Engineers Engineer requirements don't fit in with the game philosophy at all

Muzz UK · Jun 25, 2017

Ok so deep into engineers with lots of grade 5 upgrades available however I have to say half of it has not been enjoyable the rewards are very nice but some of it is just a grind, dull and a bit boring. You constantly have to refit your ship or buy other ships. Now lets get this straight I have over 1000 hours played I'm not in it for the grind I don't go out just to make credits or get engineer upgrades. I like to experience the universe I even have a VR headset. I've done trading, combat, long range exploring, mining, I have a faction I support and I enjoy all aspects the game BUT engineers and the way it works does not fit in with the game philosophy. Engineers takes your freedom away.

Engineers should be unlockable for each career path they should not have JUST ONE requirement... for example to unlock Farseer explorers can travel a certain distance, traders can provide her a certain commodity and combat pilots can do this based on bounties.

Elite Dangerous is sold on being able to make your own choices go where you want do as you please... Engineers destroys this meta... Engineers forces you to go mining it forces you to trade and it forces you to do things you do not want to. If you want engineers upgrades you have to do what is required.

Elite Dangerous is sold on the following headlines:

PLAY YOUR WAY:
Experience infinite freedom as you earn the skill, knowledge, wealth and power to stand among the ranks of the Elite.

DAVID BRABEN KICKSTARTER:

Take a ship and 100 credits to make money legally or illegally - trade, bounty-hunt, pirate, assassinate your way across the galaxy. Play your way

PLAY YOUR WAY!!!! apart from when you engineer!!!!!

Some examples of why engineers forces you to do things against your freedom

Trade at 50 different black martets - How many bounty hunters or mission runners do this?

Get 10 units of Painite - How many explorers or PvP players do this?

Gain exploration rank Surveyor or higher - How many traders or miners do this?

Gain combat rank Dangerous or higher - I rest my case[/I]

Ninj · Jun 25, 2017

You're free to ignore the engineers.

Kaocraft · Jun 25, 2017

I dislike Engineers for all kinds of reasons but I strongly disagree with your contention that everything in the game should be unlockable by doing any activity. Different things should be functionally and not just cosmetically different from one another. The galaxy is way too samey as it is and it frankly disgusts me that people nonetheless issue demands to further flatten the game.

h347h · Jun 25, 2017

This has already been debated to death(your position lost the debate btw) can this get merged with one of the old mega threads about this?

Muzz UK · Jun 25, 2017

Ninj said:
You're free to ignore the engineers.

Yes you can ignore them BUT it's been made clear you'll need them for anything Thargoid related.

You need them to PvP now.

You need them to update your FSD which to be honest is a massive requirement to play. Look I'm not knocking engineers I just think the design and requirements don't suit half the community and go against lettings us play the way we want.

Pyrotiger · Jun 25, 2017

You can borrow my tin hat, OP. It's rather dented but still good. You're going to need it...

CptXabaras · Jun 25, 2017

steve_muzz said:
Ok so deep into engineers with lots of grade 5 upgrades available however I have to say half of it has not been enjoyable the rewards are very nice but some of it is just a grind, dull and a bit boring. You constantly have to refit your ship or buy other ships. Now lets get this straight I have over 1000 hours played I'm not in it for the grind I don't go out just to make credits or get engineer upgrades. I like to experience the universe I even have a VR headset. I've done trading, combat, long range exploring, mining, I have a faction I support and I enjoy all aspects the game BUT engineers and the way it works does not fit in with the game philosophy. Engineers takes your freedom away.

Engineers should be unlockable for each career path they should not have JUST ONE requirement... for example to unlock Farseer explorers can travel a certain distance, traders can provide her a certain commodity and combat pilots can do this based on bounties.

Elite Dangerous is sold on being able to make your own choices go where you want do as you please... Engineers destroys this meta... Engineers forces you to go mining it forces you to trade and it forces you to do things you do not want to. If you want engineers upgrades you have to do what is required.

Elite Dangerous:

PLAY YOUR WAY:
Experience infinite freedom as you earn the skill, knowledge, wealth and power to stand among the ranks of the Elite.

DAVID BRABEN KICKSTARTER:

Take a ship and 100 credits to make money legally or illegally - trade, bounty-hunt, pirate, assassinate your way across the galaxy. Play your way

Some examples of why engineers forces you to do things against your freedom

Trade at 50 different black martets - How many bounty hunters or mission runners do this?

Get 10 units of Painite - How many explorers or PvP players do this?

Gain exploration rank Surveyor or higher - How many traders or miners do this?

Gain combat rank Dangerous or higher - I rest my case[/I]

Please someone, insert beaten horse gif here...

h347h · Jun 25, 2017

steve_muzz said:
You need them to PvP now.

CQC though...

You may indeed have point about Thargoid related stuff but it is looking like they are going to also be optional as well. Thargoid fighting equipment sounds like new modules more so than mods though. So currently it might be a toss of if you are reliant on them to fight bugs.

CptXabaras said:
Please someone, insert beaten horse gif here...

Sallen · Jun 25, 2017

Kaocraft said:
I dislike Engineers for all kinds of reasons but I strongly disagree with your contention that everything in the game should be unlockable by doing any activity. Different things should be functionally and not just cosmetically different from one another. The galaxy is way too samey as it is and it frankly disgusts me that people nonetheless issue demands to further flatten the game.

This. I don't like or play Engineers either, but what we need are mechanics that restrict and define the experience more based on your choices (aka. depth), not more shallow extension of mechanics that can be engaged and disengaged from in 10 minutes.

Using Goetic princes to get good trade deals should be considered an exploit, by the way.

Muzz UK · Jun 25, 2017

Sallen said:
This. I don't like or play Engineers either, but what we need are mechanics that restrict and define the experience more based on your choices (aka. depth), not more shallow extension of mechanics that can be engaged and disengaged from in 10 minutes.

Using Goetic princes to get good trade deals should be considered an exploit, by the way.

Yes and it means the game is limited to low income commanders who cannot afford to refit or buy new ships because they have to do something they don't want too.

Sallen · Jun 25, 2017

steve_muzz said:
Yes and it means the game is limited to low income commanders who cannot afford to refit or buy new ships because they have to do something they don't want too.

That's a fair criticism. But I think that should be handled by balancing the existing gameplay routes rather than gelding one of them in order to conform. Surely it's not an easy thing to figure out though.

Jason Lightning · Jun 25, 2017

h347h said:
CQC though...

You may indeed have point about Thargoid related stuff but it is looking like they are going to also be optional as well. Thargoid fighting equipment sounds like new modules more so than mods though. So currently it might be a toss of if you are reliant on them to fight bugs.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/540/686/696.gif

CQC is a dead mode, no new ships, no new mechanics, basically it's forgotten.

CQC needs a mode that lets players bring in their own ships or quickbuild full size combat ships.

verminstar · Jun 25, 2017

steve_muzz said:
Yes you can ignore them BUT it's been made clear you'll need them for anything Thargoid related.

You need them to PvP now.

You need them to update your FSD which to be honest is a massive requirement to play. Look I'm not knocking engineers I just think the design and requirements don't suit half the community and go against lettings us play the way we want.

I ignore them entirely, dont dd pvp and spend most of my time exploring with a non modded fsd. If I felt an actual urgent need or requirement, it must have been an off day where I didnt feel anything...as in I have never once felt the need to indulge them. By all means, point out this "massive requirement" because Im really not seeing it. Does it mean I get all the hot girls and dancing puppies?

Cdr Voorheez · Jun 25, 2017

Yawn. I (we) choose engineers. It's choice. You choose to disagree. Your call. Old debate.

Muzz UK · Jun 25, 2017

Cdr Voorheez said:
Yawn. I (we) choose engineers. It's choice. You choose to disagree. Your call. Old debate.

It's not a choice if we need them to "Thargoid" sorry but its not a choice you have to engineer to have any chance in combat these days.

Para Handy · Jun 25, 2017

I have to agree in part with the gist of the OP.

F D obviously decided that you would have to be forced into certain modes of play in order to unlock each engineer. To me some of that "hoop-jumping" was/is incongruous as well as being a pain.

DefiledDragon · Jun 25, 2017

Ninj said:
You're free to ignore the engineers.

It makes up the bulk of the content of one of the major updates and goes against the core premise of the game. OP has a point, you just missed it.

m0rl0ck · Jun 25, 2017

steve_muzz said:
Ok so deep into engineers with lots of grade 5 upgrades available however I have to say half of it has not been enjoyable the rewards are very nice but some of it is just a grind, dull and a bit boring. You constantly have to refit your ship or buy other ships. Now lets get this straight I have over 1000 hours played I'm not in it for the grind I don't go out just to make credits or get engineer upgrades. I like to experience the universe I even have a VR headset. I've done trading, combat, long range exploring, mining, I have a faction I support and I enjoy all aspects the game BUT engineers and the way it works does not fit in with the game philosophy. Engineers takes your freedom away.

Engineers should be unlockable for each career path they should not have JUST ONE requirement... for example to unlock Farseer explorers can travel a certain distance, traders can provide her a certain commodity and combat pilots can do this based on bounties.

Elite Dangerous is sold on being able to make your own choices go where you want do as you please... Engineers destroys this meta... Engineers forces you to go mining it forces you to trade and it forces you to do things you do not want to. If you want engineers upgrades you have to do what is required.

Elite Dangerous:

PLAY YOUR WAY:
Experience infinite freedom as you earn the skill, knowledge, wealth and power to stand among the ranks of the Elite.

DAVID BRABEN KICKSTARTER:

Take a ship and 100 credits to make money legally or illegally - trade, bounty-hunt, pirate, assassinate your way across the galaxy. Play your way

Some examples of why engineers forces you to do things against your freedom

Trade at 50 different black martets - How many bounty hunters or mission runners do this?

Get 10 units of Painite - How many explorers or PvP players do this?

Gain exploration rank Surveyor or higher - How many traders or miners do this?

Gain combat rank Dangerous or higher - I rest my case[/I]

I agree the engineers are a travesty and pretty much nullifies every other positive the game has going for it. No doubt many have quit over it. I havent played in weeks and thats mostly due to the engineers. I plan on checking in after the new patch and if the mission system hasnt picked up some polish im done.
Oh and btw, if you have a problem with the engineers and think posting here will make any difference, save yourself the effort.

kofeyh · Jun 25, 2017

Cdr Voorheez said:
Yawn. I (we) choose engineers. It's choice. You choose to disagree. Your call. Old debate.

It won't be a choice for thargoids. It'll be a virtual requirement to interact in any number of ways. At what point do you take a step back and realise Frontier have been slowly, quietly moving all game mechanics to rely on engineering?

It's subtle. And yes you can elect to ignore it now. And perhaps to some degree with the Thargoid arrival. But at least some aspects will 100% require engineering. It'll cease to be optional. Things are changing and engineering may eventually become a virtual requirement for almost any action.

Will you be so blasé about it then? I don't really agree with the OP entirely. But you'd have to be blind to not see how much of the game has become reliant on engineering.

Aldaris · Jun 25, 2017

steve_muzz said:
It's not a choice if we need them to "Thargoid" sorry but its not a choice you have to engineer to have any chance in combat these days.

They said multiple things about Thargoids. New equipment AND mods. The former doesn't necessarily mean they will be supplied by Engineers.

You also don't have to engage with the Thargoid content.

Everything is still optional. Issue averted

DefiledDragon said:
It makes up the bulk of the content of one of the major updates and goes against the core premise of the game. OP has a point, you just missed it.

Not every update can appease everyone. Also, how does it go against the core concept?