FAS vs FDL (Missing step?)

-Overview
Have been trying out PvP/Getting attacked :p and its interesting (PvP not really my idea of fun). Always liked the FAS and not a fan of the FDL, just because of the cockpit view. Have had a look at the FDL and its a great ship, really fills a needed area of medium combat ships (even though its not a designated combat ship) in that range. That's where I find issue, It feels like something is missing in that range.

The last designated fighter, something with agility seems to be the FAS at;
-20 million (ish)
-2 lager hard point and 2 medium

The next step up is the Python and/or the FDL at twice the cost, and with the FLD, when it comes to combat, the extra cash feels like its spent well. The python can be a good combat ship with some work, but like-for-like skills, it not in the same class for combat as the FDL, so will discount it from this comparison (Python is the best Delivery ship in my opinion). Also the Gunship is not what I would call a fighter/strike ship ... not really the same type of dog fighting ships as the FDL and FAS... It has its place (Super base attack ship) but for ship vs ship, its no a step up from the FAS.


-How I see the FAS and FDL roles
The FLD is a shield tank, it has a good number of utilities and space for a class 6 shield + class 6 SCB. The hard point load out works out well, and if i'm correct, a class 4 hard point works out equal (or nearly) to two class 3. its a monster, especially in skilled hands. Its speed and maneuverability are on par with the FAS... it's the shielded upgrade from the FAS

The FAS costs lest, repair is less, it a mass produce military unit. For it cost, it can't be beat. It's fast, even when its turned into a hull tank. With its two class 3 hard point, it packs a punch (as long as you flying sideways, so you can land both hits :p). Love the cockpit, feels like a fighter.

-The issue
I'm getting into PvP and all I come across are FDLs, some I beat, some walk all over me (I let them challenge me, i don't go looking for targets). It feels as though, anyone on the same skill level I am (I hope to get better) will win in a FDL vs FAS, and I guess that's fair, looking at the ship costs and load outs... But, its a shame, if I wanted to be on an equal footing, for such things as defending a CG , I would have to get into a FDL. Something is missing.

I though the Feds where the military of the galaxy, yet they don't seem to have a high spec, special forces, strike fighter on par with the FDL... a ship anyone can get their hands one if they have the cash. Also that there is not a real hull tank alternative to the FDL at this level.

I can still hold my own in the FAS, but... maybe its ocd or something... Why haven't the federal navy got a ship that is on par with a civilian ship in that range?

Am I missing something, just need more 'git guds' or is it the case that we must all end up in FDLs?
 
FAS can be a match for fdl but it requires a lot of armour engineering with especially good rolls for armour.
Fully fit it's about half the price of a pvp fdl though.
 
FAS can be a match for fdl but it requires a lot of armour engineering with especially good rolls for armour.
Fully fit it's about half the price of a pvp fdl though.

i know it can be a match, i would say i have a 2/3 victory rate against FLDs, but i think that's down to skill levels and not ship comparisons.

have you tried both ships ?
 
FGS is like the brute-force edition of the Core Dynamics line. The DAKKA DAKKA BOAT. It can carry a fighter which just ups the amount of damage being sent downrange. And it's not shockingly bad with thruster engineering.

FAS is nimble, and has speed, which is sometimes of benefit but it's essentially compromised due to FDL being given just about every advantage possible, including speed and now pretty great agility. But FAS Just can't stack on the pounds like FGS and FDS, both of which have hulls to die for (literally, in some cases) and can carry more reinforcements.

FDL is chosen a lot, simply because it has practically everything people have asked for, and gains a huge amount (almost disproportionate) from engineering.
 
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FGS is like the brute-force edition of the Core Dynamics line. The DAKKA DAKKA BOAT. It can carry a fighter which just ups the amount of damage being sent downrange. And it's not shockingly bad with thruster engineering.

FAS is nimble, and has speed, which is sometimes of benefit but it's essentially compromised due to FDL being given just about every advantage possible, including speed and now pretty great agility. But FAS Just can't stack on the pounds like FGS and FDS, both of which have hulls to die for (literally, in some cases) and can carry more reinforcements.

FDL is chosen a lot, simply because it has practically everything people have asked for, and gains a huge amount (almost disproportionate) from engineering.

not sure about the FGS, could try it when missions are fixed and i can get CIF :p

but i worry about its speed... when facing a FLD with prismatics, if i don't get in a ram or two, them shield are not coming down.

The FAS lets me get a ram in and some thermal frag cannons (unless the opponent is really good), feels like the ramming is its most powerful weapon vs shields
 
i know it can be a match, i would say i have a 2/3 victory rate against FLDs, but i think that's down to skill levels and not ship comparisons.

have you tried both ships ?

Yep. My medium fighter fleet consists of:
FAS, FGS, FDL and Python. I've gone with many builds on each.
I agree with your take on skill, but also think engineering has a strong part to play.
Or this can happen:
[video=youtube_share;Alr894u7rtE]https://youtu.be/Alr894u7rtE[/video]
 
Yep. My medium fighter fleet consists of:
FAS, FGS, FDL and Python. I've gone with many builds on each.
I agree with your take on skill, but also think engineering has a strong part to play.
Or this can happen:
https://youtu.be/Alr894u7rtE

i guess i need to step up my skills :)

been using my FAS designed for taking on convoys (3 anaconda, NPC) so has a cannon (class 2) to mess up gimmbles, which is pointless as the higher skilled PvPers are all about fixed :p and it had a multi cannon (Class 2)... no point in that when facing mainly shields.

So, time to make a second FAS for PvP, great vid.

Not that PvP is my thing, but i like to be the best i can at all aspect of the game :p
 
not sure about the FGS, could try it when missions are fixed and i can get CIF :p

but i worry about its speed... when facing a FLD with prismatics, if i don't get in a ram or two, them shield are not coming down.

The FAS lets me get a ram in and some thermal frag cannons (unless the opponent is really good), feels like the ramming is its most powerful weapon vs shields

FGS carries a fighter that with fixed beams is a giant nuisance; it has the ability to stack on tons of HRM and MRM and still fly. It has many places you can put MCs (have you seen the hardpoint count?) and a lot of ammunition downrange. With engineering you can get some decent (but not great) speed out of it.

FDS can boost well over 400 though with engineering and can stack on similar amounts of armour. Internals are better than FAS as well. Both FDS and FGS should not be underestimated when flown by a commander. Both have good hardpoint placement and can send a lot of ammunition downrange.
 
i guess i need to step up my skills :)

been using my FAS designed for taking on convoys (3 anaconda, NPC) so has a cannon (class 2) to mess up gimmbles, which is pointless as the higher skilled PvPers are all about fixed :p and it had a multi cannon (Class 2)... no point in that when facing mainly shields.

So, time to make a second FAS for PvP, great vid.

Not that PvP is my thing, but i like to be the best i can at all aspect of the game :p

Efficient plasmas are probably the best weapons for the FAS.
 

sollisb

Banned
Also that there is not a real hull tank alternative to the FDL at this level.

I can still hold my own in the FAS, but... maybe its ocd or something... Why haven't the federal navy got a ship that is on par with a civilian ship in that range?

Am I missing something, just need more 'git guds' or is it the case that we must all end up in FDLs?

FDL is a hull tank? Not so.. FDL is a shield tank.. and once it's shields go, it's a coke can.

FAS is a hull tank and battering ram.

Also, the fed ships are really only the FAS and the Vette. FDS is a brick and the FGS is a weapons suppression platform. The FAS is the only decent ship until you get to the vette.

The Python is very much under-rated... But engineered and flown with lots of FA ON/OFF is a very useful combat platform.

The FDL is going to fly rings around any of the standard PvP platforms, that's just the way it is. Either get with an FDL or go your own way. Qiestion is; Is PvP just about winning every engagement? Or the fun and thrill of it?

The problem is this; Players in the FDL are of the mind, as soon as their shields go they bail... So they are specifically playing a game of I win with my shields or I run away. The player in the FAS can be like, I don't need no shields bro.. I have enough armour to ram you back to momma.

Not everything is about the 'meta'..
 
FDL is a fantastic ship. All MCs is my fav in CZs.

FAS is a flying dog turd of a ship that looks like a coffin used by Feds. No brainer really of a choice. Unless you are Fed so are basically brainless 😁
 
FDL is a hull tank? Not so.. FDL is a shield tank.. and once it's shields go, it's a coke can.

FAS is a hull tank and battering ram.

Also, the fed ships are really only the FAS and the Vette. FDS is a brick and the FGS is a weapons suppression platform. The FAS is the only decent ship until you get to the vette.

The Python is very much under-rated... But engineered and flown with lots of FA ON/OFF is a very useful combat platform.

The FDL is going to fly rings around any of the standard PvP platforms, that's just the way it is. Either get with an FDL or go your own way. Qiestion is; Is PvP just about winning every engagement? Or the fun and thrill of it?

The problem is this; Players in the FDL are of the mind, as soon as their shields go they bail... So they are specifically playing a game of I win with my shields or I run away. The player in the FAS can be like, I don't need no shields bro.. I have enough armour to ram you back to momma.

Not everything is about the 'meta'..

That's not what they meant. They meant that there isn't a hull tank equivalent to the FDL. Meaning a ship that is to hull tanking what the FDL is to shield tanking.
 
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FDL is a hull tank? Not so.. FDL is a shield tank.. and once it's shields go, it's a coke can.

FAS is a hull tank and battering ram.

Also, the fed ships are really only the FAS and the Vette. FDS is a brick and the FGS is a weapons suppression platform. The FAS is the only decent ship until you get to the vette.

The Python is very much under-rated... But engineered and flown with lots of FA ON/OFF is a very useful combat platform.

The FDL is going to fly rings around any of the standard PvP platforms, that's just the way it is. Either get with an FDL or go your own way. Qiestion is; Is PvP just about winning every engagement? Or the fun and thrill of it?

The problem is this; Players in the FDL are of the mind, as soon as their shields go they bail... So they are specifically playing a game of I win with my shields or I run away. The player in the FAS can be like, I don't need no shields bro.. I have enough armour to ram you back to momma.

Not everything is about the 'meta'..

Some of the top pilots do wonders in both the FGS and FDS. My FGS is no pushover either. They're very unique ships but they aren't bad for combat. In these matchups it's down to skill and engineering, I think.
 
FDL is still the king at PvP and the easiest ship to fly. No risk of module damage as of insanely thick shields. Highest hull hardness of 70 (that's equal to the Cutter's..).
Best firepower, speed, agility, defenses, utilities and mass. There is no competitor. FAS is a downgraded FDL hulltank.
 
i actually think what is missing is a medium ship with 3 or 4 large hardpoints. probably 4. that would be better against ships with a high hullhardness (aka big game hunting), but would be on par in terms of firepower against smaller ships with an fdl.

i'm mainly flying my combat python for its 3 large hardpoints ... as an alternative to my fdl.
 
Python is under rated in combat, once engineered its a good all rounder.

FdL is best for shield, mine also does well over 500 speed but it runs hot.

FGS is, right now, my favourite. I don't use the the fighter option, preferring to max shields and hull. It will go above 1000mj on shields and with a size 6 shield cell bank it can last quite some time, hull integrity figures are very impressive with HRP/MRP. Stick MC's on it and does some serious damage.

All 3 ships are max engineered. High level primary / secondary but no "god" roles, not been that lucky.

Some profiles:

Python, multi tasks, does almost everything
FGS - CZ / RES also I occasionally mission run with some cargo capacity. Not tried it for BH yet.
FdL - CZ / RES / BH and courier missions
 
i actually think what is missing is a medium ship with 3 or 4 large hardpoints. probably 4. that would be better against ships with a high hullhardness (aka big game hunting), but would be on par in terms of firepower against smaller ships with an fdl.

i'm mainly flying my combat python for its 3 large hardpoints ... as an alternative to my fdl.

Interesting. I've moved down instead of up and am using my Vulture a bit.
 
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