Confession of a shameless Mode Switcher...

[Mohrgan]

Darn right. Very much "too long term for comfort"!!!
Thats what the thread is ultimately all about.
100's of hours (which equals many months on my schedule) grinding rank missions for a g-d video game spaceship?
Yea. I do not desire to spend my precious limited life span doing that.
Fly well.

Pitiful. As I see it, one should only get out, what one puts in.

 

[DukeIronHand]

Pitiful. As I see it, one should only get out, what one puts in.

In a video game. A spaceship video game. One that I have bought, paid for, and spent 1000+ hours and years playing?
With a ship I would like to try before I die of old age?
Pitiful alright.

 

[Stealthie]

Not sure if serious...

So you're saying that the complaints about the grind and the time it takes to gain ranks are overblown, but it took you 30 hours to grind out a Cutter?

To me that really sounds like a really long time to spend grinding.

Depends how you look at it, I guess.

30 hours IS a long time to spend grinding but it's also a MASSIVE contraction of something that seems intended to take a whole year of normal gameplay - for those who're desperate to achieve something.

If you want to enjoy the game, spend a year progressing naturally.
If you absolutely must have a big, expensive, pretend spaceship right now, that's possible too.
Take your pick.

 

[Marklar_]

I just realized people seem to think single player games can't have exploits.

Of course they can, it's just that no one really has a reason to care.

 

[Mohrgan]

In a video game. A spaceship video game. One that I have bought, paid for, and spent 1000+ hours and years playing?
With I ship I would like to try before I die of old age?
Pitiful alright.

"Daddy, I want an ice cream." "Sorry, dear. You have to wait until after dinner." "But, I'll die of old age, without an ice cream, if I have to wait that long."

Does this sound familiar to anyone, besides me?

 

[Aashenfox]

Of course they can, it's just that no one really has a reason to care.

I don't think many care that people are doing it, it's how they justify it that kicked things off. For me personally, I don't like the insinuation that it's working as intended, because if fdev believes that the majority believe that, then they may delay fixing the debacle that is the current mission board system, which is something I hope they get around to. Do I think it's a priority fix? Not at all! In fact it could be flat bottom of my list but i find it unacceptably lazy to say that this ability to game the missions board is a valid fix to an area of the game that needs a great deal of attention some day.

P.S. ED is an MMO...

 

[Jockey79]

Jockey,

If you don't address my arguments but prefer to be condescending (explain the word advantage) we're done.

I know very well what the word means and I explained how it applies.

I did address your arguments in that post, you're choosing to ignore me - but that's up to you.

@Jockey,

Jockey, if you wanted to save time in the morning before work I could suggest to you that it may be advantageous to you to prepare your packed lunch the night before. That doesn't advantage anyone but you but it is still advantageous to you.

On the advantage, well you could have done the engineer exploit when it was exposed, you could have helped your friend to the required rank to exploit founders, simply because something is time/effort sensitive does not mean it isn't available to everyone.

advantageous =/= advantage

2 different words with 2 different meanings.

advantageous = creating favourable circumstances that increase the chances of success
advantage = a condition or circumstance that puts one in a favourable or superior position

But carry on redefining words to suit your argument, clearly winning beats accuracy in your book.

Funny, I think you're the one ignoring the definition of an exploit, and I have quite some experience, I'm 40 years old, playing video games since they were invented, ranked top 5000 worldwide at 5 well known titles at various times in my life, my biggest claims to fame are WoW and Unreal Tournament, both of which have had their fair share of issues with exploits. For me, this isn't even a question, and it's you whose really trying hard to justify that this isn't an 'exploit' by the purest definition.

What's more, morals have everything to do with it, players who see it as an exploit and avoid it as such, are at a disadvantage compared to players like you who clearly think that anything the game allows due to the way it's coded is 'fair game'. I'm here to tell you we don't all think like that, therefore you DO have an advantage. Now, if you had that advantage because I was stupid, rather than overly moral, then I'd have nothing to say, but the fact is, you have an advantage over someone because they have a stricter code which they are not willing to forego just to get an advantage. If I did the exploit a lot, I would never be satisfied with the rank, it would always whisper in my ear 'you took advantage of unintended gameplay until it was patched, you didn't earn this fair and square'.

Fortunately, in terms of reputation, it doesn't make a big difference, so I don't feel at a disadvantage (credits is a different matter, the exploit makes a HUGE difference), but the fact is, you do have an advantage because you can so easily justify cheating as a means to an end, that's not a slur on you, everyone should play games how they want, but you DO have an advantage over other players until it's patched. To pretend that it's their problem they aren't using an exploit is like trying to justify murder by saying 'everyone can do it if they want?' (another bad analogy but my meaning is clear).

I'm also 40 and have played games for a long time - it does not make us experts on the English language.
As we are bringing up real world jusifactions, my background is the Constabulary. I'm a retired Constable. And I know all too well that using the wrong word to describe something can lead to wrong conclusions or in worse cases, have a case thrown out of court from my former job - all because of a wrongly used word. Hence why I'm so picky over how things are worded, clear communication is key to everyone being on the same page.

From the above Wiki from Theodrid;

"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers."

There is no advantage when everyone can do it and the Devs don't care about it.

....
You may be right, but the understanding of the definition that you are pushing is still a fallacy.

How so? It's in black and white.

I just realized people seem to think single player games can't have exploits.

Depends if the game Devs approve of it and it becomes a "feature" or if they fix it and patch it out.
It all relies on the Devs attitude to the situation.

 

[Tiny_Rick]

I did address your arguments in that post, you're choosing to ignore me - but that's up to you.



advantageous =/= advantage

2 different words with 2 different meanings.

advantageous = creating favourable circumstances that increase the chances of success
advantage = a condition or circumstance that puts one in a favourable or superior position

But carry on redefining words to suit your argument, clearly winning beats accuracy in your book.



I'm also 40 and have played games for a long time - it does not make us experts on the English language.
As we are bringing up real world jusifactions, my background is the Constabulary. I'm a retired Constable. And I know all too well that using the wrong word to describe something can lead to wrong conclusions or in worse cases, have a case thrown out of court from my former job - all because of a wrongly used word. Hence why I'm so picky over how things are worded, clear communication is key to everyone being on the same page.

From the above Wiki from Theodrid;

"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers."

There is no advantage when everyone can do it and the Devs don't care about it.



How so? It's in black and white.



Depends if the game Devs approve of it and it becomes a "feature" or if they fix it and patch it out.
It all relies on the Devs attitude to the situation.

When you take time and effort to respond to people who really don't care about your opinions. Quite entertaining!

 

[Theodrid]

@ Jockey,

It is you that is redefining words and meanings Jockey, you are guilty of all you accuse others of.

For you apparently even though exploits are unintended uses of game mechanics the unintended use of the exit to menu to stack missions is somehow 'different' - it isn't. You have to concede it is an unintended use because it clearly is and if it clearly is it is also a form of exploit.

Advantageous - To create circumstances to GAIN AN ADVANTAGE, affording advantage, etc etc etc, I can't believe you are trying to argue that point. What the hell is 'creating favourable circumstances' if it isn't creating an advantage?

Advantageous is the adjective of the noun or verb advantage, look at the bloody words,....Christ on a bike.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If switching modes doesn't gain an advantage over not switching modes, why switch modes?

To gain an advantage!

 

[Aashenfox]

I did address your arguments in that post, you're choosing to ignore me - but that's up to you.



advantageous =/= advantage

2 different words with 2 different meanings.

advantageous = creating favourable circumstances that increase the chances of success
advantage = a condition or circumstance that puts one in a favourable or superior position

But carry on redefining words to suit your argument, clearly winning beats accuracy in your book.



I'm also 40 and have played games for a long time - it does not make us experts on the English language.
As we are bringing up real world jusifactions, my background is the Constabulary. I'm a retired Constable. And I know all too well that using the wrong word to describe something can lead to wrong conclusions or in worse cases, have a case thrown out of court from my former job - all because of a wrongly used word. Hence why I'm so picky over how things are worded, clear communication is key to everyone being on the same page.

From the above Wiki from Theodrid;

"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers."

There is no advantage when everyone can do it and the Devs don't care about it.



How so? It's in black and white.



Depends if the game Devs approve of it and it becomes a "feature" or if they fix it and patch it out.
It all relies on the Devs attitude to the situation.

Respect. You did a hard job under very hard circumstances, if you were one of the 'nice' ones, then I am humbled by you. The way a man treats another over whom he has power defines him.

However, it also surprises me with that background that you can so easily justify something that is patently bypassing the 'law' of reasonableness. Or to put it another way, I don't fart while standing in a crowded area, despite there being no law against it. By your definition of this exploit, I assume you would be a farter (no offence intended, it's just for comedic license, though I do find it a rather apt analogy ) under the premise; "there's no law against it, so if it suits me to do it, then it is what I am supposed to do'". You'll tell me what you're doing isn't bothering anyone like farting in a public place would, but I'd say it's a very balanced analogy, cos it would bother people a little bit under certain circumstances, especially if you pvp, when you kill someone in your corvette because you exploited the rep and credits, despite having no more hours in the game than your victim because he chose not to cheat and is flying a DBX. It's not a big thing, but it's something, like a little fart. And both crimes are anonymous too!

 

[Stealthie]

If switching modes doesn't gain an advantage over not switching modes, why switch modes?

To gain an advantage!

Oh, come on...

It's not that it doesn't give you an advantage.
It's just that gaining an advantage doesn't actually grant you any kind of advantage.

Or something. [where is it]

 

[Jockey79]

When you take time and effort to respond to people who really don't care about your opinions. Quite entertaining!

Yup. Staves off boredom and is funny to see some the response.

@ Jockey,

It is you that is redefining words and meanings Jockey, you are guilty of all you accuse others of.

For you apparently even though exploits are unintended uses of game mechanics the unintended use of the exit to menu to stack missions is somehow 'different' - it isn't. You have to concede it is an unintended use because it clearly is and if it clearly is it is also a form of exploit.

Advantageous - To create circumstances to GAIN AN ADVANTAGE, affording advantage, etc etc etc, I can't believe you are trying to argue that point. What the hell is 'creating favourable circumstances' if it isn't creating an advantage?

You've proven my point for me when you linked the definition whereby there needs to be an advantage over others and there is no such advantage here.
And now you're just trolling by swapping out definitions to suit your stance. So I'll leave this here.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Depends if the game Devs approve of it and it becomes a "feature" or if they fix it and patch it out.
It all relies on the Devs attitude to the situation.

Your argument: No other players, no advantage, so single player games can't have exploits.

 

[Jockey79]

If switching modes doesn't gain an advantage over not switching modes, why switch modes?

To gain an advantage!

And when Manjvash used that line in the SOG thread as a reason to remove mode switching, you were all over him - like I was.

Also, advantage and advantageous are 2 different things - it may be advantageous to mode switch for more missions, but it does not give you an advantage over others doing it.

 

[Saxon Kili]

You have to concede it is an unintended use because it clearly is and if it clearly is it is also a form of exploit.
?

Circular logic: "It IS because it clearly IS."

 

[Jockey79]

Your argument: No other players, no advantage, so single player games can't have exploits.

Actually I also said it's down to the Devs to decide if you were reading my posts properly.
But as you keep ignoring parts of my posts, this didn't surprise me.

 

[Theodrid]

Yup. Staves off boredom and is funny to see some the response.



You've proven my point for me when you linked the definition whereby there needs to be an advantage over others and there is no such advantage here.
And now you're just trolling by swapping out definitions to suit your stance. So I'll leave this here.

http://i.imgur.com/BGgh60p.jpg

Are you denying that you can create advantageous circumstances for yourself, are you denying that doing so is creating an advantage for yourself? - this is pathetic Jockey. - see my edit in my previous post.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

And when Manjvash used that line in the SOG thread as a reason to remove mode switching, you were all over him - like I was.

Also, advantage and advantageous are 2 different things - it may be advantageous to mode switch for more missions, but it does not give you an advantage over others doing it.

To gain an advantage by refreshing the mission board oh dishonest one

Actually I also said it's down to the Devs to decide if you were reading my posts properly.
But as you keep ignoring parts of my posts, this didn't surprise me.

I am reading your posts. Your claim isn't that an exploit means an advantage over other players, instead of an advantage in the created situation?

So sorry, I must have missunderstood

 

[Theodrid]

Circular logic: "It IS because it clearly IS."

Not in the slightest but you cannot believe the engineering exploit was one and mode switching isn't, they are both unintended for the results that follow..