Elite: Carebear

[jasonbarron]

With all the recent threads about PvP, PvE, Open, Solo, Blocking, CLogging and Logout timers fighting on forums seems to be a thing again. As usual, everyone who prefers to not get randomly shot at for no apparent reason is getting called carebear, coward and special snowflake. There are also remarks about hiding in solo, the game being called Elite: Dangerous, a cut throat galaxy, people fearing the risk and playing as advertised. I think I have named them all.

The goal always seems to be to get traders in Open and to have them stay and fight when they get attacked. Or to discredit someone's argument. But if the best argument is that people should fear no risk, that they should be no carebears, why is it that you always chose to attack the weakest? You only fight if you have nothing to fear, isn't that exactly what you accuse them of?

I have no problem with people playing pirates and traders or cops and robbers. But if you want to insult others for their preferred playstyle you should look who is talking, carebear

What exactly is the point of this thread? To try to bring out the worst in people?

I've seen examples of this you language you cite, but it is less common than the constant stream of invective aimed at PvPers on this forum, the foundational premise that PvPers are wrong and bad for what they do, and it pales in comparison to the language PvPers are subjected to within game chat.

Again, just not seeing a point worthy of it's very own thread.

 

[Tarman]

What exactly is the point of this thread? To try to bring out the worst in people?

I've seen examples of this you language you cite, but it is less common than the constant stream of invective aimed at PvPers on this forum, the foundational premise that PvPers are wrong and bad for what they do, and it pales in comparison to the language PvPers are subjected to within game chat.

Again, just not seeing a point worthy of it's very own thread.

I have some pink champagne on ice if we're heading that highway. No wine tho, sorry.

Forums seem to have been cranked up lately. Must be subliminal messaging from the game.

 

[Quantis Trap]

I think eventually, when Frontier finally makes the needed changes to the crime and punishment system, this will be better.

What I'm hoping will be the case, in no particular order, is this:
* Anarchy systems will still be anything goes and no-one gets penalized for killing other players in those systems.
* Killing other players in systems with pilots federation presence will cause a pilots federation galaxy wide wanted state like what Frontier is talking about and it will be undesirable enough to curb the random violence we're seeing now.
* Players will be able to easily plot routes which avoid dangerous (anarchy, etc) systems.
* Players will still be able to run in fast, moderately protected ships if they so desire.
* Compelling open only features will arise which cannot be fully accessed in solo to incite people to move back into open play. Some larger groups could have access to these features too.

I think future things like this will go a long way to making the game more enjoyable for a greater audience.

 

[EvE4evah]

…May i dare make an assumption: toxicity levels seem to increase in presence of Eve online players, but maybe it's just my imagination... or something bad is speading / phasing in Elite

EvE players reported related to a rising in forum toxicity
Go back to your game, different humans
/s

 

[Quantis Trap]

EvE players reported related to a rising in forum toxicity
Go back to your game, different humans
/s

You seem to be both pro Eve and pro Elite, so in light of that, I'm not sure what you meant to communicate here.

 

[EvE4evah]

You seem to be both pro Eve and pro Elite, so in light of that, I'm not sure what you meant to communicate here.

o7

It was a jest. Funny how AnotherVoice managed to group EvE players in an homogenous hive mind of sorts, different from us normal humans who play ED. No offense intended and all respect, AnotherVoice (let's try and be another [different] voice! Cheers!)

*Edit for clarification*: all kinds of minds and role-playing happen in EvE. There's this guy who AFK mines for long hours, the guy who sits in stations trading and manipulating markets for weeks, the guy who produces ships and modules and retro-engineers stuff alone in a player-owned station, the guy who's a Lone Wolf on a cheap ship with cheap efficient modules and goes PvPing versus the world, the guy who mindlessly follows a blob fleet of 200 searching for a large fight for hours through lots of systems, the guy who thrives in wormhole space, the guy who converts real money into blingy, expensive ships and goes ratting, the guy who betrays his corp and steals their assets, the guy who suicide ganks miners, thw guy who lives for forum warrioring, and so on. It's a 10+ yo game, afterall.
But, having so many different kinds of people, who play even more divergent kinds of characters, means you can't expect them to act all the same when moving into ED.
Tolerance is a thing EvE players have to learn the hard way. Respect means understanding freedom of playstyle. It's not "I'm trading lots of goods through 20 systems, I'm harmless, I should be able to block offenders, or CLog". It's "this trading will be very profitable for me, I've calculated the risk/reward and it's worthy, even if I get ganked 1 in 10 times it still pays off in the end". This was one of many possible scenarios, of course many players will have many different stand points. So, there's no "EvE players do this or that in ED", because each one of them thinks and expects different things from this awesome game. But one thing for sure, is that the majority of them probably don't have as much sensitivity issues or game-RealLife limit blurring problems.

 

[Blaize Meduenin]

Last I checked there was a PVE mode and it's called Mobius.

I know what I'm getting into when I play Open, and would not begrude anyone that ones to blast me to smithereens for the fun of it. But everyone flies these 1 billion credit engineered ships and that's why open is terrifying to them.

I just fly junkers and it's more fun that way. No matter what mode.

People keep saying this but its simply not true. Mobius isn't a mode its 3 different private groups with no pve rules in the play, each capped at 20,000 players.

A pve mode would be a mode with pve rules enforced and no player cap so all pve players could play together, the same way all pvp players can play in open together.

 

[Blaize Meduenin]

Why do you people keep bringing this up like it somehow means anything? Of course the pve population far outweighs the pvp population: the pvp population is a subset of the pve population.
There's no need for a mode dedicated to pve considering 99% of the game, even in Open, is pve already.

Not saying pve play is higher than pvp play, as you say thats obvious, this isn't what has been stated.

What has been confirmed is the majority of players don't pvp at all and ONLY play pve, a completely different statement entirely.

 

[Schmack]

Just a quick reminder, this thread isn't supposed to be about Open vs Solo (we have Hotel California for that) or Pirates vs Traders or Gankers vs Victims or PvP vs PvE. It's mostly about invalid arguments.

Regardless what Open was intended to be, we know by now what it is. No one has the right to tell you to play in this or that mode "if you don't like what I'm doing to you", but then trading goods isn't any more profitable in Open than any other mode, so unless you're running about in front of the wolves waiting to be interdicted so you can cry foul, why are you in Open in the 1st place? (not you specifically, but you in general)

 

[Schmack]

^ This. Also, I don't understand Frontier's stead-fast refusal to implement Open PVE. Mobius is getting close to 40,000 members, that should send a message.

Yet I've been in that server dozens of times and never, not once, have I seen another human. 40K registrants /= 40K players. Someone goes there, sees no one, leaves. Maybe never comes back.

Others likely have different experiences.

 

[jasonbarron]

Yet I've been in that server dozens of times and never, not once, have I seen another human. 40K registrants /= 40K players. Someone goes there, sees no one, leaves. Maybe never comes back.

Others likely have different experiences.

I've noticed that, too. Nearly 40,000 users doesn't mean 40,000 unique users. I have a membership and I rarely use it, only to see how player density stacks up against Open.

 

[Deleted member 94277]

But if the best argument is that people should fear no risk, that they should be no carebears, why is it that you always chose to attack the weakest? You only fight if you have nothing to fear, isn't that exactly what you accuse them of?

Alright. I was just browsing the forum to check what's cooking - since I completely abandoned the game for EVE - and I found your post interesting.
It highlights the very reason why, somebody like me, a PvE player that's very bad at PvP, dislikes PvP and overall avoids it like hell abandoned the comfort of solo Elite for the dangers of the PvP hell that's EVE Online: Elite does not know what kind of game it is. Sure, EVE can be frustrating at times, but at least I know where I am. What the game expects of me. And, most importantly, what the players expect of the game. Thinking back, I'm fairly certain that there should be no solo, only persistent, server side open - no P2P - with a more persistent crime & punishment system in Elite. The game would be an amazing MMO with those changes. But ATM, it's a mix between massive MP, single player sandbox and spaceship simulator. And it doesn't work well on all levels, arguably being best as a simulator (which is usually a single player game).
I don't have anything against Elite, don't get me wrong. It's a beautifully realized game, honestly unparalled in terms of spaceship simulation. However, it could be so much more.

 

[Gunnet]

Alright. I was just browsing the forum to check what's cooking - since I completely abandoned the game for EVE - and I found your post interesting.
It highlights the very reason why, somebody like me, a PvE player that's very bad at PvP, dislikes PvP and overall avoids it like hell abandoned the comfort of solo Elite for the dangers of the PvP hell that's EVE Online: Elite does not know what kind of game it is. Sure, EVE can be frustrating at times, but at least I know where I am. What the game expects of me. And, most importantly, what the players expect of the game. Thinking back, I'm fairly certain that there should be no solo, only persistent, server side open - no P2P - with a more persistent crime & punishment system in Elite. The game would be an amazing MMO with those changes. But ATM, it's a mix between massive MP, single player sandbox and spaceship simulator. And it doesn't work well on all levels, arguably being best as a simulator (which is usually a single player game).
I don't have anything against Elite, don't get me wrong. It's a beautifully realized game, honestly unparalled in terms of spaceship simulation. However, it could be so much more.

If it wasn't for solo and group, ED's Kickstarter probably would have failed and there would be no game at all.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

If it wasn't for solo and group, ED's Kickstarter probably would have failed and there would be no game at all.

Rats! Out of rep. Best summation.

 

[EvE4evah]

If it wasn't for solo and group, ED's Kickstarter probably would have failed and there would be no game at all.

While that may be true, doesn't mean that any like-minded group of players has the premier saying or voting in what the game should be. It's not "owned" by specific plaustyles, and nor should it ever be. (Not saying that's what you meant.)

 

[EvE4evah]

Alright. I was just browsing the forum to check what's cooking - since I completely abandoned the game for EVE - and I found your post interesting.
It highlights the very reason why, somebody like me, a PvE player that's very bad at PvP, dislikes PvP and overall avoids it like hell abandoned the comfort of solo Elite for the dangers of the PvP hell that's EVE Online: Elite does not know what kind of game it is. Sure, EVE can be frustrating at times, but at least I know where I am. What the game expects of me. And, most importantly, what the players expect of the game. Thinking back, I'm fairly certain that there should be no solo, only persistent, server side open - no P2P - with a more persistent crime & punishment system in Elite. The game would be an amazing MMO with those changes. But ATM, it's a mix between massive MP, single player sandbox and spaceship simulator. And it doesn't work well on all levels, arguably being best as a simulator (which is usually a single player game).
I don't have anything against Elite, don't get me wrong. It's a beautifully realized game, honestly unparalled in terms of spaceship simulation. However, it could be so much more.

Alright, I'm really sad you've left, I really hope that's temporary, and I completely agree with your last paragraph. ED is awesome, unforgivably beautiful and sweet to play, yet could be so much more.

As someone who's away from EvE for a good 2 years and likely not going back, I have to warn you: just like ED, be prepared for some frustration. It's just different kinds of head-scratching.

 

[Valethar]

I have some pink champagne on ice if we're heading that highway. No wine tho, sorry.

Forums seem to have been cranked up lately. Must be subliminal messaging from the game.

:: Stage whispers :: Thargoids.

[yesnod]

 

[joshman72nd]

ya know i said it once ill say it again if games were anything like the names implied rainbow six siege needs to be a six hour standoff, warthunder sim modes needs barrel physics and non reload times along with unnerfed engine settings for planes and tanks, warthunder needs to be warthunder and have more than just 30 vs 30 box matches and more more inclined to planet side two (not to mention the world war mode), farcry needs to be about a person's crying heard from afar. mechwarrior online needs a story about whats going on and not to mix so many mechs together.

and most importantly of all. elite needs perma death for your commander along with all the get clean exploit's that are still available

 

[Enderby]

It isn't a sandox game. Why do people keep saying this?

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

It isn't a sandox game. Why do people keep saying this?

People's definition/expectation of what a Sandbox game is differ's just as some call this an MMO and justify it via semantics while other will pint to solo and use that to brow beat others...

But to get back on topic as the sandbox argument is another discussion entirely...


Name calling - The thing we all did when we were still at school and yet here we are, mostly grown adults, still calling each other childish names and wanting to put others into a box of things different from ourselves. Quite pathetic really when you think about it.

A huge number of us do it without even realising... But then again it's easy to do when you have other people acting like children in the game, examples of which can be found all over these forums. I also find their behaviour pathetic too.


I have done both of the above because I too am only human.