Well, when talking about it as a career / income method I am primarily talking about PvE Piracy.
PvP and the can of worms that go with that discussion is already covered in hundreds of other threads.
Why is Piracy and Smuggling the "worst" careers for profit?
- Thread starter Red Fox Four
- Start date
Well, when talking about it as a career / income method I am primarily talking about PvE Piracy.
PvP and the can of worms that go with that discussion is already covered in hundreds of other threads.
Elite doesn't really have the '17th Century Treasure Ship' model though, it's more like lorries going up and down the M6. Sure, one or two might have precious gems but the bulk of them will be carrying stuff like nappies and cheap plastic garden furniture.
Edit: I'm not saying that's good thing.
The essence of what I am after is simply...
Risk vs Reward
Smuggling is riskier than legit trading - therefore it should carry higher rewards.
There needs to be a functionality in place in the game that makes smuggling worth it. And I'm not talking about mission-board smuggling since that is already controlled via the mission rewards. If Slaves are illegal in system A but legal in system B then there should always be a profit involved when buying from B and selling at A. Otherwise the entire concept of smuggling is defunct.
When it comes to piracy the cargo on ships in high security systems should be more valuable than what is carried in lower security and there should be more ships around carrying valuables. This way, again... there is a higher risk due to the security level, but more reward due to more ships with valuables flying around.
More Risk = better rewards.
Not more risk = worse rewards.
It's really that simple... I can't fathom how FDEV doesn't see this?
More Risk = better rewards.
Not more risk = worse rewards.
I don't think I've ever agreed with something on such a fundamental level. Choice and consequence, or risk and reward, should be the very fundament of a game like this.
Unfortunately my friend FD do see this, but have to walk a tightrope - with me on one side of the drop complaining about the terrifying lack of engagement in earning high profits, and and on the other side half the community whining about their playing rights being infringed if you stop them earning millions an hour for trucking between a couple of stations.
I'm interested in risk/reward. Risk/reward is the only truly effective fundament for any game that inherently gives you the ability to make choices and run with it. Some players...will just explode the moment they hear the word risk.
The problem is one of incentives. Sane people in RL only commit crime out of:
1) DESPERATION: they have no other option
2) GREED: the money incentive is so much better than legal alternatives
3) DOUCHERY: they're bored and rich and think they can get away with it with no real personal risk
In Elite, we only have option #3. There should at least be option #2, and maybe even option #1 for people that have lost everything and get a special crime mission to get their (currently unaffordable) ship insurance paid off by local mob bosses if they accept some dangerous and illegal mission that could cost them even more if they fail.
1) DESPERATION: they have no other option
2) GREED: the money incentive is so much better than legal alternatives
3) DOUCHERY: they're bored and rich and think they can get away with it with no real personal risk
In Elite, we only have option #3. There should at least be option #2, and maybe even option #1 for people that have lost everything and get a special crime mission to get their (currently unaffordable) ship insurance paid off by local mob bosses if they accept some dangerous and illegal mission that could cost them even more if they fail.
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Yep, agreed!
Once you've got the diamond heist down to a fine art, it becomes very rewarding in terms of satisfaction as well as credits
Yep, agreed!
Once you've got the diamond heist down to a fine art, it becomes very rewarding in terms of satisfaction as well as credits
How long does it take to find these low temp diamonds, and how do you know where to look?
You don't do piracy for the money. You do it for the YAAAAAAAAR!-life
Actually pirating NPCs loaded up with LTDs are quite profitable. Some of them carry more than a hundred tons.
Greed should be the #1 reason why someone would do piracy and/or smuggling in this game.
Why else would you choose to smuggle rather than haul biowaste as far as the game goes?
More risk with smuggling, but better payout.
Less risk with carrying poop, but lower payout.
How can it be hard to implement this concept into the game?
And if it gets too easy to smuggle so "everyone" starts smuggling instead of legit trading the solution is simple....
... increase the frequency of scanning at stations to force players to fly in silent running and/or heat sinks.
... increase the frequency of interdictions and routine scan/controls during supercruise.
... increase the fine/bounty when caught.
... enable NPC security and stations to attack with intent to destroy your ship if you are caught with more than X tonnes of cargo or Y value in illegal goods.
Profit should still always be better when smuggling compared to legit trading.
And it should be balanced through balancing the risk involved.
High population systems, preferably agri, whose controlling faction is enjoying a Boom state. If other factions are also in Boom, all the better!
In such a system, you can usually find a suitable mark in around 5 mins. You'll be looking for mining ships, those fitted with mining lasers and a refinery.
The best way of conducting the heist itself is down to personal preference, trial and error.
The most time consuming part of piracy, and the bit that really needs work imho, is collecting the booty. A big improvement would be to increase the speed at which you can travel without the limpet smacking into your ship and wrecking the canister it carries.
Yeah it's crazy how long it takes to empty a T9 and reload its cargo onto your ship. Would be nice if could have an electromagnetic wagon attachment that we could use to sweep up the cargo and then just "attach" the wad of cargo to the outside of the ship for a quick getaway. Even better if that counted as external cargo racks lol. And maybe as a downside, if it gets damaged (rammed or shot) then the electromagnet shuts off and the cargo goes sprawling again.
You forget option #4:
4) EXCITMENT: the other methods of making money are so stupidly boring and easy that the game loses it's fun. Bounty hunting NPCs or CZs is easy against a weak AI, trading is jumping back and forth, exploring is the same but with even less excitement and risk, and mining is the above but not profitable beyond the very shady exploits.
Piracy pays enough that every week I make a solid profit, partially on the CG contribution but mostly on not paying for the cargo that gets sold. Sure it's not as great as the other methods, but it's challenging and fun to pirate in say a modified Asp Explorer.
LOL! did you get the gag?
I would disagree for the pirating part, in about 2h in my pirate T9 i can fill it with 400t of LTDs which is a total of around 39Mcr i think.
As for smuggling i haven't tried it so cant say.
As for smuggling i haven't tried it so cant say.
:O Interesting!
Read option #3 again. It's the same thing just stated negatively instead of positively. They are bored so they are looking for excitement, which means they become criminals just for the fun of it: aka douchery, inc.
Its fun and surprisingly good, pirate 2 NPC T9s and that should fill your hold.
That's pretty decent. I've done some mid range sightseeing missions. Best i had was over 20 million, and took me about 2 hours. But that's an exception.
If i can make 4-5 million from a single pirate haul in my Orca i'm happy. Used to get more in the Python of course, but nothing says "I'm robbing you and i don't actually need the money" better than doing it in an Orca.
Option 3 you listed implies a motive to cause loss in other players, my option and motive is that it's just the only reliable form of income that is challenging and fun. Bounty Hunting players WOULD be this, but in my past attempts at it most wanted players just log or wake and log to avoid rebuy, even if one has a KWS and/or Wake scanner to pursue instance.
The difference in motive is the point of contention and one you left out.