracks the REAL state of the crime even if off. But when switched on it will report who hit next as the criminal.

So it reports in the abusable way, but the game knows who the real criminal is.


And behind the scenes there's a criminal rep (or C+P) system. In that you could have a good criminal reputation, or a bad (backstabber) criminal rep.


You could even take that a step further and introduce a sort of NPC gangster underworld enforcement system out there.

So you'd have the normal C+P system in place, but then a duplicate of that at a deeper level within the underworld.

Ultimately it the same thing all the way down isn't it, PvE moaning about PvPers, and honourable PvPers moaning about dishonourable PvPers. The complaints are essentially the same.

Way out of scope though.

 

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

You are asking for the game to be made simpler. Less depth. I don't favour this. I want more choices, more opportunity to out think an opponent.

That's not a choice, it's an agressive and unfair abuse. I don't ask the game to be simplier, I ask it to be fair and I want it to tell me the info I need to know to operate.

Not in an Anarchy (ie >99% of systems)

PVP rarely happens in a anarchy. Frontier is ignoring 99% of our CG requests, and CGs are the hub of PVP. The best thing would be to have a constant anarchy CG, but that's going to break too many immersions of forum dads.

 

[Riverside]

That's not a choice, it's an agressive and unfair abuse. I don't ask the game to be simplier, I ask it to be fair and I want it to tell me the info I need to know to operate.

Now you are being the hypocrite

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Honestly the funniest part about this is the people they are trying to slow down (The hardcore gankers) will be least affected by this.


This only makes PvP harder.

This is very stale tactic as counterargument in gaming community. Nope, it doesn't make PvP harder. It makes it more meaningful.

 

[Riverside]

PVP rarely happens in a anarchy. Frontier is ignoring 99% of our CG requests, and CGs are the hub of PVP.

Perhaps now it will.

 

[RagingxPenguin]

This is very stale tactic as counterargument in gaming community. Nope, it doesn't make PvP harder. It makes it more meaningful.

How?

PvP will continue, the ganking will continue. I honestly feel nothing will change. Well, maybe the meme ships disappear from long term players. But that is about it.

 

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

Perhaps now it will.

No it won't, one of the reasons why CGs are the PVP hubs is because it also allows legit PVPers to clear out the gankers who were shooting carebros there.

 

[Riverside]

How?

PvP will continue, the ganking will continue. I honestly feel nothing will change. Well, maybe the meme ships disappear from long term players. But that is about it.

I think it allows for agreed PvP in Anarchy systems while making bounties a little more meaningful. It's only money, and money is easy enough to obtain.

No it won't, one of the reasons why CGs are the PVP hubs is because it also allows legit PVPers to clear out the gankers who were shooting carebros there.

Adapt or quit?

 

[spatula]

Maybe a better solution....

INVITE TO WING
OPEN VOICE COMMS
REQUEST DUEL / ACCEPT DUEL


One player sends a duel request to another. If you are in a wing of 4, the other player will see "CMDR X (Wing 4/4) Wants to Duel".

Accepting a duel would allow:

- Players to drop a "PVP Beacon", like a wing beacon, for easier instancing
- No crimes are logged to those in the duel against each other
- Anyone interfering and not in the duel would receive crimes for attacking
- After the duel is over, the winners receive credits equivalent to the re-buys of their fallen opponents, with a multi-crew-like session report, showing damage stats

 

[Mohrgan]

There's no way of telling if someone has crimes ON or OFF before you land a shot on them. After that, you're a wanted criminal (soon you'll also recieve global bounty and won't be able to clear the bounty using a sidewinder), there's no middleground.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean you don;t have to ability, already, to protect your self. I have suggested that the Crimes Toggle be repurposed before. I suggested that a players scanner icon would change to reflect the report crimes toggle status. Such as: Square hollow icon for a Commander with report's on, (just as we have now) and a round, hollow icon when report's is off. To identify yourself as open for PvP, not to save you from a nefarious opponent. The idea is to allow PvP'ers a way to say they are 'open for business'. Bring your duels to an anarchy system if you feel at risk.