I think if the other player is a pledged to an opposing power then the proposed bounty system should not apply. Yes Powerplay pvp happens outside control systems and in enemy HQ territory as well. This should not punish natural side effect of a headline game feature.....expecially one that's heavily combat focused like powerplay. It's something that someone who wants to look for "meaningful" or pvp "with purpose" to go find some action without just being a "murder hobo" or "griefer". This needs to be thought out and considered, just sayin
Powerplay Powerplay should be exempt from the new Pilots Federation Bounties
- Thread starter thearmysredneck
- Start date
I don't think PP considerations should hobble C&P.
If there is a simple way to avoid a clash then great, if not then a good C&P system should take priority over PP.
If there is a simple way to avoid a clash then great, if not then a good C&P system should take priority over PP.
Undermine in an anarchy system. In solo. I don't think anyone bothers with powerplay in open, as solo is considerably more efficient and far less risk. So just undermine in solo. Murdering endless AI won't get you the PF bounties anyway. So go crazy. Solo. Anarchy. Have fun.
I gave up on powerplay when I realised it was just a method to gain dodgy weapons and defence modules with a truely ridiculous rate of loss per week.
Frontier have decided to make PVP expensive, and yet the PF bounties will almost certainly be capped, which means it won't have any appreciable affect at all. Mostly it just screws over pirates. Again.
Anarchy. The OP can go to an Anarchy system and not have to care. If they only shoot at AI they don't have to care. C&P isn't relevant in Anarchy.
I gave up on powerplay when I realised it was just a method to gain dodgy weapons and defence modules with a truely ridiculous rate of loss per week.
Frontier have decided to make PVP expensive, and yet the PF bounties will almost certainly be capped, which means it won't have any appreciable affect at all. Mostly it just screws over pirates. Again.
Anarchy. The OP can go to an Anarchy system and not have to care. If they only shoot at AI they don't have to care. C&P isn't relevant in Anarchy.
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An assassin is still subject to the law and the punishment of the law despite being paid and or hired by a power or super-power. Why should Elite be different? That's a rhetorical question by the way.
OP is SO right.
I don't like the proposed change but being subject to persecution for the actions that are expected from your power is ridiculous. If you are a pledged to a power you are supposed to oppose the well... opposing powers. That includes destroying ships (the undermining).
The proposed system is flawed.
I don't like the proposed change but being subject to persecution for the actions that are expected from your power is ridiculous. If you are a pledged to a power you are supposed to oppose the well... opposing powers. That includes destroying ships (the undermining).
The proposed system is flawed.
VampyreGTX
Volunteer Moderator
PP should DEFINITELY take priority over the new PvP bounty system! Why shouldn't CMDRs be able to defend their power!? If you are pledged to an opposing power your actions and direction in the game is to make your power as strong as possible, at the cost of the other power. Why should I not be able to defend my pledged power?! Why are NPCs flagged as 'Enemy' but Enemy CMDRs shouldn't be? If you don't want a CMDR to be able to attack another CMDR to defend their hard work then FDev should just remove, PMFs, PP, CG's etc. or any aspect of the game that pits CMDRs work against another CMDRs work.
I can pull over 2500 merits per hour UM'ing a low-med sec system, 1500-1800 in a high-sec... yeah. Join an organized PP group and you'll realize there is a LOT to PP.
As for your Solo/PG comment.... I still think that PP and BGS should ONLY be OPEN (or as Sandro previously suggested, a significant boost for PP actions undertaken in Open) but that's another.
The way we run Hudson (reddit/Fed Unified Command discord) we highly encourage our CMDRs to play in open with PvP wings essentially acting as CAP/Escorts when possible. I know plenty of CMDRs in other powers that also play in open (though some powers are WAY to reliant on PG/Solo however as well)
The C&P system SHOULD definitely punish griefers/gankers' but not other gameplay that is functioning as intended.
Going to be interesting in seeing if/how this works.
While a player from Power A mindlessly attacking a player from Power B in the middle of nowhere should mean accountability, obviously doing it on a "battlefront" between A and B shouldn't be. That should be fully legal combat...
Let's see what FD do
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Going to be interesting in seeing if/how this works.
While a player from Power A mindlessly attacking a player from Power B in the middle of nowhere should mean accountability, obviously doing it on a "battlefront" between A and B shouldn't be. That should be fully legal combat...
Let's see what FD do
Frontier won't do anything. Because practically all undermining happens in Anarchy. And in solo. Making the entire thing an irrelevance. They pretty much don't have to care. Piracy is a bit boned, but PP is just fine.
Sure. Some still fight the inevitable realisation and try and action PP in open. But this just causes other commanders caught in the crossfire to confuse it with "ganking", even if they are in an opposing faction.
There are always exceptions. But almost all PP occurs in solo, with the remaining major chunk in PG. Sandro says a lot of things, but they will never do anything to make Open a more viable place for PP. Far far too many player groups would protest.
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VampyreGTX
Volunteer Moderator
Going to be interesting in seeing if/how this works.
While a player from Power A mindlessly attacking a player from Power B in the middle of nowhere should mean accountability, obviously doing it on a "battlefront" between A and B shouldn't be. That should be fully legal combat...
Let's see what FD do
But now what if Player B is heading back to his control system with UMing merits, or heading with fortifications to secure their systems? We shouldn't be able to intercept them enroute to prevent that?
VampyreGTX
Volunteer Moderator
STOP with the UMing only happend in Anarchy! Have you payed ANY attention to Powerplay since you're so vocal on it? So the 33 or so systems UM'ed in Torval 2 cycles ago were all anarchy?! Or Antal and LYR in the weeks prior? Or Hudson, Winters, ALD, AD, Mahon, Grom, Patty over the last cycles?! Give me a break, there is a large and dedicated group of CMDRs in each power that actually PLAY powerplay.
Who knows...
At the end of the day the biggest puzzle with C&P (karma) IMHO is when combat is legal or illegal.
ie: You attack me in the middle of no where, and I have no bounty? Illegal!
We're both signed up to opposing CGs, and both in the designated system? That's legal!
You're on Power A, I'm on Power B, we meet at Beagle Point? Surely that's illegal?
The fun for PP is, deeming where in contended power systems it's legal and illegal?
I don't know enough about Powerplay to comment really...
I'm sure Sando's got a good solution! Sandro?
ps: I think illegal destruction even in anarchy systems should be held accountable. I see no gain for this not being the case. I also believe the illegal destruction of NPCs should be held accountable too!
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I don't see why the Pilot's Federation should apply to Powerplay conflicts between players. Both have opted in to the system, and both should know that by doing so, you're also opting in to be attacked by members of rival powers. It's a pity you can't earn merits by defeating other Power Play players in combat.
(I still think you should be able to earn merits for BGS and mission oriented play in Power Play too, but that's OT.)
(I still think you should be able to earn merits for BGS and mission oriented play in Power Play too, but that's OT.)
It does seem extremely dumb if one attacks say an Empire player as a Federation Powerplay supporter and becomes wanted in Federation space because of C&P.
Powerplay is an opt-in system anyway, there's even a disclaimer about how you may be shot by opposing groups, it shouldn't be punished by C&P for actions that everyone agreed to signing up.
Powerplay is an opt-in system anyway, there's even a disclaimer about how you may be shot by opposing groups, it shouldn't be punished by C&P for actions that everyone agreed to signing up.
VampyreGTX
Volunteer Moderator
LOL, after the roasting he got from his Open v Solo/PG post....
Not sure how willing on giving his opinions on PvP, Open, Solo, etc. he is! LOL
I have the opinion that the C&P should complement Powerplay actually.
In the real world, you have the Federal Law (country-wide). Then there's State Law (for your state). No matter your affiliation to whichever corporations (powerplay faction), shooting at people is against the law (state and federal). I tend to think of PP in simplistic terms like "Gang A, loyal to Boss A, Gang B loyal to Boss B".
So even if there's a full-on "Gang War" going on outside your house, it's still against State and/or Federal Law.
So applying it to ED, no matter who you pledged to, shooting at and killing members of opposing faction might be rewarded by your faction, but it *IS* illegal in Federal/Imperial law. You're just being rewarded by Boss A for doing a good job wiping out Boss B's guys. So, the Pilot's Federation bounty should apply, IMHO.
The interesting bit is that C&P should make system security levels MEAN SOMETHING. One should be safe in a Democracy/Corporate State. If people take pot-shots at you, the cops should respond with overwhelming force. Yes, even if Gang A is shooting at Gang B ("take it elsewhere!"), fully sanctioned by their respective gangs. In Medium security systems, maybe the overwhelming force isn't that overwhelming.. maybe cops are short-staffed, or maybe they can be bribed to look the other way. In low-sec systems (feudal systems?), well the cops prefer to be living cowards than dead enforcers.
How is this "complementing" anything? Well now you have to think a bit more right? Like where to do your PP stuff? Or if you insist on doing them in high-sec systems, make sure you're fitted correctly to at least survive the overwhelming force. Or hop in a sidey to do the PP stuff in a High-Sec system
In the real world, you have the Federal Law (country-wide). Then there's State Law (for your state). No matter your affiliation to whichever corporations (powerplay faction), shooting at people is against the law (state and federal). I tend to think of PP in simplistic terms like "Gang A, loyal to Boss A, Gang B loyal to Boss B".
So even if there's a full-on "Gang War" going on outside your house, it's still against State and/or Federal Law.
So applying it to ED, no matter who you pledged to, shooting at and killing members of opposing faction might be rewarded by your faction, but it *IS* illegal in Federal/Imperial law. You're just being rewarded by Boss A for doing a good job wiping out Boss B's guys. So, the Pilot's Federation bounty should apply, IMHO.
The interesting bit is that C&P should make system security levels MEAN SOMETHING. One should be safe in a Democracy/Corporate State. If people take pot-shots at you, the cops should respond with overwhelming force. Yes, even if Gang A is shooting at Gang B ("take it elsewhere!"), fully sanctioned by their respective gangs. In Medium security systems, maybe the overwhelming force isn't that overwhelming.. maybe cops are short-staffed, or maybe they can be bribed to look the other way. In low-sec systems (feudal systems?), well the cops prefer to be living cowards than dead enforcers.
How is this "complementing" anything? Well now you have to think a bit more right? Like where to do your PP stuff? Or if you insist on doing them in high-sec systems, make sure you're fitted correctly to at least survive the overwhelming force. Or hop in a sidey to do the PP stuff in a High-Sec system
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I spent a lot of time in powerplay, and at one point undermining in Anarchy became the natural conclusion. I'm sure every single one of those 33 systems were done in Open too, right? Of course they were.
Save me the sanctimonious attitude. Most of that happened in solo. Where it cannot be stopped. That's the point. There's no resistance in solo, because the AI won't stop it happening. Only commanders can.
The fact that so many systems can be undermined, only goes to show how rampant the Solo only mode use is for PP. Ergo it's pretty much irrelevant as the C&P changes are only impacting commanders. It doesn't apply to AI.
Effectively, frontier are adding more consequences to open and pg, clobbering piracy and ignoring the situation in solo.
Neil it's not illegal to destroy another ship in Anarchy. That's the point. And you can't tell people to sod off to anarchy if they want to fight then turn around and make that illegal too. That's just being facetious, and very inconsistent. And frankly we get enough of that from frontier, we don't need players adding to it.
Solo is essentially free of the C&P changes. Given that's where most PP happens (I'm pretty sure Frontier are well aware of that by now, given how many player groups they interact with) it's unlikely to have much of an impact, frankly.
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PP is a broken niche activity only continued by those who are completely invested in it or temporarily done to get some bling modules.
A decent C&P system is not just 'PvP Bounty Hunting', it's a potential way to balance relative risk across systems and if implemented properly could reinvigorate Open for everyone who wants it.
I know which one should get priority if there isn't a workaround that doesn't hamper PP.
Why are people "sodding off" to Anarchy systems to fight? Are these "friendly" PvP fights? Or actually something within the game for some reason/purpose?
If it's the former, just turn off reporting?
What sort of fighting are we talking about happening with anarchy systems we don't want to hold accountable to a C&P mechanic?
I have the opinion that the C&P should complement Powerplay actually.
In the real world, you have the Federal Law (country-wide). Then there's State Law (for your state). No matter your affiliation to whichever corporations (powerplay faction), shooting at people is against the law (state and federal). I tend to think of PP in simplistic terms like "Gang A, loyal to Boss A, Gang B loyal to Boss B".
So even if there's a full-on "Gang War" going on outside your house, it's still against State and/or Federal Law.
So applying it to ED, no matter who you pledged to, shooting at and killing members of opposing faction might be rewarded by your faction, but it *IS* illegal in Federal/Imperial law. You're just being rewarded by Boss A for doing a good job wiping out Boss B's guys. So, the Pilot's Federation bounty should apply, IMHO.
The interesting bit is that C&P should make system security levels MEAN SOMETHING. One should be safe in a Democracy/Corporate State. If people take pot-shots at you, the cops should respond with overwhelming force. Yes, even if Gang A is shooting at Gang B ("take it elsewhere!"), fully sanctioned by their respective gangs. In Medium security systems, maybe the overwhelming force isn't that overwhelming.. maybe cops are short-staffed, or maybe they can be bribed to look the other way. In low-sec systems (feudal systems?), well the cops prefer to be living cowards than dead enforcers.
How is this "complementing" anything? Well now you have to think a bit more right? Like where to do your PP stuff? Or if you insist on doing them in high-sec systems, make sure you're fitted correctly to at least survive the overwhelming force. Or hop in a sidey to do the PP stuff in a High-Sec system
Yes, Powerplay should offer legal combat! It should be offering nice interesting combat scenarios pushing CMDRs from two Powers against each other... legally!
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Funny thing, this thread. First we got a guy claiming he spent lots of time in powerplay and at the same breath talking about anarchy UMing. Dude, powerplay is not grinding modules / rank5, pp is about targets. I can't remember when we had a luxury of operating in anarchy during our organised operations...
Secondly someone talks about not attacking clean imp commander in fed space... Dude, they are marked as enemy and you can shoot them to your heart's content, and if they fire back they are instantly wanted.
So, yeah. If by powerplay you mean grinding R5 for 50mln then you're probably right. I can name two systems out of memory Biliri and Bielonti (may have changed since). But these gems were rare on our hitlists...EDIT: Oh, and you cannot wing in solo. PG was used only in super secret circumstances.
Secondly someone talks about not attacking clean imp commander in fed space... Dude, they are marked as enemy and you can shoot them to your heart's content, and if they fire back they are instantly wanted.
So, yeah. If by powerplay you mean grinding R5 for 50mln then you're probably right. I can name two systems out of memory Biliri and Bielonti (may have changed since). But these gems were rare on our hitlists...EDIT: Oh, and you cannot wing in solo. PG was used only in super secret circumstances.
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