Is there a defence against torpedo + ramming attacks inside a station?

[Cosmos]

Did it look something like this?

[video=youtube_share;w2Vpab6_5m0]https://youtu.be/w2Vpab6_5m0[/video]

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

yes there is a defence. its called solo or private groups.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

What FD need to add is PD Pulse Laser for stations.
Rapid fire, 100% hit rate, one shots any ordinance, including SLFs, inside the docking area. Immune to chaff.
The station then shoots down the ships that launched it.

Done.



CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[Jukelo]

Attacks inside stations are considered GRIEFING by the majority of players, as well as Frontier.

If attacks inside stations were considered griefing by Frontier, they would disable weapons inside stations since it would be such a clear cut case. Instead they allow you to use weapons inside stations, just at a steep price.

 

[GG7]

If attacks inside stations were considered griefing by Frontier, they would disable weapons inside stations since it would be such a clear cut case. Instead they allow you to use weapons inside stations, just at a steep price.

The fact weapons are able to be used inside a docking bay is an oversight, not a design choice.

And attacks inside stations is 100% considered griefing by Frontier. If you don't believe me, email them and ask.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

The fact weapons are able to be used inside a docking bay is an oversight, not a design choice.

And attacks inside stations is 100% considered griefing by Frontier. If you don't believe me, email them and ask.

i thought they had allowed it because allowing for possible assassination missions use? although it would be an incredible feat to kill atarget on the pad inside a station and live to tell the tale.

 

[CMDR Harada]

I think the real answer to the problem is situational awareness. I go thru a check list every time I approach a station. TWICE in a CG.

Are there any un-docked human commanders acting odd, just floating about inside/outside the station ?
What are they doing ? A human has things to do, re-fuel/re-arm/repair and get back out to fight. Get goods and hit the next stop on your trade route. If they are "just hanging out", that's anomalous behavior. If they are docked, that's one thing. Floating around ? INSIDE the station or near the exit ? No es buenos.

Are they 'winged up" ?
In a group ? Just hanging out. Huge red flag. Now, they aren't doing anything, and they're doing it in a group. I've seen where one member of the group is docked inside, and 'spotting' for the others. Hairy Palms, ( Hammy Poser ? Haggis Preferred ? some name close to that ) uses this trick. He gets his less skilled friends to spot from inside and scan, and then he rams in his Clipper.

Have they scanned you ?
Not a sure sign of trouble, but if the others are true, it sure seals the deal for me. Scans mean you've been noticed, and if it's by someone looking for something to do... well, then they've found it.

These are all things I look for when I approach a station. Humans are the most vicious, back stabbing-est, kill you for a buck creatures in the universe. Showing illogical, aberrant behavior ? Even worse. Hardware mods will only work until the new meta comes out and then you'll be back to square one. People have found the 'blind spot' inside the stations. The old 'crusher' where you used to crush a smaller ship against the inside of the barrel using your larger ship and thrusters. Jamming up the mail slot. Suicide-winder exploding against speeders. Ramming. Now, using cheap ships with torps inside the barrel. It never ends.

You have a few options : Do nothing. Log out and re-instance. Switch to SOLO mode. Move to Mobius. If you enjoy OPEN, I'd log out and re-instance, or log out and come back an hour or so later. If that doesn't work, block list them. Or use SOLO to dock and then switch back to OPEN.

 

[GG7]

Please no ! The number of times I have activated hardpoints by mistake ...... [where is it]

But at the moment, the station will only react if you shoot the station, not if you shoot another player. This could easily be modified to include ALL weapons discharges of any kind, including deployment of delayed ordinance. Or... They could simply LOCK DOWN weapons systems the second you ask for and receive docking permission. This weapons lock would remain in effect until you cleared the no fire zone on departure.

A quick way to resolve this stupid and cheap excuse for gameplay once and for all.

 

[Jukelo]

The fact weapons are able to be used inside a docking bay is an oversight, not a design choice.

Considering stations react differrently to weapon fire inside the station and outside the station (firing inside the NFZ gives you a fine, firing inside the station at anything outrigght aggros the station - with some exceptions due to bugs or actual oversights), and considering Frontier buffed the station's interior firepower because some players were able to just tank it with engineered gear, it seems to me an awful lot of thought and tweaks went into something that is just an oversight.

And attacks inside stations is 100% considered griefing by Frontier. If you don't believe me, email them and ask.

I assume you can dig up a quote on that? You are claiming this with the kind of confidence I only show when I know I can back up my claim with a reliable source.

 

[GG7]

Like I said...EMAIL THEM AND ASK. What would be the point in Frontier encouraging the reporting of players for this crap if it was acceptable behavior?

I'm not going to do your homework for you. And I frankly could give a hoot if you believe me or not. I know it is their policy as do many other players. Maybe one of them will dig up a quote for you?

As for the increase in station firepower... If that was actually done, and I have seen nothing to indicate that it has been, (it has always been unstoppable) they would only have done that to account for engineered ships. Nothing more to it than that.

Once you get your answer back from Frontier confirming what I have already told you, then your presumptions as to their involvement with any of this will fall away like so much nothingness.

 

[Jukelo]

Like I said...EMAIL THEM AND ASK.

I'm not going to do your homework for you.

You made the initial claim...

Also, my post had two components: you replied to the second one, what are your thoughts on the first?

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Did it look something like this?

https://youtu.be/w2Vpab6_5m0

Thanks for linking the video I made, but it was a reverb mine attack, not a reverb torpedo attack as in my video.

 

[JosiahD]

I was there, trying to warn off people and detonate mines with SLFs, mostly in vain. I also saw you come in. You were hit by mines, not torpedoes.

There were two CMDRs, both in identical looking Cobra Mk IIIs. One had quad mine (a mix of reverberating cascade and ion disruptor) launchers to knock out shields and hold the target still. The second had quad rapid fire seekers and would sit in a sheltered part of the station interior and fire missiles at the target's thrusters. They weren't ramming, except as attacks of opportunity, and they were both losing ships with each attack. This doesn't matter because Cobra's are cheap and because of how the bounty system works.

I was hit by their attack coming in to cash CG bounty vouchers, but as I was in a hybrid corvette with fairly extreme integrity and module protection, my ship survived, with moderate damage.

Only real defense for a trader is to have a lot of shield gen and thuster integrity, plus a few MRPs, plus enough hull to survive until the station can destroy them...or to wait until there is a clear path.

You could try having a friend clear a path with an SLF, but they may have wised up to this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3It5eqGbZuI

And of course these are the same types who complain when people leave open to 'hide' from them in solo or private groups when participating in CGs and the like. <sigh>

 

[GG7]

You made the initial claim...

Also, my post had two components: you replied to the second one, what are your thoughts on the first?

Go back and read it again. (I added to my initial response)

Basically... You are grasping at straws here. Get a clue! You can start by asking Frontier what their stance is on shooting other players from inside a docking bay.

I can't say I have ever seen anyone before you attempt to claim that this behavior is not a violation of the EULA. That is unbelievably clueless. Wishful thinking perhaps?

If you are one of these losers, then it is just a matter of time before you get a game ban. Do you want me to find you a quote for that too?

 

[Morbad]

And of course these are the same types who complain when people leave open to 'hide' from them in solo or private groups when participating in CGs and the like. <sigh>

Not these two individuals.

I've encountered them numerous times over the course of the last two and a half years. I have never seen them do anything other than attack others inside stations. That's all they care to do.

Do you want me to find you a quote for that too?

Yes.

Nothing I've ever seen, heard, read, or reasonably been able to infer has stated or implied that attacking an opponent inside a station was automatically grieving, an exploit, or supposed to be physically impossible in game.

There are bugs and oversights that can be exploited to facilitate such attacks or the avoidance of consequences of launching them. You can certainly grief via attacks inside stations. But the ability to attack, with weapons or otherwise, in and of itself? That's absolutely intended.

 

[Jukelo]

But at the moment, the station will only react if you shoot the station, not if you shoot another player. This could easily be modified to include ALL weapons discharges of any kind [...]

[haha]

See, you claim to know, without being able to provide any source, what Frontier thinks. You claim to know, without any proof, that being able to shoot our weapons inside a station is an oversight.
And yet you don't even know a simple thing such as this, that is so central to the issue being discussed here:

Shooting inside a station, whether you're shooting at a wanted target, at the station itself, or even shooting out of the mail slot at empty space will trigger a lethal response from the station's weaponry. This 'fix' you propose is already how the game works. Now there is an oversight regarding mines (and possibly missiles/torpedoes and maybe SLFs, haven't checked if Frontier fixed that yet) that fails to trigger the station's response when you merely fire them, but eveything else is already punished with near instant death by the station.

This is fundamentally different to how the station reacts to all other instances of you using your weapons, both outside and inside the NFZ. Even in Anarchy stations which are otherwise very lenient.
When you realize that, it comes naturally that Frontier actually sat down and thought about what should happen when a player uses their weapons inside a station, and deliberately made it that way. They didn't outright disable weapons (they could have), they didn't fine the player for weapon discharge (like happens when shooting at empty space inside the NFZ), they didn't leave it the same as outside the NFZ (random discharge is fine, shooting at a clean target causes bounty and lethal response). They deliberately made it so that you can shoot inside stations, but don't live to tell the tale.

This is all common knowledge any half curious player has, and yet you, who apparently don't know the first thing about that topic, have the galls to tell me to contact Frontier to substantiate your claim.

 

[Phazon Xenomorph]

Go back and read it again. (I added to my initial response)

Basically... You are grasping at straws here. Get a clue! You can start by asking Frontier what their stance is on shooting other players from inside a docking bay.

I can't say I have ever seen anyone before you attempt to claim that this behavior is not a violation of the EULA. That is unbelievably clueless. Wishful thinking perhaps?

If you are one of these losers, then it is just a matter of time before you get a game ban. Do you want me to find you a quote for that too?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_burden_of_proof

 

[Rafe Zetter]

I'd just like to be a pedant and correct the usage of "Crazy Ivan". It's when a soviet sub makes a sudden and sharp left or right turn to "clear the baffles" - the dead zone sonar cannot see into at the immediate rear of the sub, just aft of the propeller, because of the wake and distortion created by those propellers. Doing the manouvre allows them to see if there is another sub hiding in the space where the dead zone used to be.

It was used in the book / film "Hunt for Red October" but is a real soviet tactic used.

Closing the gap on torpedo's in RL is a very stupid manouvre as it relies on the default setting of the arming sequence, which can be changed and unknown by the target, and unlike the film you CANNOT HEAR IT GO LIVE.

(also unlike in the film, if your target managed to somehow redirect your own torpedo at you, you could simply self destruct it, before it hits you)

 

[Valethar]

I think you are right about the ramming attacks, but that is one thing that will be addressed in the new karma system when it comes in.

As for defence against torpedoes you can try three things. First there is the crazy Ivan. Head directly at the attacking ship. If you can get REAL close before they fire the torpedoes will not have time to arm before hitting you so will do no damage. Torpedoes take about 2.5 seconds to arm (there is a reason it's called a CRAZY Ivan*). Seeker missiles take about 0.5 seconds and dumfires have no arming time.

Second (if you are near a station/outpost), get within the no fire zone asap. It wont stop them launching at you but the station will then open up on them.

Best defence though is carry a point defence turret. Really effective against the slow torpedoes and not bad against other missiles (not so good against packhounds though).

*'Crazy Ivan' originates from the cold war. Russian submarine commanders would use this tactic to try to avoid being torpedoed by British/American hunter killer subs. Get the timing just a bit wrong though and the attacker couldn't miss.

He's in a Cutter. He'd have to be crazy to even try that.

Won't help him in this case anyway, as they're firing as he's in the mail slot, so there's no room to maneuver.

 

[A D]

Fdev could solve station camping by a stricter weapons ban on all ships within the nfz. Activating hardpoints can result in Kos. Rather than firing.

Not sure this is a good idea. I've accidently deployed my hardpoints more than once in a no fire zone (as the X button on the game pad, in combination with the D pad, is used to bring up the navigation panel). Also, not sure, but I think the discovery scanner will show up as a deployed hardpoint if deployed in normal space (although presumably this would be excluded with your suggested change).