Two extremes of open PvP

[MJC]

Hello Cmdrs,

Following a 3 month break I have returned to my torpedo DBS "Cool Runnings".

I have been involved in active PvP for 3 years now (since the original beta). I always play in open and promote small ships.

What got me thinking was a recent "incident" at ancient ruin site. Yes you guessed it - I went in open in my ASP, clicked dismiss ship a second too late (while a hollow triangle was approaching) and ended up with SRV only.

So as a seasoned PvP-er I looked at ways to encourage Cmdr's to take part in open PvP and to promote good sportsmanship. Especially after the recent module exploits which have put a dark cloud over the "mainstream PvP community" (I am happy to report all my modules are still here including reverberating torpedoes which I will put to good use in this video

In the recent anti-crime CG I decided to role play a wanted criminal. Flying around Asellus Primus in small ship reminded me of the good old days in Beta. The events in this video took place on the same evening within 10min of each other. They show the best and worst of open PvP. You will see 2 scenarios and 2 different outcomes. I hope this discussion will focus on ways we can all encourage scenario 2. I also hope that FD will look into eliminating the outcome of scenario 1.

Now that module exploits have been banned, and crime and punishment is on the radar I really hope that this is a golden opportunity for FD to deal with other "ungraceful" exploits.

Enjoy the movie.

[video=youtube_share;w732R844H6g]https://youtu.be/w732R844H6g[/video]

 

[Hellfire85]

Small ships are very well viable in PvP.
I fly only my Vulture. I don't claim to be good, but the fact that I don't get oneshot by an engineered cutter is proof enough, and I played only a few months.

The problem is very few people are willing to invest time into learning what's needed to outmatch a big ship in a small one, so they decide that bigger is better and grind for the big 3.

Acquiring skill is harder than grinding millions of credits or collecting mats.

 

[Jason Lightning]

That loadout seems far too limited, a shield tank that knows what a Torpedo is will never be hit, a hull tank will just toggle SR to keep you from locking on, and anyone with Target Lock Breaker in a small ship will ensure you never make the lock happen.

There are good small ship PvP loadouts, but this one only works if the opponent is untrained against missiles and torps.

 

[Tarman]

Small ships are very well viable in PvP.
I fly only my Vulture. I don't claim to be good, but the fact that I don't get oneshot by an engineered cutter is proof enough, and I played only a few months.

The problem is very few people are willing to invest time into learning what's needed to outmatch a big ship in a small one, so they decide that bigger is better and grind for the big 3.

Acquiring skill is harder than grinding millions of credits or collecting mats.

Vulture is my inroad into pure space fitan, love that ship. It feels exactly like the kind of heavy-hitting yet fairly maneuverable vehicle I like in combat games. It's like taking an A-10 with F-16 flight characteristics into battle.

 

[MJC]

That loadout seems far too limited, a shield tank that knows what a Torpedo is will never be hit, a hull tank will just toggle SR to keep you from locking on, and anyone with Target Lock Breaker in a small ship will ensure you never make the lock happen.

It is a specialised loadout. There is skill required on both sides. Target lock breaker has to hit me first. If you wish you can try hitting a silent DBS engaging lateral thrusters with fixed weapons, but its no fun I can tell you.
Also my loadout remains a mystery to my opponent unless: A) they scan me in supercruise or B) I allow them to see it. For hull tanks I use different loadout with enforcer cannons, although I hate 20min fights, especially with dropships.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLBGr-GvtM8&t=44s
Lastly the speed of the shield tank is important factor. Hence Anacondas and Corvettes are more prone to torpedo attacks as opposed to FDL, Cutters or other faster ships... I chose my engagements accordingly, although I sometimes catch out more experienced Cmdrs who dont focus enough.

I prefer the "unexpected" loadouts, which put a smile on my face.

The aim of my post was not so much loadouts, but how players react and behave with each other and how to encourage open PvP and interaction.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

nice vid.
but you are promoting those who cry on the forums about how strong torpedos are (while up to now, they always have been bombed with mines )

 

[MJC]

Small ships are very well viable in PvP.

The problem is very few people are willing to invest time into learning what's needed to outmatch a big ship in a small one, so they decide that bigger is better and grind for the big 3.

Acquiring skill is harder than grinding millions of credits or collecting mats.

+1 Cmdr. This is exactly what I am trying to promote. I was frustrated by meta play and complaints about "unbeatable" 1000000000 GJ shields on big 3 and I came up with a simple solution which works well enough. It also makes people think.

 

[MissMeYet]

Small ships really are the most fun. This is from today at the Eravate CG. WANTED 13th Legion Python against my Viper Mk3. My ship isn't even max Engineered, with only Grade 3 Thrusters (I don't really want to make the trip to Maia in a Viper). Cheers!

[video=youtube_share;04JEOXY9wrk]https://youtu.be/04JEOXY9wrk[/video]

 

[Jason Lightning]

Small ships really are the most fun. This is from today at the Eravate CG. WANTED 13th Legion Python against my Viper Mk3. My ship isn't even max Engineered, with only Grade 3 Thrusters (I don't really want to make the trip to Maia in a Viper). Cheers!

https://youtu.be/04JEOXY9wrk

Make the trip in a high jump range DBS or Courier, upgrade a dirty drive that would be used on your Viper, then bring it back to the Viper and module switch. I often use high jump ships to get engineering done, and transfer the parts to the combat ships.

 

[MJC]

Small ships really are the most fun. This is from today at the Eravate CG. WANTED 13th Legion Python against my Viper Mk3. My ship isn't even max Engineered, with only Grade 3 Thrusters (I don't really want to make the trip to Maia in a Viper). Cheers!

Yes fun is the key word. I think small ships have many things going for them:

1) Cheap. Low rebuy. This decreases overall anxiety and makes fighting to the end more likely. It also reduces the risk of combat logging as most Cmdr's dont mind loosing small ships.
2) Cheap to transfer between stations. This means you can go to engineer or CG in your ASP, then clink on ship transfer for a few hundred thousan credits and have a cup of coffee while waiting (thanks for the immersion chaps On an FDL it would cost you 10x more
3) Maneuverability and speed. They are a joy to fly. Especially Vultures and Eagles.
4) The feeling of beeing the underdog. The joy of winning fights against superior opposition. Yesterday I fought a Cmdr from a well known PvP group in his FDL. I won the fight with 8% hull left. Now thats a special feeling.

Finally some advice about Maia. Leave the modules you want to engineer in storage. Jump to Maia in an ASP. Transfer modules only ! It is a lot cheaper than transfering even DBS or Viper because of the huge distance.

 

[Jason Lightning]

Yes fun is the key word. I think small ships have many things going for them:

1) Cheap. Low rebuy. This decreases overall anxiety and makes fighting to the end more likely. It also reduces the risk of combat logging as most Cmdr's dont mind loosing small ships.
2) Cheap to transfer between stations. This means you can go to engineer or CG in your ASP, then clink on ship transfer for a few hundred thousan credits and have a cup of coffee while waiting (thanks for the immersion chaps On an FDL it would cost you 10x more
3) Maneuverability and speed. They are a joy to fly. Especially Vultures and Eagles.
4) The feeling of beeing the underdog. The joy of winning fights against superior opposition. Yesterday I fought a Cmdr from a well known PvP group in his FDL. I won the fight with 8% hull left. Now thats a special feeling.

Finally some advice about Maia. Leave the modules you want to engineer in storage. Jump to Maia in an ASP. Transfer modules only ! It is a lot cheaper than transfering even DBS or Viper because of the huge distance. Use you ASP to jump to CG's in the future and transfer your small ship. Its every PvP'ers dream

You can't use an Asp to engineer a Viper's 3A enhanced drives though, it won't support the ship without bare minimum weight, which would cripple the safety of an Asp in being interdicted. A DBS or better yet a Courier does a better job, they can have the 3A thruster onboard without going over the mass limit or skirting the upper edge and becoming sluggish.

Also a taxi Asp is not recommended for traveling to CGs, it needs too much investment in engineering to become a safe taxi. The Courier is the primary taxi for PvPers, one 3A enhanced drive on a light build with FSD range gets excellent jump range and can outrun any hostile, near impossible to get jumped that way. If a Courier is not an option for some reason (such as rank for a new PvPer) a modified enhanced drive Hauler can be a somewhat ok option too. A good taxi is cheap yet able to escape any interdiction.

 

[Jon flint]

Was that you that pulled me yesterday in Eravate? I was in a big lumbering Corvette called "The Extortionate Rebuy".

Your build was so cool running I could only target you for about 5 seconds during the entire "fight". Wouldn't have made for a very good video, I think I only fired about 20 rounds of MC ammo.. I felt like a big lumbering elephant being pecked to death by a small bird.. in a dark room!

I managed to dodge your torps, but if they'd hit I may have been in trouble

 

[MJC]

Was that you that pulled me yesterday in Eravate? I was in a big lumbering Corvette called "The Extortionate Rebuy".

Your build was so cool running I could only target you for about 5 seconds during the entire "fight". Wouldn't have made for a very good video, I think I only fired about 20 rounds of MC ammo.. I felt like a big lumbering elephant being pecked to death by a small bird.. in a dark room!

I managed to dodge your torps, but if they'd hit I may have been in trouble

That was me and my "Cool Runnings" indeed.

You did very well to evade the torps. It was a very enjoyable experience and great sportsmanship. This is why I started this thread - to focus on positive interaction and making friends (and frenemies in game. I was fortunate to meet a lot of good PvP'ers and Cmdr's in game and you are certainly one of them. Please feel free to send me a friend request in game. gg o7

 

[AceFlares]

GG OP. A Cobra III (I've not killed much but yet to lose it...) pilot salutes you! o7 +1

 

[MJC]

I made another "frienemy" in game. Good fight, good chat and friend request after. My "cool runnings" continues to surprise...

[video=youtube_share;GyfAlUpM4KA]https://youtu.be/GyfAlUpM4KA[/video]

 

[silvrav]

@MJC nice 1v1 with you last night! Keep up the good work!

 

[MJC]

@MJC nice 1v1 with you last night! Keep up the good work!

Hey Cmdr Silvrav nice to hear from you. I am always pleased to see new Cmdr's take interest in PvP and I am glad you enjoyed the experience. As requested I attach the video of our fight for you to analyse. Please PM me if you have any questions.

I had a "hit & run" loadout for FDL or shield tanks, which is designed to prevent them from running away. For a staged fight involving your hybrid Anaconda I would have preffered my torpedo + enforcer cannon loadout. This would have provided more sustained dps over time and I could synthesyse ammo if needed. Also I could also have dealt with that pesky SLF ignoring my silent running...

[video=youtube_share;amZut6XFYk4]https://youtu.be/amZut6XFYk4[/video]

P.S. Next time try to outrun those torpedoes. And sorry sound is out of sync. Shadowplay and editing software

 

[shadragon]

The problem is very few people are willing to invest time into learning what's needed to outmatch a big ship in a small one, so they decide that bigger is better and grind for the big 3.

Acquiring skill is harder than grinding millions of credits or collecting mats.

Yup, so obvious a child can see it, but they don't.

The big ship must be better so I'm going to grind my butt off and have it ruin the very game I'm trying to play.

 

[Soothsayer]

The problem is very few people are willing to invest time into learning what's needed to outmatch a big ship in a small one, so they decide that bigger is better and grind for the big 3.

I'm not sure where you're coming from. From what I understand of Elite's PvP scene thus far, the "big 3" are outmatched and underpowered against the ongoing FdL / FAS meta. Folks tell me to stay away from PvP in a large ship, because smaller ships will "run circles around me." I'm told that I'll just get decimated by smaller ships if I go and PvP in my Corvette.

Since I don't have much actual experience, I can't say one way or another which side is right.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

Hey Cmdr Silvrav nice to hear from you. I am always pleased to see new Cmdr's take interest in PvP and I am glad you enjoyed the experience. As requested I attach the video of our fight for you to analyse. Please PM me if you have any questions.

I had a "hit & run" loadout for FDL or shield tanks, which is designed to prevent them from running away. For a staged fight involving your hybrid Anaconda I would have preffered my torpedo + enforcer cannon loadout. This would have provided more sustained dps over time and I could synthesyse ammo if needed. Also I could also have dealt with that pesky SLF ignoring my silent running...

https://youtu.be/amZut6XFYk4

P.S. Next time try to outrun those torpedoes. And sorry sound is out of sync. Shadowplay and editing software

hmm, can't you synthesise missile ammo too?
and as experienced missile user - can you tell if wide angle sensors affect missile lock?