Community Event / Creation Buckyball Racing Club presents: The A* Challenge

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So, I don't really have the same disorientation issues as you, but I would say that going in slowly is actually my preferred tactic for reliably getting a boost. I tend to assume that the moment I've entered the cone I have little-to-zero control over where the ship's going to go or how it's going to behave, so basically I should aim to be going slow enough that I'll get a boost whatever happens, and then sort everything out on the other side.

Still, it's definitely a shame to hear that it's affecting you so heavily. My personal opinion would be that you should definitely try to figure out what's going on and see if there's some way you can mitigate it - it'd be great to see more runs from you as always. :)
With all that said, obviously if it's causing you physical discomfort to try it then don't let us pressure you into it!

Oh, and I absolutely agree with the others about Haulin' A* - it's absolutely a classic ship, and I think it'd be a great shame to see her vanish into the ether. I mean hell, I've kept my T7, and I've done pretty much nothing with that ship since taking it to Sadge! :p

Oh, I'm definitely going to experiment with it and try to figure out the problem. Now that I'm... a little less depressed, and starting to think about the problem, I have some ideas on experiments I can do to help me figure out what causes it and how to fight it.

(Actually, I feel... pretty good right now. Not out of the woods yet by any stretch - waaaaay too soon for that - but... the things y'all have said have buoyed me quite a bit. It's... depression poisons your thoughts. It strips away meaning and purpose and value and makes everything seem hollow. Hearing from others that your efforts have meaning to them is definitely the best antidote. And... I've had a bit of that at work today, too, which definitely also helps. My natural stubbornness has started to kick in, and it won't let me quit.)

Besides, part of my backstory for how Tim ended up with Haulin' A* to begin with is that CMDR Moonshadow only agreed to sell her if Tim promised to defend her honor. So, if I'm going to keep her, I have to at least make my best effort to do that. If it turns out not to be enough, then there's no dishonor in that... but I have to try.

That said... Cortana first! Then Excalibur, probably. And then I can devote to Haulin' A* the time she deserves.
 
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...and to everyone in this forum those non-boosted records are always meaningful. My own personal best AspX time is rather old these days - I had my eye on the 9-hour barrier before Shizuka and Rusti beat me to it...

So writing the above got me thinking, and it has been a long time, but I've still got my planning spreadsheet somewhere. So...

Intent to run:

CMDR Raiko
The Nomad (Asp Explorer)
Classic Class

I'd never intended to make another non-engineered run once the 9-hour challenge had been done by Shizuka, but I may as well try one last time to reclaim the classic Asp record from Rusti.

I should have time during the weekend in two weeks time. No neutron stars will be used during this run.
 
So writing the above got me thinking, and it has been a long time, but I've still got my planning spreadsheet somewhere. So...

Intent to run:

CMDR Raiko
The Nomad (Asp Explorer)
Classic Class

I'd never intended to make another non-engineered run once the 9-hour challenge had been done by Shizuka, but I may as well try one last time to reclaim the classic Asp record from Rusti.

I should have time during the weekend in two weeks time. No neutron stars will be used during this run.

Can't rep you again yet, but... o7

Just that hammer down and give it hell!
 
Just an update for you all.

The history thingy I'm writing got put on hiatus as I dealt with real life issues. I still have all my bookmarks thankfully but my intention is to knuckle down after the weekend and get it typed up properly. I'm hoping that this will perhaps alleviate some concerns that people feel their records become meaningless upon being beaten by a NS-Boosted run etc.

Everyones time means something. Be it an 18 hour run from someone who overshot Sag A* without realising (totally didn't happen to me the very first time I went there... honest), or a sub 8 hour time in an unengineered Anaconda. These times all mean something, whether it be the pilots pushing their ships to their limits, or the trip pushing the pilot to his/her limits. Hell, even Matoklas 200+ day trip means something.

Also: Petition FD to put in a function to display proof so we can get Classic, Standard and Unlimited boards put up :D
 
Just an update for you all.

The history thingy I'm writing got put on hiatus as I dealt with real life issues. I still have all my bookmarks thankfully but my intention is to knuckle down after the weekend and get it typed up properly. I'm hoping that this will perhaps alleviate some concerns that people feel their records become meaningless upon being beaten by a NS-Boosted run etc.

Everyones time means something. Be it an 18 hour run from someone who overshot Sag A* without realising (totally didn't happen to me the very first time I went there... honest), or a sub 8 hour time in an unengineered Anaconda. These times all mean something, whether it be the pilots pushing their ships to their limits, or the trip pushing the pilot to his/her limits. Hell, even Matoklas 200+ day trip means something.

Also: Petition FD to put in a function to display proof so we can get Classic, Standard and Unlimited boards put up :D

I wholeheartedly agree with you - every run is significant.

The Challenge is kind of like running a marathon. It means something different to everyone who does it.

Just completing the Challenge - especially in Classic - is an accomplishment to be proud of. It requires patience, determination, nerve, and skill. Only a very small percentage of players will ever do it. Most players would probably think the very idea is insane, if they were aware of the Challenge at all.

I urge everyone who is interested in the true Challenge experience to complete a run in Classic. Even if you aren't chasing a record, there are aspects of the Challenge which can be largely avoided in Unlimited - notably, the endurance aspects. Flying a ship for 8, or 12, or 15 hours straight is tiring. Fatigue becomes a factor, and is part of the challenge of the Challenge. My first run was almost 14 hours and I remember well how exhausted I was at the end.

For some Classic ships, just completing the Challenge at all is an especially impressive accomplishment due to the need to find a viable route across the spiral arms. I'll freely admit that I just don't have the patience to run an FdL in Classic, even though I'd really like to own that record as it's my favorite ship - anyone who actually completes that gets special respect from me, above that I already give to anyone who has completed the Challenge.

Some of us, who have already completed our first Challenge runs, feel compelled to shoot for even higher goals. For some it might be a particular time to beat. For some it's getting as close to the top of the overall leaderboard as they can.

For me, that goal is pushing a ship to the limit of its potential - posting a time that represents the absolute potential of that ship. Of course, true perfection is unattainable in a run that will take hours on end, especially as fatigue sets in toward the end... but the aim is to get as close to that absolute number as reasonably possible. Of course, we can only estimate what those numbers are... and sometimes our estimates are wrong, as was the case the first time Shizuka broke the DBX record with a time faster than anyone else thought possible.

That's what I accomplished in my Hauler runs. In fact, the whole reason I made the second (9:35:22) run was because after the 9:36:19 run I discovered something I could have done differently that would have made me just a little bit faster. As you can imagine, I'm very proud of that achievement.

This also shapes my primary objection to neutron star boosting being allowed in Classic - it allows a run like my 9:35 in the Hauler, or Alot's iconic 7:56, to be supplanted in the record book by a run which is less perfect than it was. I'll even acknowledge that a neutron star run requires more skill by its nature... but to me, the Challenge isn't just a test of skill. It's a test of consistency and endurance - can you make that near-perfect scoop and jump time after time after time after time? Can you do it when fatigue sets in? Can you do it when you're up against your target time, and every second counts? Can you regain that form quickly after you make a mistake, or do you let that mistake linger?

It may be that I see the Challenge this way because this is a singularly difficult thing for me to do. Maybe I view it as an exercise in discipline, in overcoming the challenges of ADHD. Maybe it's just because I'm a notorious perfectionist. I'll even admit that in my case, some part of it is a desire to be acknowledged, as well. To be one of the best, in the eyes of my peers. And if I'm brutally honest with myself, that is the selfish part of my reason for being upset about what is currently happening. But that's not all of the reason, and I hope I'm not deluding myself when I say that's not most of it.

But... that's what I mean by it having a different meaning for everyone. We all have our own motivations that push us to do this crazy thing we do. We all have our reasons for taking on the Challenge.

In the end, we have to be true to who we are, and to the reasons we do this. As long as I keep my reason for doing this in sight, I can avoid pitfalls like the one I'm climbing out of right now.
 
I feel ya Rankaze, I really do.

I feel no shame in admitting that I feel a great sense of pride when someone acknowledges my Xbox record, while at the other end, feel put out when people don't acknowledge it. It's not anyones fault, and I don't mean to get people to start rubbing my ego for me, I'm just hoping to show I know exactly what you mean.

Of course, that said, I'm having thoughts about putting a pre-NS boost leaderboard into the mix to hopefully help with your concerns Rankaze, as well as the silent ones who may be feeling the same way. It will strictly be limited to ship records to keep it as small as possible. Hopefully this will serve to help immortalise the purist (couldn't think of a better word) records. Although feel free to say if it's a bad idea?
 
I feel ya Rankaze, I really do.

I feel no shame in admitting that I feel a great sense of pride when someone acknowledges my Xbox record, while at the other end, feel put out when people don't acknowledge it. It's not anyones fault, and I don't mean to get people to start rubbing my ego for me, I'm just hoping to show I know exactly what you mean.

Of course, that said, I'm having thoughts about putting a pre-NS boost leaderboard into the mix to hopefully help with your concerns Rankaze, as well as the silent ones who may be feeling the same way. It will strictly be limited to ship records to keep it as small as possible. Hopefully this will serve to help immortalise the purist (couldn't think of a better word) records. Although feel free to say if it's a bad idea?

I wouldn't be opposed to it, certainly, though I have to admit - as Drakhyr said - right now we haven't had any Classic records eclipsed. Even if we all strongly suspect the first of those will be soon, there isn't really a point to doing it for one person.

What I would be very interested in seeing is a record of what the leaderboard looked like at each major patch release. Possibly as part of the history. After all, every patch changes the game in its own way.

Also, if there is anything I can do to assist you with your work on the history, PM me. I'd be happy to help.
 
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What I would be very interested in seeing is a record of what the leaderboard looked like at each major patch release. Possibly as part of the history. After all, every patch changes the game in its own way.

BTW, Luke, all the leaderboard updates I've ever done are online as imgur albums, so if the boards I've done line up with the updates (or any other dates desired) just let me know and I can send you the links. Likewise, I can make a copy of the leaderboard spreadsheet available.
 
Been out the loop a little while as I'm in the process of settling into a new job and attempting to move house, but I'd like to mention again that I feel that any FSD boosting should lump your time in with the "Unlimited" lot.

When I set off on my "engineered to the hilt - but none of those tricksy neutron star" runs I knew full well that my time would only last as long as the next guy that fancied a crack at neutron boosting. (Or for that matter anyone that puts longer than 30 seconds into planning a route...)

By all means go out after my engineered haulers time using neutrons, I'd love to the the comparison! But...

Classic should remain just as it started. A stripped down ship and a slightly loose grip on sanity.
 
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Route plotted.

As much as I love the FdL, there are times when I think the Imperial Eagle might be the best-looking ship in the game. This... is one of those times.

AqqC2nm.jpg

Of course, as I'm sitting here, I realize that ultimately this still doesn't satisfy my goal, as someone can go and synthesize AFMU ammo if they really want to use a neutron star route on an Unlimited Imperial Eagle. But y'know... it'll do until I figure out how to get over my problems with neutron stars... and then I'll take care of that little thing myself.
 
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Just finished my Hauler run and turns out Jhyrryl was somewhat closer to the actual time than my initial expectations!

6 hours, 27 minutes and 39 seconds


411 jumps total of which 178 were neutron boosts. Thoughts later, too tired now.

That's very impressive. Please forgive me if I'm less than enthusiastic about saying it, but I must acknowledge that this is quite an accomplishment.

Your average time per jump (just over 55 seconds) was far better than I had projected; your total jumps were only marginally lower than what I thought was possible (substantially lower than what I got from Spansh, but I had assumed somewhat better routes were possible). This is to say, where I went wrong in my projections wasn't so much about the routing as about how quickly the route can be run.

You have obviously gotten very good at making neutron star jumps quickly, which makes me despair a bit because I cannot imagine how you are doing it.

This does effectively demonstrate that FSD supercharging produces a fundamentally different race.

After plotting my Imperial Eagle run, which will be 746 jumps at 35.87ly (compared to 767 for Haulin' A* at 35.43, I am convinced of something now: the changes to the route plotter enabling it to use a ship's full jump range produces routes sufficiently more efficient to offset the 2.2 hyperspace changes, and taking a Hauler under 9:30 the conventional way is definitely possible. Sadly, I no longer have any incentive to prove it.
 
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Just finished my Hauler run and turns out Jhyrryl was somewhat closer to the actual time than my initial expectations!

6 hours, 27 minutes and 39 seconds


411 jumps total of which 178 were neutron boosts. Thoughts later, too tired now.

Congrat's ... that's a hell of a time. News of your run hit the Buckyball gang in the Lavecon LAN room just as we were packing up.
 
I'm putting this in a new post because I want Allitnil to see it, and if he's already read my other post he might not notice an edit:

I'm... having a hard time giving your run the kind of high praise that it deserves because of my personal feelings about the circumstances, but... it does deserve high praise.

Thank you. Being pushed off the board by a truly exceptional run makes it easier to accept than it might have been otherwise.
 
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Just finished my Hauler run and turns out Jhyrryl was somewhat closer to the actual time than my initial expectations!

6 hours, 27 minutes and 39 seconds

Actually, my motivation is more to show just how OP neutron boosting can be. I've done that with the engineered Conda and people said it wouldn't apply to the stock ships. I showed it with the stock DBX and people said it wouldn't apply to the Hauler. So I'm going to do it.

I would say that it is well and truly shown. Excellent job, Allitnil!

(That said, if this doesn't prove that Neutron Star jumping isn't OP, nothing will. Consider that ALOT'S record for Classic fell easily to the fourth-best ship for the A* Challenge, by using neutron star boosting. Seriously, these need separation.)
 
I would say that it is well and truly shown. Excellent job, Allitnil!

(That said, if this doesn't prove that Neutron Star jumping isn't OP, nothing will. Consider that ALOT'S record for Classic fell easily to the fourth-best ship for the A* Challenge, by using neutron star boosting. Seriously, these need separation.)

Agreed. That was why, in my earlier posts, I thought Neutron Boosts WAS already a "separate" category. It just seemed logical, natural.
 
First off, Congrats to Allitnil on his run. Congratulations are in order.

Secondly. I have stuff to show you guys. I've been typing furiously since about 1200/1300ish and while I hesitate to show a 'work in progress' usually, I think about a month of waiting from you guys deserves to at least show I've got something done. Right now, I've simply typed up to the creation of this challenge. It might be too much and unecessary but I figured put it there and it can be removed later, rather than have to put it in after the fact.

That said, there are some dates missing which I can't find. So if anyone has those to hand, excellent.

In the meantime I hope you enjoy
Disclaimer: I don't know how to disable edits in a Google Doc. I'm trusting you guys here :)
 
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First off, Congrats to Allitnil on his run. Congratulations are in order.

Secondly. I have stuff to show you guys. I've been typing furiously since about 1200/1300ish and while I hesitate to show a 'work in progress' usually, I think about a month of waiting from you guys deserves to at least show I've got something done. Right now, I've simply typed up to the creation of this challenge. It might be too much and unecessary but I figured put it there and it can be removed later, rather than have to put it in after the fact.

That said, there are some dates missing which I can't find. So if anyone has those to hand, excellent.

In the meantime I hope you enjoy
Disclaimer: I don't know how to disable edits in a Google Doc. I'm trusting you guys here :)

Nice! I've slapped a PDF copy on my laptop to proof read on the train for you.
 
Although I have officially entered my run into the Classic class (since it does conform to those rules), I am going to ask that it - and all other neutron boosted runs - be placed in the Ultimate leaderboard. It really doesn't make sense for a separate leaderboard for just one entry (!) so reclassifying it as Ultimate makes more sense to me. Perhaps with a note that a non-engineered ship was used? In addition, having such runs in Ultimate does allow for stock neutron runs to be done in some other ships such as the Sidey and Eagle where AFMU synthesis would be necessary to do a meaningful number of jumps.

I do hope that more people will make neutron runs using stock ships. Removing the RNG of Engineers is better for pure competition IMHO and I for one like that loadout and route plotting becomes more of an element compared to non-neutron runs. Right now there isn't much need to really optimise a route but that could become necessary if there was good competition. Maybe I'm unusual in really liking that aspect, but I think it does add an extra element to the challenge over and above it being an endurance event.

The route I used for this run had little in the way of real optimisation (*). I had initially looked at getting to the neutron stars as soon as possible in the run but I soon came to realise that the general star density at +/- 1000 LY from the galactic plane between the Orion Spur and Saggitarius-Carina Arm is just not friendly to a 30 LY ship. It's not just the neutron stars themselves but that when you need to refuel it can be hard to find a suitable star where you can normal jump to the next neutron! Therefore I decided to head out using normal jumps to the edge of the Saggitarius-Carina Arm at about 4,500 LY toward Sag A*. That took 188 jumps and 2 hours 18 minutes of my run time so putting me well behind a normal run. But from then on it was full speed ahead and I was hitting 6k per hour once within 10K of the destination. When choosing the next neutron star it was purely based on distance and even if it was a horrible little wispy thing I didn't go back and try another one. The only real attempt at optimisation was the final couple of K where I was using spansh.co.uk to suggest options although the routing was still totally manual.

* - case in point, it was only after starting that I realised that I should have used bookmarks for the early part of the route and that I hadn't even got Sag A* bookmarked :eek::eek:

The run itself went well. My initial thoughts had been that it would be a low 8 hour maybe sub 8 run. Early on I decided that 7:30 was about right. After completing the route and using some trial timings I had an estimate of 6:35 but I was consistently ahead of that. Some time was lost to comfort breaks (really shouldn't drink so much coffee before starting...) and once when I started repairing the FSD at the end of a refuelling stop when it wasn't necessary. All told those added up to only a couple of minutes though. The actual neutron jumping went better than expected with an average time of just 62.8 seconds per jump, much faster than possible in a Conda. Which leads me to wonder whether a stock DBX could actually compete with a stock Conda - for sure the DBX loses loads of time when refuelling but it should be able to make up several seconds per jump. My gut feeling is that the Conda would win but not by much at all.

If anyone is interested in the nitty gritty, here's a spreadsheet with the entire run extracted from EDD with some additional timing metrics https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1q_PSwqnhzjb7-Dmyiy_c5I_14dINhl3mKbxEVs96WSc/edit?usp=sharing


I do have a recording of the whole thing. If anyone is mad enough to want to view it please suggest how best to upload it as the raw file is 7.7 GB!
 
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