Free The Cobra MKIV

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.................... You got it as long as you bought the base game and Horizons separately. It was buying Horizons as a separate expansion that actually qualified you for it, ................

I don't really want to be picky on a Sunday morning but this is not actually precisely correct. My LEP account qualified and of course that did not purchase Horizons separately. As others have said it was for people who bought Horizons by a certain date.

The "... available in the game only to players who joined us in the first year – forever" thing got stretched to allow XBone adopters to qualify if they bought by a certain date, that's why I said that they could do a similar thing for the early PS4 peeps. But of course we could be stretching the "in our first year" a bit far then. ;)
 
I don't really want to be picky on a Sunday morning but this is not actually precisely correct. My LEP account qualified and of course that did not purchase Horizons separately. As others have said it was for people who bought Horizons by a certain date.

The "... available in the game only to players who joined us in the first year – forever" thing got stretched to allow XBone adopters to qualify if they bought by a certain date, that's why I said that they could do a similar thing for the early PS4 peeps. But of course we could be stretching the "in our first year" a bit far then. ;)

Mate I already said all LEP and beta backers got it. That post was specifically addressing the fact of it not being exclusively a pre-order bonus for people who were neither LEP holders or beta backers. It was also stretched further for Xbox players, they could buy it until July. I agree with you 100%, the only point I'm trying to clarify here was that it was never a 'pre-order exclusive' for Horizons.



Oooh. Checkmate.

Not really because that is a statement from Braben made before the ship was available saying what they were going to do, whereas the support page makes it abundantly clear that whatever the intention was, the ship was actually available to anybody who bought the Horizons expansion separately up to and including 4th Feb 2016 which was a) over a year after the game was originally released and b) after Horizons was released. If anything, it's proof that if he bought Horizons on the basis that the Cobra MkIV would be exclusive to pre-orders then he's already been ripped off according to his own definition and should probably just pipe down.

Nobody is disputing that the option of purchasing the Cobra MkIV was given to people who pre-ordered Horizons (that's how I have access to it) but it was available after then to people who bought Horizons as the separate expansion right up to 5 February 2016. What caused it to be removed was the change to Horizons becoming a DLC for the main game.

I know this because a) I have a functioning memory, b) the game's official support pages confirm it and c) here's the post from Zac which makes it very clear:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ous-Store-And-Product-Info?highlight=gold+asp

In addition to these there are a couple of other changes we will be making at the same time. The base price of the Horizons season pass DLC will be £25 (or equivalent in other currencies) and will not include access to Elite Dangerous, this must be purchased separately. It will still include the entire season of content coming in Horizons. This means that the current loyalty discount to Elite Dangerous: Horizons will no longer exist as all existing players will be able to upgrade directly to the Horizons season pass.

Finally, by way of a special thank you to everyone who has already bought Horizons before these changes are made, we are giving you an unreleased Asp Explorer gold paint job. And don’t forget, you still have access to the Cobra Mk IV, and this will apply to all players that buy Horizons (and already own Elite Dangerous) before the changes go live tomorrow – new players that get the new deal will not get it.

Posted on 4 February 2016.
 
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...he's already been ripped off according to his own definition and should probably just pipe down.

I will not, as you so elegantly and in a good manner of discussion said, "just pipe down". Cobra IV was an offer at the start of Horizons, and for that occasion only. Time limited offer. Both Braben and Zac said so. Please read the last few words of the article you posted (I'll green them for you).

...And don’t forget, you still have access to the Cobra Mk IV, and this will apply to all players that buy Horizons (and already own Elite Dangerous) before the changes go live tomorrow – new players that get the new deal will not get it.

So maybe it's time you do something with this pipe of yours.
 
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I will not, as you so elegantly and in a good manner of discussion said, "just pipe down". Cobra IV was an offer at the start of Horizons, and for that occasion only. Time limited offer. Both Braben and Zac said so. Please read the last few words of the article you posted (I'll green them for you).



So maybe it's time you do something with this pipe of yours.

New players that buy AFTER THE 4TH FEBRUARY 2016 won't get it. It's there in black and white in both the support answer and the post that you supposedly just read.

Horizons was released on 15 DECEMBER 2015. So tell me, is 4th February 2016 before or after 15 December 2015. I'm not disputing that it was a time limited offer. I've never disputed that it was a time limited offer, I just posted two things that confirm it was a time-limited offer and if you go back to the very first page of the thread, you'll see I did the same thing in post #11!

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...e-Cobra-MKIV?p=5730980&viewfull=1#post5730980

For the last time I am simply saying that unlike some players have suggested it was not a PRE ORDER EXCLUSIVE. Because you can't pre-order something in February 2016 if it has been released in December 2015.

Oh and incidentaly this isn't a discussion per se. I am stating facts, supported by evidence. You are stating facts and then posting evidence which inherently disproves your facts.

Jesus Christ.
 
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For the last time I am simply saying that unlike some players have suggested it was not a PRE ORDER EXCLUSIVE. Because you can't pre-order something in February 2016 if it has been released in December 2015.

For all I know it was at first a pre-order exclusive thing. FD changed how Horizon got released after players complained about price and Horizons including the base game. FD then changed Horizons to DLC and changed the price and kept offering the Cobra MK IV as a way to calm down the player base.

Offering a ship as a pre-order good or as a way to motivate players to buy a new season then turned into a DLC was a bad idea from the beginning.

Hopefully FD learned from that debacle.
 
For all I know it was at first a pre-order exclusive thing. FD changed how Horizon got released after players complained about price and Horizons including the base game. FD then changed Horizons to DLC and changed the price and kept offering the Cobra MK IV as a way to calm down the player base.

Aye. See that's why I told Spiridon to pipe down you see - because his stance is that the ship should remain as an exclusive because it was sold as an exclusive, yet he then posted a comment from Braben stating:

Existing players will also unlock the exclusive Cobra Mk IV ship in Elite Dangerous: Horizons. The Cobra Mk IV will be available in the game only to players who joined us in the first year – forever. It’s our ‘thank you’ for your faith in the game...

...signed with David Braben.

https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/node/247


I was just pointing out to him that for someone who holds the concept of exclusivity so dear, he seems to have very little to say about the fact that FDev have already broken the exclusivity that he referred to in the comment that he quoted since the ship was ultimately not 'only made available to people who joined us in the first year' at all. The first year ended in December 2015, the anniversary of 1.0's release and when Horizons was released. The Cobra MkIV was available to anybody who bought Horizons up to 4 February 2016.

Using a quote to support a point about exclusivity and show why something should remain exclusive, when the quote actually demonstrates beyond any doubt that the exclusivity in question was changed after the original announcement is hardly the basis of a sound argument.

Offering a ship as a pre-order good or as a way to motivate players to buy a new season then turned into a DLC was a bad idea from the beginning.

Hopefully FD learned from that debacle.

Totally agree.
 
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And my entire point was it was a limited time offer. Then, and never again.

Why is that so hard to grasp?

What time was it limited for? Simple question. Don't quote, write in your own words.

Then tell me why it being limited to December 2015 ('ONLY for people who joined us in the first year', as per the quote that YOU posted) but subsequently being available until February 2016 is OK, but being limited to February 2016 then subsequently being available again would not be OK? I mean really, I'm not being obtuse here.

By the way I'll be leaving it after this comment anyway because I haven't got the badgering warning yet but it will obviously be coming. I know from long experience that asking someone the same thing four times to get them to explain what appears to be a gaping hole in their logic is deemed to be harassment of some kind.
 
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What time was it limited for? Simple question. Don't quote, write in your own words.

Then tell me why it being limited to December 2015 but subsequently available until February 2016 is OK, but being limited to February 2016 then subsequently being available again would not be OK?

OK, I will try to make it easier for you: this whole thread is about wish of people who would like to have Mk IV and others explaining it was a limited time offer, and they can't have it now.

Are you still with me? Good.

The exact dates are completely irrelevant now. The only relevant fact for this thread is that the period has passed and it's no more Mk IV. Yes, due to exclusivity. Exclusivity as in "you can have it only if you buy Horizons now". This "now" was stretched to 4th February, but still remains exclusive. (defined several pages before) Exclusive to the people who did it then. What in there is so confusing for you?

And let's not bring pipes into discussion please, I have several good ideas for you and yours ;)
 
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The exact dates are completely irrelevant now. The only relevant fact for this thread is that the period has passed and it's no more Mk IV.

I agree with this. It wasn't that the Cobra MkIV was made available, stopped, and then made available again. FD simply extended the time it was available. Once it stopped being available, that was it. Just because the timing was out, doesn't mean that the intended purpose of the offer had been compromised. It would be compromised if the Cobra was offered again.
 
What time was it limited for? Simple question. Don't quote, write in your own words.

Then tell me why it being limited to December 2015 ('ONLY for people who joined us in the first year', as per the quote that YOU posted) but subsequently being available until February 2016 is OK, but being limited to February 2016 then subsequently being available again would not be OK? I mean really, I'm not being obtuse here.

"The first year" didn't literally mean within a year of the original PC launch date - it meant within the first year/season of the game before Horizons itself launched and was no longer beta (year 2) - that happened 5th Feb on PC and later on XBox. That's why there are different qualifying dates as described in the official support FAQ for "Can I get the Cobra Mk IV?" here.

[edit]
Actually, I'm going to correct myself there... the go-live date of Horizons on PC *was* in December...
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/211692-Horizons-and-1-5-launch-Servers-offline.

The store description did not reference the "first year" thing though, it was "for a limited time":
For a limited time all existing Elite: Dangerous players will receive a £10 loyalty discount plus the exclusive Cobra Mark IV ship when ordering the Elite Dangerous: Horizons – Beta through the Frontier Store. Discount will be automatically applied at checkout.
https://web.archive.org/web/2015080...s-cat/elite-dangerous-horizons-pre-order.html

The Feb date was when the product (advertising the exclusive) was replaced with the season pass instead. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=230150
 
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"The first year" didn't literally mean within a year of the original PC launch date - it meant within the first year/season of the game before Horizons itself launched and was no longer beta (year 2) - that happened 5th Feb on PC and later on XBox. That's why there are different qualifying dates as described in the official support FAQ for "Can I get the Cobra Mk IV?" here.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

Horizons for the PC launched on 15 December 2015. That is when 2.0 was released as a non-beta, full release retail product. I know this because I had already bought it on pre-release order and it became available on that date, its release date. You can also do a quick google if you don't believe me and find any number of announcements of its release, or indeed ask anybody here with a functioning memory, or just search the forum for the release announcement.

The original game (v1.0) was launched on 16 December 2014.

At the time Braben made that comment about the Cobra MkIV being only available to players that joined within the first year (which was made before Horizons was released on 15 December 2015, hence him talking about it in the future tense) it did in fact mean 'exactly within the first year' because the year in question was the period between the two release dates above which you will notice just happens to be a calendar year. Both of those dates are a matter of public record.

The different qualifying dates of 5th Feb 2016 for PC and 30 July 2016 for Xbox are not the dates that Horizons launched or came out of beta. They have nothing at all to do with that. They are the dates that FDev changed the way that Horizons was sold in the respective stores. Prior to those dates it was a separate standalone purchase, after those dates it became a DLC purchase for the base game. That is explained in the post I linked on the previous page from Zac. It was the change from standalone purchase to DLC that eventually prompted the removal of the Cobra MKIV, as explained clearly in Zac's post. I'll link it again here.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ous-Store-And-Product-Info?highlight=gold+asp

As stated there, anybody who bought the Horizons expansion under the old store system up to 4 February 2016, almost 2 months after Horizons was released on 15 December 2015, got the Cobra MkIV.

That is directly at odds with Braben's comments made before release which make it abundantly clear that the ship was originally only supposed to be available to Horizons pre-orders, i.e. people who bought it within the first year, 16 December 2014 to 15 December 2015. That's why he said 'a year' - because he meant a year and was referring to a period between game releases which by an amazing concidence if he didn't mean it, just happened to be exactly a year.

All of this only happened 18 months agoand I remember the confusion at the time about the Cobra MkIV because people were under the impression (from Braben's comments) that it was a pre-release exclusive but became clear when Horizons was actually released that it was still available. Up to 4th February 2016, when its removal was prompted by a change to the way that Horizons was sold, not by any date set with reference to release dates.

I'm not trying to be rude here but when I've taken the time and effort to actually link the information, you could at least have the decency to read it and understand it before you start trying to contradict me.

I'm really done with this now. There's no dispute that the ship was a time-restricted offer as evidenced by the fact it was removed and I've never suggested otherwise.

However going on about how they can't renenge on that when the original time limited offer was in fact changed (and saying 'oh but they never stopped selling it they just extended the date' is sophistry of the highest order within the context of the discussion - the comment from Braben was posted by someone trying to illustrate why they shouldn't sell it after a stated excusivity date when it actually proved that they already had) is logic with a hole you could drive a bus through.

I already have the ship. I also know that some people just don't want people to have the chance of getting it and I accept that - I said in my post on the first page of the thread that some players would have that opinion because they've had it every other time the issue has come up. I just wish they had the testicular fortitude to own that opinion instread of coming up with justifications based in faulty logic and backed up with facts that actually disprove the very basis of their argument.
 
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we just cross posted and I'd corrected myself.

The problem area is -as I said a long time back in this thread- the original Horizons store product advertising the exclusivity of the ship if you bought it. Once that product was removed, the exclusive item went with it.
The ship was sold as an exclusive, hence legally it has to remain so.

[edit] cut the personal stuff Red.
 
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Mr Anders, can we approach this whole thing from the other angle?

1) did Mk IV had a time slot to be bought as an exclusive gift for the purchase in that period?
2) was it clearly stated that after that it won't be available ever again?
3) has that time period passed?

Only those three points are relevant for this thread. All else is nitpicking and derailing and whatnot.
 
Nope, for some of us it's the ONLY thing we've gotten from Horizons so far... the rest... MEH! :)


Best answer right here!

OP: nope, FDev shouldn't make it available as that would be (another) spear thrown into the backs of their customers. It was exclusive, and used to get people to buy Horizon's in a certain period. If you missed it, well, that's simply too bad.
 
we just cross posted and I'd corrected myself.

Spotted that, no worries.

Also I don't know what you're considering to be 'personal stuff' but if it's the last paragraph it was directed not at you but at someone who had just implied I should insert my pipe into an orifice usually investigated only by proctologists, so I'm claiming fair use on that score. :D

Mr Anders, can we approach this whole thing from the other angle?

That's the only answer to my question that's needed really isn't it? :D

1) did Mk IV had a time slot to be bought as an exclusive gift for the purchase in that period?
2) was it clearly stated that after that it won't be available ever again?
3) has that time period passed?

I already confirmed yes, yes and yes to those three in at least three posts. Including the two periods for which it was stated it would be time limited for, the original one and then the later one which was longer, thereby changing the exclusivity period, which I thought you weren't in favour of? No dispute whatsoever that it was a time limited offer. Like I said, I acknowledged that and correctly stated the period concerned in post #11.

Only those three points are relevant for this thread. All else is nitpicking and derailing and whatnot.

As for nitpicking and derailing and whatnot, just remember who it was that brought Braben's comment about the exclusivity period ending on 15 December 2015 into the discussion to begin with mate. If you're struggling, check your post history.

I only mentioned it at all because you brought it up to illustrate something that it actually refuted. You can't treat it as fair comment when you want to use it to defend a stance (i.e. that once a period of exclusivity has been announced it shouldn't be subject to later change) but call it 'nitpicking and derailing and whatnot' when I do nothing other than point out the factual accuracy of what it says. As I said, that is pure, trasparent sophistry.

I particularly resent 'derailing' because the entire purpose of me explaining it was to ensure that the ongoing discussion is based on facts that are presented accurately, not least because most of the players who may want access to the ship won't have been here during the events we're talking about and so won't have the benefit of remembering them as I do. All of which is highly relevant to this thread.

I'd suggest we both wind it in now and let other players discuss the issue because I doubt there's anybody who isn't sufficiently up to speed with our opinions on the topic.

Edit: I should thank you for the pipe comment though, it reminded me to change my avatar from Harold Wilson (which I was only using during the general election) back to the traditional Dr Decker.
 
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Mr Anders, can we approach this whole thing from the other angle?

1) did Mk IV had a time slot to be bought as an exclusive gift for the purchase in that period?
2) was it clearly stated that after that it won't be available ever again?
3) has that time period passed?

Only those three points are relevant for this thread. All else is nitpicking and derailing and whatnot.

So, the opinions of the Cobra IV owners are nitpicking and derailing? Sounds to me like you are playing judge and jury.

As to the exclusivity, I think that the proper answer would be for Frontier to provide some compensation to those players and releasing the ship.

For me, a unique decal would be sufficient, and, yes, I am a C IV eligible player.
 
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Mate I already said all LEP and beta backers got it. .....................

I couldn't care less what else you might have said, I was correcting the sentence I quoted.


P.S. - The Cobra MkIV was never "removed" - it is just not visible in shipyards to non-qualifying accounts. Your sentence "What caused it to be removed was the change to Horizons becoming a DLC for the main game." is just plain wrong.
 
I think it should be unlocked as it's been out for ages and was available for Horizon players for ages. Free it now we've enjoyed our fun and some newer players are now hit with the "not available" wall, freeing it now you'll make it all even.
 
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