I say, stop talking about EVE. ED:EVE? - this will not happen...
Avoiding Group Control...
- Thread starter JeffRyan
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Actually, this. I come to appreciate that goonfear is a self fulfilling prophecy. But then people think that undermining the "goon threat" is actually part of their metagame strategy, so don't mind me, do continue at your leisure
Two different points there:
Point 1: Drop all the 'goon drama'.
They've already established a foothold here, in the forums and are monitoring the situation. The Mittani already loves the game. It's not really a case of they're coming. It's 'they're here'. That much is clear from the SA forums. For the record the thread there is a lot like any thread here. Just gameplay, advice, talking hardware. And discussing the game in general. A few posts concerning 'grr goon' threads (as this one is considered). A few others discussing possible interactions here etc...
froody guy said:
So they're aware of us. It's up to them how they chose to interact with the game and the community. The community has to however be made aware of how they interact with other previous gaming communities. EVE is their most notorious success. And they're measured mainly by how they've behaved with that success. I also judge Goons a lot of the time on Alex Gianturco. And he takes a lot of pleasure in poking people who have in his view 'a hypocritcal sense of honour'. Which seems to be most people who aren't goons.
Point 2 is using goons when concerning views. To a certain extent I agree. We don't need to drag goons into every argument. But on another, particularly the purpose of this thread; How can we stop a large external community swamping the game and this community remains a valid concern.
Start here, work back, it's not rocket surgery.
http://archives.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3590283&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=49
http://archives.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3590283&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=49
In fairness, large group multiplayer tactics have been a bit of a blind spot during ED's development, and as others have said a good exemplar can help some people get up to speed more quickly. So instead of talking about Alice and Bob, you talk about Alice and an army of goons.
I do agree that focusing too much on a single group can be unhelpful though. For example, talking about "goons" too literally starts to resemble the network security fallacy of setting the Evil bit - providing a facility to indicate malicious intent, so your unwanted messages can be efficiently routed into the bin.
Goons refers to a specific Alliance in EVE. They are led by a player by the name of TheMittani. This is his EVE fan website/news site. http://themittani.com/ from a RL business perspective they've done quite nicely. He gets credentialed as media to major gaming conventions like E3 and such.
TheMittani is a charasmatic person that has generated lots of support for his causes through fan run EVE sites in the past. Now he just has his news site.
Here are some recent articles by him:
http://themittani.com/content/traffic-control-apex-force
http://themittani.com/content/mittens-mailbox-hero-space-priests-and-t20
http://themittani.com/content/traffic-control-three-quick-notes
http://themittani.com/content/traffic-control-nullsecs-high-bar
http://themittani.com/content/mittens-mailbox-holotanks-test-recon-and-e1
http://themittani.com/content/traffic-control-newbie-zone
http://themittani.com/content/traffic-control-update-dance
Here are his most recent EVE CEO updates (found posted publicly on his theMittani newsite, in no particular order):
http://themittani.com/news/gsf-ceo-update-delve-entitlement
http://themittani.com/news/gsf-ceo-update-omegafleet-rising-0
http://themittani.com/news/gsf-ceo-update-cold-war
http://themittani.com/news/gsf-ceo-update-tri-harder
Make no mistake about it... him and the people working for his newsite are probably reading all the threads made about them/him and preparing to write a piece about it.
Talking about him does nothing but make them want to come play with you.
I suspect that ship has sailed. They're aware of ED; they're aware that the average current player is more care than bear. Having read a couple of your links, that's enough.
This.
Back in the day Goons were open about their attery. They were proud about being "cool bad boys", joining games by the thousands to wreck them by weight of numbers and desteuctive metagaming.
These days they are all passive aggressive sniping, and being ever so hurt over unjustified Goonfear. Oh brother. I could at least have some respect for them when they were open about being a gang of a**sholes. The current crop of whiners are just sad. Problematic and desteuctive, but not even stylish villains.
They will likely bide their time and infiltrate with ED as I do not think they have the means to truly become active in Elite quite yet. I suspect If they do make a move it will be between 6 months to a year post release. Why? Build up forces, learn the game and if possible: infiltrate organizations which will pose a threat or could help them indirectly ( the Great Expedition may be in peril in this regard with a goon or two potentially hiding discoveries and relaying them to his/her cohorts ).
The only way to fight them is to be aware of them and to watch for odd things in-game . Gonna be really bloody fun setting up any cohesive player group like this but life really.
Oh and for the few goons I noticed in this thread so far I got a song for you guys:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMOGaugKpzs
Have fun thinking I am bluffing
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These trolls feed off each other...anything else is ambrosia to them. So those tactics actually make them more vicious.
Unless you can work out how to post using non-toxic crayons in friendly colours with a catchy theme tune, that's not going to work, sadly.
I can't figure out if I like you or not...
Didn't read the whole thread only made it to page 19 so n idea if it got mentioned.
But isn't flagging account by observed behaviour also on the table? So when they get noticed to play mostly anty social they get thrown into a grievers/special pvp group. If they start to grief all the time all they would grief would be other griefers?
If so it wouldn't be possible to directly impact the all player group base over longer time period. But affecting the outcome of special event's would still be on the table.
I don't see any harm in that. I would like to see any group to push the galaxy on one way.
The question is how will it affect your game play and what do you want out of the game. If you want to control said balance event's like war between alliance and imperium yea would be tough to fight against. But i don't see the harm in it. More challenge for you to go against and the possibility for other groups to emerge to try counter the direction.
All based upon that the grouping system will have enough controll to stop extended grieving and keep the game for the average all group player enjoyable.
While for me this includes the possibility of being interdicted and even ganked from time to time.
But ignore list, flagging and moderating account's should accomplish that task.
For me the game is about solo play and smallish coop. Including pirating. Also destabilizing market's should be possible and encouraged. Leading to interesting event's and changes in the galaxy.
Would be quite cool to see SOL fall to economic breakdown.
But isn't flagging account by observed behaviour also on the table? So when they get noticed to play mostly anty social they get thrown into a grievers/special pvp group. If they start to grief all the time all they would grief would be other griefers?
If so it wouldn't be possible to directly impact the all player group base over longer time period. But affecting the outcome of special event's would still be on the table.
I don't see any harm in that. I would like to see any group to push the galaxy on one way.
The question is how will it affect your game play and what do you want out of the game. If you want to control said balance event's like war between alliance and imperium yea would be tough to fight against. But i don't see the harm in it. More challenge for you to go against and the possibility for other groups to emerge to try counter the direction.
All based upon that the grouping system will have enough controll to stop extended grieving and keep the game for the average all group player enjoyable.
While for me this includes the possibility of being interdicted and even ganked from time to time.
But ignore list, flagging and moderating account's should accomplish that task.
For me the game is about solo play and smallish coop. Including pirating. Also destabilizing market's should be possible and encouraged. Leading to interesting event's and changes in the galaxy.
Would be quite cool to see SOL fall to economic breakdown.
ED player demographic is mainly made up of 40-something's with a lot more disposable cash than your average GS.
David braben has already made it clear that EVE issues will not be permitted in ED and he will have huge wide support from his cash rich backers who played the original elites and believe in preserving that vision.
I reckon GS and any other large online clans will find that any attempts to dominate will be seen as a direct threat to the relevant NPC faction and dealt with accordingly in many imaginative ways.
FD is already working hard to counter griefing on a normal level...they don't want peoes first experiences to be about getting blown up time and again safe space like EVE...this happened to me...police always arrived too late to do anything. Gamma phase will likely shed some light on clan tactics to dominate and full release will ensure the game configuration model will allow for adept admin functionality to counter all player dominance moves.
FD is driven by people and backers with a fierce belief in the same vision and that absolutely excludes GS style of play sen in EVE.
David braben has already made it clear that EVE issues will not be permitted in ED and he will have huge wide support from his cash rich backers who played the original elites and believe in preserving that vision.
I reckon GS and any other large online clans will find that any attempts to dominate will be seen as a direct threat to the relevant NPC faction and dealt with accordingly in many imaginative ways.
FD is already working hard to counter griefing on a normal level...they don't want peoes first experiences to be about getting blown up time and again safe space like EVE...this happened to me...police always arrived too late to do anything. Gamma phase will likely shed some light on clan tactics to dominate and full release will ensure the game configuration model will allow for adept admin functionality to counter all player dominance moves.
FD is driven by people and backers with a fierce belief in the same vision and that absolutely excludes GS style of play sen in EVE.
Never going to happen. First, no developer is going to appoint themselves a judge in what's griefing and what isn't.
Second, there is kinda no point in enabling players to shoot at each other, then punishing those who do, eh? It would be like giving a bunch of kids water guns, then yelling at them for getting wet.
Third, those players who like to PvP, which involves shooting other players, paid money for the game just as anyone else. Unless they put in "firing weapons at other players will result in your account being flagged as antisocial and put into a segregated instance forever" - which they won't - they will have no right to segregate anyone on the basis of how friendly with their guns they are ingame.
What those who can't stand the idea of another player shooting at them CAN do, is segregate *themselves* from those players. They can't however, force those players into being segregated from everyone else.
Which is why this thread is silly. In Eve, there is no getting away. Here, you just switch to private/solo or add them to your ignore list, and then you don't have to worry about anyone.
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I hope they intend to do that through smart coding, and not by violating consumer rights.
I'm just saying you can live in anxiety, frustration, and ill temper, and generally feed the monsters under the bed that are and always have been out there in the world...
But I'm really saying you don't have to.
How does the saying go? "just live and let **** off?"
Don't confuse ED's current backer demographic with the final demographic if the game is successful. And whilst a lot of issues are being dealt with on individual griefing, my concern is that massive group griefing is a different issue that hasn't really been discussed or to my knowledge acknowledged by Frontier Developments. I hope that it is.
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