While I understand that line of reasoning and fully agree with it (we all want quality...well quantity too but we understand its an alpha at the moment, we should have at least quality at this stage) I cannot share your enthusiasm and confidence that this is actually the case with Star Citizen and the actual reason why they reduce the number of avdertised systems. Your reasoning would be an understandable reason for it but we dont know if thats actually the reason for it. For all I know CiG is unable to implement and use all the tech they were stating these past few years and have to fully handcraft these systems and even then we cannot expect them to be fully fleshed out and brimming with content. We can "hope" but hope doesnt really has a place in a dicussion of facts I think.
Star Citizen Thread v6
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While I understand that line of reasoning and fully agree with it (we all want quality...well quantity too but we understand its an alpha at the moment, we should have at least quality at this stage) I cannot share your enthusiasm and confidence that this is actually the case with Star Citizen and the actual reason why they reduce the number of avdertised systems. Your reasoning would be an understandable reason for it but we dont know if thats actually the reason for it. For all I know CiG is unable to implement and use all the tech they were stating these past few years and have to fully handcraft these systems and even then we cannot expect them to be fully fleshed out and brimming with content. We can "hope" but hope doesnt really has a place in a dicussion of facts I think.
Do you guys have some special forum/message board where you meet up and come up with all this stuff? Jeeezzz... those are assets, there is almost no game play, after millions of dollars and with few studios you have less than some indie game on steam. Face it and start demanding from RSI some actual game.
They probably have a discord channel where they all rehearse what they are going to say. I find it weird how they all have the same approach to marketing this game, pages of images, videos and gifs and copy pasted articles as if assaulting you with all this information is somehow persuasive. It's kind of sad tbh http://massivelyop.com/2017/07/15/make-my-mmo-july-15-2017/#comments for example.
Wut?
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That's just "first game to truly require an SSD in order to compensate for bloated assets, poor architecture and amateurish implementation", translated from English into SC Ultra.
To be honest 0 game play isn't quite correct. You have a handful of missions you can take that require you to fly to, exit your ship, enter the relay satellite and conduct a repair. However you have to deal with (for the shooters I guess) two or more bad guys before you can even exit your ship. So if your lousy at shooting bad guys, as I seem to be, you never complete a mission.
Now I did shoot them once and got out of my ship before I decided I had parked way to far from the satellite. So I re entered my ship to reposition and got a message that the mission was forfeit or something to that.
I would expect and hope that they would have a beginner system or area where new players will not get set upon. But unless we're in solo, we don't have that in ED do we.
Chief
Oh that's a simple one Zetta, star citizen is the first game to have SSD's. It stands for Special Snowflake Designation and was one of the offensive customer account tags CIG used to label the people who were kind enough to give them money for a game they failed to deliver in 2014 and have now cut in size by 90-95%.
You know what - now that I think of it you can in fact get lost in SC ships. My character is getting lost in the ships door geometry all the time! An there is no way out! [haha][haha][haha]
It's the only reasonable way of getting out of Mustang.
I don't believe I've ever said that the delays are perfectly fine and I'm not sure who "you guys" are that I am supposed to be a part of. But the great thing about this forum is I never have to see your rantings if I don't want to anymore.
Its happening to me all the time. They talk a lot about those physic grids but it just dont work, your character is fighting the ships geometry all the time.
Lol, ignore the difficult bit of the post and then vaguely hint at ignoring someone?I guess thats easier than answer simple questions.
I would imagine that would be extremely frustrating if there are players in those bigger ships where roles will be more important and then at some critical moment someone disappears through the deck plates. I suppose it only happens when walking around on the ship and not when sat in a seat or gunning position.
So how long is okay for you to wait from this point?
20 years, 10 years, 5 years...?
I see this implicit or explicit 'just wait' or 'keep the faith' line so often, but no-one saying it cares to quantify how long they are prepared to wait.
And in the mean time are you going to continue funding them?
I ask, as based on current performance, arguably whatever date is given by CIG it is going to be missed and have features removed. And if this doesn't bother you, well that's fine, it just that I doubt you'd be happy with this in any other aspect of life.
"Yeah I know you ordered a Big-Burger Delux Meal Deal with fries, but you can only have the bun, oh and we don't have any buns, so you'll have to come back next week to pick it up. That's 7.99, thanks and have a nice day."
As an aside. Which universe are CIG claiming to be building now? They continually pump this 'line', but even if they manage 100 planets (at some point, maybe, who knows when, or if) well, that's more than a few planets short of a galaxy, let alone a universe.
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1) It was 100 systems (so presumably +-300 planets). It is now 5-10 systems, so presumably 15-30 planets. Which makes no sense for a game selling massive deep-space exploration vessels for hundreds of dollars.
2) SC fans are willing to wait 1-2 years, with the deadline being moved one day every day. Until they break, and are replaced by new fans willing to wait 1-2 years.
Hm how strange i remember they advertised making only 100 system because doing less systems but richer with gameplay and better then any PG would be able to create....now its down to 5? Thats a pretty huge cut....
95% cut atleast on the amount of systems...thats is uhm....damn i am lost for words.
Not sure I understand the positivity with which the gamestar article has been received.
Even allowing for elements lost-in-translation, there's much in it that leaves me very uncomfortable.
I could have gone on, but I realised that I already needed spoiler tags. But the bottom line for me, as an impartial observer (who would love another space game) is that this is all about softening up the supporters for a not very impressive 3.0, and minimum 2-4 more years of funding. edit: with the lovely caveat for CIG that 'truths' were lost in translation.
But don't worry, 3.0 is guaranteed for December.
2016.
Whoops, sorry, 2017. Easy mistake, right?
Even allowing for elements lost-in-translation, there's much in it that leaves me very uncomfortable.
Every goal is with current technology achievable, says C.R.... ...But not every goal or idea will be implemented in the way it is planned because they realise, that it isn't fun or a good way to do it this way. But they have no problem to go back and start new to make a better implementation.
So, everything is possible, just not how they told you, or have shown, and not even how CIG currently have it planned to work... so, I guess they don't know how their goals will work... yet. Oh, and nothing can ever be considered finished, so even that's not certain... ...the stuff they don't know... and the stuff they do ...
Marco Corbetta and Carsten Wenzel (ex-Crytek members, now for 2 years at CIG) make clear, that there is no CryEngine anymore. If you compare the engines 1:1 you have around 50% of CryEngine code and 50% of new engine code. But if you look at the actually used code by SC, you have around 10% CryEngine code and 90% new engine code.
So there is still (50% of) CryEngine left in place, just they're ignoring it. But the code/overhead remains - which I guess means that they converted the unused code to 64bit? Wasn't that a tremendous waste of (a year's) effort....? Perhaps, building their own engine would have been sensible from day #1.
Because this technology still needs some time, it is important to continue to rework the CryEngine to allow for much more, like a huge amount of NPCs.
Are they going to rework the remaining 10% they do use, or the 40% they don't yet use, or maybe the 50% they've already re-worked? So, is it that that the as-yet unused part of CryEngine is key to the game, or that they've not got the already re-worked bits working properly?
To make a hole [sic] solar system with huge planets possible, you need to make it possible, that the engine can handle these coordinates. Such precision in such a huge world is only possible with 64Bit precision... This change took them about a year.
But moving to Amazon (Timberyard?) only took a matter of a few weeks. That doesn't sound right. Not with a 50% modded engine.
Currently there are 24 players on one server, which will probably not change in 3.0)... The rework of the engine also affects the network. There will be many servers that can communicate with each other that will enable instances with thousands of players
So, they are sure they know what to do to allow 1000-strong instances (else how can they be sure), but can't do it for 3.0. Doesn't sound right. Oh, but hang on...
When they get 24 players with 4 cores and the scaling with CPU relatively linear to the player count, they can get far more than 100 players on one server
So is that 100-user-instances? And is that the players with 4 core CPUs (!?) or the servers (!!!) or..........?
The plan is, to have 90% of the population to be NPCs
So, if instances are 1,000 strong, then are they saying that there'll be 9,000 NPC's in there too? Doesn't sound right.
The Demo they played run on an i7 5930K, Nvidia GTX 980 and 32GB RAM with about 30 Frames.... The minimum specs for the PC are these: 4 core CPU, 2GB GPU, 8GB RAM. Recommended is an SSD...
Even allowing for performance improvements... do these two statements align? Well, I guess they might if the release comes in 2020+.
Will there be a downgrade? No, because they don't have to develop for consoles. They can develop for future hardware and people can turn back settings by themselves. And current High-end hardware will be in 2 years only upper middle-class hardware and SC will hopefully be played for many years
Sorry, I was being far too negative. ETA now 2019. Sorry for saying 2020.
They are not done with many things for 3.0, so more delays can be expected.
3.0 in December?
They have huge ambitions for everything although it is only in an alpha state.
Still only in alpha, and therefore nowhere near MVP yet?
So, everything is possible, just not how they told you, or have shown, and not even how CIG currently have it planned to work... so, I guess they don't know how their goals will work... yet. Oh, and nothing can ever be considered finished, so even that's not certain... ...the stuff they don't know... and the stuff they do ...
Marco Corbetta and Carsten Wenzel (ex-Crytek members, now for 2 years at CIG) make clear, that there is no CryEngine anymore. If you compare the engines 1:1 you have around 50% of CryEngine code and 50% of new engine code. But if you look at the actually used code by SC, you have around 10% CryEngine code and 90% new engine code.
So there is still (50% of) CryEngine left in place, just they're ignoring it. But the code/overhead remains - which I guess means that they converted the unused code to 64bit? Wasn't that a tremendous waste of (a year's) effort....? Perhaps, building their own engine would have been sensible from day #1.
Because this technology still needs some time, it is important to continue to rework the CryEngine to allow for much more, like a huge amount of NPCs.
Are they going to rework the remaining 10% they do use, or the 40% they don't yet use, or maybe the 50% they've already re-worked? So, is it that that the as-yet unused part of CryEngine is key to the game, or that they've not got the already re-worked bits working properly?
To make a hole [sic] solar system with huge planets possible, you need to make it possible, that the engine can handle these coordinates. Such precision in such a huge world is only possible with 64Bit precision... This change took them about a year.
But moving to Amazon (Timberyard?) only took a matter of a few weeks. That doesn't sound right. Not with a 50% modded engine.
Currently there are 24 players on one server, which will probably not change in 3.0)... The rework of the engine also affects the network. There will be many servers that can communicate with each other that will enable instances with thousands of players
So, they are sure they know what to do to allow 1000-strong instances (else how can they be sure), but can't do it for 3.0. Doesn't sound right. Oh, but hang on...
When they get 24 players with 4 cores and the scaling with CPU relatively linear to the player count, they can get far more than 100 players on one server
So is that 100-user-instances? And is that the players with 4 core CPUs (!?) or the servers (!!!) or..........?
The plan is, to have 90% of the population to be NPCs
So, if instances are 1,000 strong, then are they saying that there'll be 9,000 NPC's in there too? Doesn't sound right.
The Demo they played run on an i7 5930K, Nvidia GTX 980 and 32GB RAM with about 30 Frames.... The minimum specs for the PC are these: 4 core CPU, 2GB GPU, 8GB RAM. Recommended is an SSD...
Even allowing for performance improvements... do these two statements align? Well, I guess they might if the release comes in 2020+.
Will there be a downgrade? No, because they don't have to develop for consoles. They can develop for future hardware and people can turn back settings by themselves. And current High-end hardware will be in 2 years only upper middle-class hardware and SC will hopefully be played for many years
Sorry, I was being far too negative. ETA now 2019. Sorry for saying 2020.
They are not done with many things for 3.0, so more delays can be expected.
3.0 in December?
They have huge ambitions for everything although it is only in an alpha state.
Still only in alpha, and therefore nowhere near MVP yet?
I could have gone on, but I realised that I already needed spoiler tags. But the bottom line for me, as an impartial observer (who would love another space game) is that this is all about softening up the supporters for a not very impressive 3.0, and minimum 2-4 more years of funding. edit: with the lovely caveat for CIG that 'truths' were lost in translation.
But don't worry, 3.0 is guaranteed for December.
2016.
Whoops, sorry, 2017. Easy mistake, right?
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There will not be instances with thousands of players. Its not even close to being an honest ambitious goal. Its straight up nonsense. As always: the bigger the nonsense, the more vague the delivery time.
It wasnt an advertisement, it was a stretch goal. At $6,000,000. Yes, a stretch goal at less than 5% of what they eventually gathered, and they now promise 5% of it. Do the math.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals
"But the scope increased!"
Oh, there will be "server sharing" and many hundreds, if not thousands of players will be able to hold massive Org battles and mix drinks for each other. It just needs a bit of game logic and Magic Germans to refactor the Nettcode(tm) into Item 3.0. You'll see. Just you wait!
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