NPC Wingmen (Sandro)

[CenturionPuch]

+1
As said before connect it with karma system so the serial killers have no access. I would like to use my own ships and pay less like that, but also hire one with it's own ship for a higher price.

 

[Aashenfox]

PvPers need to understand they are the significant minority and take a hit for us PvEers for once. As has previously been suggested, trial it in solo, see how it goes. I bet you'll find less than 50% take up flying with a wingman as a permanent fixture, for me for example, he would often be a liability, an extra thing to worry about (cos I assume he;d be flying our ships, I think it would be too unbalanced to have his own ship and non penalty for losing him) in most situations, meh, I'd use them rarely, for gaming moments when I wanted to feel like I had company along for the trip, for example, to make exploring more efficient, sending them round a system in supercruise to check stuff out and reduce exploring time as well as make it more interesting. Commanding a wingman with voice attack while in VR would be really something. To look out of my cockpit to the right and see my wingman flying alongside and tell him over the mic 'Yo Bob, dock at the installation', see him give me a salute return an acknowledgement 'whatever ya say baws', and peel off down toward a planet's surface... Awesome (if anyone's curious how the mechanics of that would work, FD could put in a wingman command 'dock at 'target'', which you could then bind in voiceattack to the voice command 'dock at the installation/facility/station', what you said before and after for effect (e.g. Yo, Bob...) is irrelevant. It's the 'dock at x' command that the pc is listening for.

 

[Mengy]

Some great points here.
Although personally NPC crew would be higher up my wish list.

I agree, NPC crewmembers are more important than NPC wingmen, but I don't think Frontier is even considering adding them.

+1

The fun gameplay possibilities that lone wolf players, traders, miners, and explorers can gain by hiring wingmen to run escort, patrol, and exploration related tasks surely outweigh the combat balance issues in a game where combat balance died forever when engineers were added.

Yep, would open up a lot of fun and possibilities for many players indeed!

+1

Also, it would make you feel more like you're interacting with the galaxy. As it is, there is very little interaction with NPCs which is unusual for any game. Imagine getting attached to your wingman pilot. The two of you have survived many adventures these past few months. Then one day....Noooooooo! It would really hurt to lose your wingman buddy.

Agreed!

Seriously I agree with so many of your suggestion....I wish you worked for FD!

Thanks, but they wouldn't want me, I'm a terrible coder. Well, I'm an okay coder, but certainly not Professional Game Dev caliber.

As a solo player - I couldn't care less about balance. I just want to have fun.

Yeah, this is what I was trying to convey, that the fun factor of NPC wings is more important than further balance issues due to them.

+1
As said before connect it with karma system so the serial killers have no access. I would like to use my own ships and pay less like that, but also hire one with it's own ship for a higher price.

Good point, if commanders with negative karma were unable to even hire NPC wings then that certainly would even up odds. PvP'ers are always saying they want more challenge, well there you are: take on a T9 pilot and his three armed guards by yourself, challenge aplenty!!! Or at least make it much more difficult for criminals to field NPC wings, say by making pilots for hire at anarchy/pirate bases much, much more costly. Another consequence to being a criminal in the galaxy.

 

[wstephenson]

Hmm... How about we set up a rule list to see what others think?

I'll start!

• 1 NPC Wingman per CMDR.
• Can be mixed with NPC crew.
• Can NOT be mixed with CMDR wings.
• Can NOT be mixed with Multicrew.
• Wingmen Have Ethical Codes and could have Major Faction/PowerPlay loyalties. Pirate Wingmen are rare, and always Wanted, and will attract NPC bounty hunters and security. Clean Wingmen are common, but won't attack clean ships, will KWS in anarchy, no bounties found, no kill.
• Wingman are lost on ship destruction, but will attempt to flee if heavily damaged.
• CMDR probably needs to pay *something* when wingman dies. Otherwise you'd kill them at the end of their shift to avoid paying them. Lol
• NPC Wingmen come with a ship, not one of yours. More money they earn, the better they, and their ship becomes.

Good start, here's a few more balance ideas:

• Wingmen do not earn bounties, contribute to your own combat rank for kills, bgs effects, or mission kill targets
• Wingmen's ships must be one or more size classes smaller than your own (with a minimum of small) and in any case of lower tonnage than the hirer's ship.
• Wingmen contracts allow them to set their rate dynamically depending on the activity and the location. Trading escort < Bounty Hunting < Conflict Zone, Corp State < Anarchy ("It'll cost you double to jump in there")
  • Rate is by the light second, per kill and as a percentage of profits ('negative trade voucher')
  • Surge pricing is in effect during Booms and CGs
• Wingmen may come in archetypes, like players, reflecting their preferred activity. Pay components reflect this, eg an Explorer companion will have a low LY charge but a high combat rate, you end up paying double kills' bounties to him/her
• Your hire rate goes up and the selection of wingmen willing goes down if you tend to get wingmen killed or Wanted
• High Reputation or superpower rank (in capitals/navy systems) gets you a wider range of candidates
• Wingmen can be retained like crew, or hired in the field (Wingman as a Service) at a higher rate for a specific contract type (Defend from Attack, Escort to Destination)
• Wingmen don't trade or carry cargo
• Wingmen's ships may limit jump range of the wing or lack fuel scoops. They will tell you on jump if they can't make it, and 'go the long way round' if possible
• Low grade wingmen may have undeclared bounties, leading to unscheduled pew-pew at Nav Beacons
• Disloyal wingmen may get bored and depart if there is a lack of action, or if the activity does not suit their archetype
• Likewise wingmen may have hidden wrinkles, such as a dislike of Theocracies, a rational fear of Thargoids, or particular Power spheres of influence

 

[LKx]

how about making it disgustingly expensive to keep?

If it's in term of reduced gain it could be fair enough, but being too much expensive would just make them an advantage for rich players and make Sandro's worries even worse.
They need to have a fair salary, and of course we'd have to pay their ships, but, if played well, they have to be remunerative, otherwise they could become a need which forces us to grind even more.
But i'm pretty sure they CAN be balanced out, afterall, as a lot say, the game is not much balanced now.

 

[CenturionPuch]

If it's in term of reduced gain it could be fair enough, but being too much expensive would just make them an advantage for rich players and make Sandro's worries even worse.
They need to have a fair salary, and of course we'd have to pay their ships, but, if played well, they have to be remunerative, otherwise they could become a need which forces us to grind even more.
But i'm pretty sure they CAN be balanced out, afterall, as a lot say, the game is not much balanced now.

I think it would actually add balance. The game as it is now is about as balanced as Syria.

 

[LKx]

I think it would actually add balance. The game as it is now is about as balanced as Syria.

Yeah, and i think they wouldn't even need too much complicated rules (as long as they keep the four heads in a wing limitation)

 

[TartanDragon]

Yeah, and i think they wouldn't even need too much complicated rules (as long as they keep the four heads in a wing limitation)

Ah yes War, Famine, Pestilence, and Death.

 

[Strangepork]

See, I'd love to be able to use my spare NPC pilots to move my spare ships about - would make them worth their pay for hanging around sitting on their backsides!

What would the blood sucking transport logistics NPCs do, they have an unbreakable cartel. They get 50x the payout that the honest player accessible professions do... And they say NPCs are stupid.

 

[DukeIronHand]

Hello Sandro!
Will we ever get to see our NPC crew in our spare seats?

For starters, I would be happy to just have them sitting there.
Being present.

Yes indeed.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Whilst on the subject, I would just love to see my SLF pilot, & even an NPC Gunner, on the helm of my ship. Even if the latter serves no extra game-play function outside of what turrets already do, it would still serve a strong aesthetic purpose, as well as being a nice credit sink . Human crew-mates could then just "Agent Smith" into the bodies of my NPC crewmates .

Of course, as multi-crew roles expand (hint, hint) we could hire even more NPC crew mates, who can likewise be replaced temporarily by human multi-crew.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Hmm... How about we set up a rule list to see what others think?

I'll start!

• 1 NPC Wingman per CMDR.
• Can be mixed with NPC crew.
• Can NOT be mixed with CMDR wings.
• Can NOT be mixed with Multicrew.
• Wingmen Have Ethical Codes and could have Major Faction/PowerPlay loyalties. Pirate Wingmen are rare, and always Wanted, and will attract NPC bounty hunters and security. Clean Wingmen are common, but won't attack clean ships, will KWS in anarchy, no bounties found, no kill.
• Wingman are lost on ship destruction, but will attempt to flee if heavily damaged.
• CMDR probably needs to pay *something* when wingman dies. Otherwise you'd kill them at the end of their shift to avoid paying them. Lol
• NPC Wingmen come with a ship, not one of yours. More money they earn, the better they, and their ship becomes.

Thoughts?

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

Great ideas as per usual.....+1 virtual rep .

 

[Marc_Hicks]

I agree, NPC crewmembers are more important than NPC wingmen, but I don't think Frontier is even considering adding them.



Yep, would open up a lot of fun and possibilities for many players indeed!



Agreed!



Thanks, but they wouldn't want me, I'm a terrible coder. Well, I'm an okay coder, but certainly not Professional Game Dev caliber.



Yeah, this is what I was trying to convey, that the fun factor of NPC wings is more important than further balance issues due to them.



Good point, if commanders with negative karma were unable to even hire NPC wings then that certainly would even up odds. PvP'ers are always saying they want more challenge, well there you are: take on a T9 pilot and his three armed guards by yourself, challenge aplenty!!! Or at least make it much more difficult for criminals to field NPC wings, say by making pilots for hire at anarchy/pirate bases much, much more costly. Another consequence to being a criminal in the galaxy.

If that were true, Mengy, then they wouldn't havs even given us SLF pilots. NPC actually offer up fewer balance issues, IMHO, than NPC wings.

 

[askavir]

I agree, NPC crewmembers are more important than NPC wingmen, but I don't think Frontier is even considering adding them.

NPC wingmates would actually add something to the game, while NPC crewmembers are just a placebo.

There already is the possibility of hiring crew to fly the SLF. Having a npc "manning the turrets" is exactly the same as having automated turrets.

 

[Mengy]

NPC wingmates would actually add something to the game, while NPC crewmembers are just a placebo.

There already is the possibility of hiring crew to fly the SLF. Having a npc "manning the turrets" is exactly the same as having automated turrets.

Well when I think of NPC crewmembers I'm thinking of a much more robust and interactive mechanic than simply "NPC's in multicrew". I'm thinking of NPC's that players can hire, train, and level up. NPC's who have skills and special abilities, adding a new layer of customizing a player's ship via something other than equipment, and not locked behind a gamble grind wall. I'm thinking of NPC's who add a social atmosphere to a ship by not only filling seats but saying stuff now and then too, a crew that is more than just "there" but interactive and even communicative to a degree. NPC's could make players really not want to lose a ship, because something much more costly than credits would be lost: your crewmates.

 

[Urbanski101]

Sorry but I don't get the 'balance' argument for not implementing NPC wingmates.

If balance really was the issue then engineers would never have been launched, a lvl 5 engineered ship is a clear mismatch for a non engineered version of the same ship.

How about multicrew and SLFs, isn't that virtually the same thing, an NPC that flies with you and fights by your side?

What about the imbalance of player wings - 4 v 1, hardly balanced.

Whilst we are at it what about different ship sizes and classes, a Fed Corvette vs a Sidewinder.

What about modules, a rated vs e rated.

I do understand not wanting everyone to fly in an NPC wing because it becomes the most secure way to fly but there are a number of ways to counter that, make the NPC crew tied to a mission, or hired for one journey to a single destination (if you deviate from the set course they disband), or set on a timer.....or reverse it, get hired by an NPC to protect his ship and fly as part of their crew.....so many possibilities....I don't think the balance argument is entirely valid considering the number of imbalances currently in game.

For non combat related stuff, trading, exploration, mining there are loads of possibilities of how we could work with NPCs.

 

[Vasious]

NPC wingmates would actually add something to the game, while NPC crewmembers are just a placebo.

There already is the possibility of hiring crew to fly the SLF. Having a npc "manning the turrets" is exactly the same as having automated turrets.

Yes, I guess the issue with NPC crew is what would they do

Filling Empty seats would be good enough for some, give them a name fact background and context quips to make, and your have your co pilot.

Or do they need to boost the ship some how, and if so in what way, and that way should be an way not to obsolete Player Crew.

Would NPC Crew slots become just another type of internal slot to fit to min max?
How many crew would each ship have and need? Presumable the Chairs on the Bridge need not be the limit

NPC Wingmates adds a different Kettle of fish
Are they Pilots flying our spare ships
Freelancers employed for a set contract period
Are they Hired Per mission or CG (Ie hire a Fighter to escort your trader during a trade or mining CG) as back up (could they be assigned by mission givers)
Are they Permanent employees, and if so can they quite or resign based on our actions (really would apply to all contact types)

Do they appear in SC with us, or are they the drop in behind us type NPC

Can we have New Beacons beyond Wing Beacon, to Call in NPC Pilots of various types to help out, if we have an ongoing Service contact

 

[Andrej]

Hello Commander Lobstris!

Fundamentally, if we simply allowed NPC wingmen without restraint, it might very well make the situation worse *and* make having wingmen more mandatory, which is not something we really want.

I'm not saying we've dropped the idea, just that it has a lot of ramifications that we don't want to take lightly.

Game is already encouraging players to wing up, which is great, why don`t allow wing with NPC? Just don`t allow players to get other benefits except safety. Player share his profits with NPC wingman, but not get any profits from NPC wingman bounty claims, won`t it be less danger, less profits which is in the spirit of the game?

 

[Insane4un]

Hello Commander Lobstris!

Fundamentally, if we simply allowed NPC wingmen without restraint, it might very well make the situation worse *and* make having wingmen more mandatory, which is not something we really want.

I'm not saying we've dropped the idea, just that it has a lot of ramifications that we don't want to take lightly.

And yet you find it is ok that NPC still should get 10-30% of our credits while not even be in our actual ship. He just seat in coriolis while i am doing quests and he got my money for doing NOTHING. It is ok for you, right? Work as intended? I can't even have more than one NPC at this point. They are eating my credits. That is all what they can and the only thing they can do WELL. Will you ever considered this STOP? As a QoL improvement JUST STOP IT. If NPC not on the ship, he should not get anything. (actually it should'v been in game from start of 2.2, but whatever)

Seriously? Please, make it stop.

Thank you.

 

[Luniticisi]

I so wish this was a single player game. the possibilities are endless!