Anti griefer CG suicide-winder interdiction units...

I seem to recollect that you've been playing the game for quite a while and I also recollect that everyone thought the block feature was only relevant for comms in game until about a year or so ago. I remember seeing the reddit post about demonstrating blocking also affecting instancing becoming famous.
So where did you find this information prior to purchase? Especially as you've just dismissed small print associated with games a few posts up.

The small print would be the the EULA/TOS so you'd be looking in the wrong place for specifics on the workings of an in-game feature, not sure why you think that's relevant.

FDEV spoke about it as a game feature in threads along the lines of "can I opt out of PVP and open". There was a fair bit (ABSOLUTELY LOADS!!!) of wild theory-crafting on such hot-topics of the time so if you want to go back and wade through it all feel free, but it's mostly just noise like open-v-solo-v-group is now.

Not that it matters anymore, I've been sciencing the block function lately and it seems to be fully armed and operational.
 
So go to the interactions tab, block the CMDR in the Sidewinder, carry on? Or preemptively add CMDR <redacted> to your block list?

(it's not naming and shaming if they out themselves in their signature, right? :D)
 
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Something you should have considered before patronizing Valve and using their Steam client.

The odds of them just denying you access on a whim is quite small, but you absolutely did agree to terms to that effect.

I know and if it's an unreasonable reason then it can be argued as against UK trade law "fit for purpose", if something I purchase no longer works then that is not "fit for purpose" is it? Unfortunately for software (and music) it doesn't really degrade over time so unlike physical items can still be used after decades.

The degree of ownership one actually has is the crux of the argument some people seem to use to impose their whims on others.

Stigbob, for example, seems to think that because he paid for access that he can play the game, in Open, and try to carve out his own group by attempting to arbitrarily exclude others with the block list.

Ah the blurry mess that MP has made of an innocent past time, by bringing in the pettiness of the school playground.....sigh.


The EULAs and ToS almost always include clauses that allow them to refuse service at will. No doubt that some of these aren't enforceable in some areas, but many of them are at least as enforceable as banning for cheating.

and those reason will HAVE to be reasonable or they are open to be argued in a court of law. A business cannot be allowed to take someone's money and not provide a product or a service. Otherwise it's an end to consumer rights and seeing as the whole Western economy is based on "consumers" it's important we have rights.



this is all off topic so I'll stop, not really disagreeing with anything TOS and EULAs exist I agree but need to be within just LAW.
 
this is all off topic so I'll stop, not really disagreeing with anything TOS and EULAs exist I agree but need to be within just LAW.

The thing with a video game EULA/TOS is nobody of any consequence cares about them so they've not been legally tested or scrutinized, and games themselves lack the monetary worth to engage the interest of the authorities/courts/lawyers. A UK MP did once ask questions in the house about the broken state of games on release, but IIRC it was never mentioned again.
 
So go to the interactions tab, block the CMDR in the Sidewinder, carry on? Or preemptively add CMDR xxxxx to your block list?

(it's not naming and shaming if they out themselves in their signature, right? :D)

TERRY... who does read the small print?? Amended.

Saying that... having the griefers block me, now that could have some real benefits.
 
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You don't understand why it's an issue because you have some very fundamental misconceptions about what the block feature is doing. Not that I have all the details, but I am aware of the dev statements on the feature and have participated in some hands on testing.

The Block and Friends lists are altering instancing prioritization. Other factors are wings and almost certainly some sort of connection/ping test (details on this are sketchy, but people with large pings to each other or who are nearing the limits of their bandwidth certainly seem to be paired less frequently, other factors being the same). If you block someone and they are in a given instance, matchmaking will try to put you in a different one. If the total weight of the instancing factors in play are strong enough, this can separate friends from instancing with each other, or even split up wings. Gameplay can most certainly be compromised for many people.

I'll give you an example of what happened to me a few weeks back that I strongly suspect was due to two CMDRs blocking me:

My wing and I, which consisted of three CMDRs, two flying exploration Anaconda, plus my own Corvette for overwatch/support were intent on investigating one of the active Thargoid structures. We arrived at the structure, discovering that a pair of Imperial Cutters were already present. They didn't seem hostile, so we proceeded to setup. One of my wingmen moved in to land near the structure while I was investigating in an SLF. At this time the both Cutters opened up on his Anaconda, I switched back to my mothership and moved to engage, but it was too late...thirteen OCed MCs and a huge beam laser made short work of a non-combat fit ship. I covered my second wingman while he moved off fighting the Cutters until it became clear that there wasn't any practical way for me to drive either off without wasting all of my consumables. So, I was forced to jump away.

Since we were still intent on investigating this structure, and one of my wingmen was still on the surface in an SRV, I decided I would leverage my less ammunition dependent setup and faster shield regeneration by conducting hit and run attacks against the Cutters. I attacked, jumped away, immediately jumped back and made a bee line for the structure, then attacked again. I did this five times. On the sixth attempt, instancing failed. The game started putting me in an empty instance, separate from the one my wingmate was still in (which had two hostile Cutters in it). My attempts to communicate with the Cutter CMDRs also failed, suggesting a block.

I strongly suspect that the weight of instancing factors in an instance of three CMDRs whose players were all in relatively close geographical proximity, where one was winged with me, and two had me blocked, was enough, combined with me being overseas, to reliably exclude me from this instance.

Thus, my wingman had to drive his SRV about 20km away to a safe distance and we then had to reinstance, with me deliberately spawning the instance, to be placed together....all because a pair of players decided it was better to block the only ship that could potentially threaten theirs while they went about destroying less robust vessels encroaching on their claim.

Now, some assumption/inferences were made here, but it fits all experimental data on hand and seems to be the most likely scenario.


Anyway, given the way the instancing weight works, its exceedingly easy for this feature to have unintended consequences, or to be deliberately abused. I can think of countless ways to actively disrupt the game for other people with block lists.

Invite the wrong person to an event that requires careful instancing to be successful (PvP league, distant worlds)? One or two people secretly blocking others will waste hours of dozens of peoples time.

Want to win a fight or exclude an escort of a trader? Have everyone in your wing block the best pilot or strongest ship in your enemy's wing and then interdict their weakest member...chances are they will never get that blocked member in the instance.

Want to troll fuel rats? Get to the target in a rat call first and block the rats dispatched. Sure, you could just shoot the target down, and people do occasionally do this, but with block lists you can tie people up much longer and have plausible deniability ("I'll cover you until the ship with fuel gets here").

The possibilities are endless.

Given your explanation, I definitely see how the feature could be abused.

Within your explanation you mentioned jumping in and out of an instance. Is this a common strategy? Is this something that affects a large number of players? Your explanation that it may be a combination of geographic proximity coupled with a mid event block does make sense, but I wonder if it is more than an anecdotal occurrence.

I am completely ignorant of pvp league mechanics. Are you suggesting that a PVP player would block another PVP player within a league to gain a competitive tier placement or avoid fighting one other specific commander? Or is it a team vs. team circumstance where my team does not want to fight one really really good player on your team so we all block him? That does seem problematic for that unique circumstance. The game really does need a legit PVP system with ranking and rewards like so many other mmos.

With a Distant worlds exploration event - is there any kind of competition? What would be the advantage to blocking other players in that event? Do explorers troll each other? It's certainly possible I just have not heard about it.

Exclusion of a trader escort seems plausible. So if I'm in a wing, escorting a trader, nav locked, an unscrupulous commander sees me and says "I want that trader, I will interdict him, I will block that escort player and the trader will be all mine!" Maybe I do not understand how the instancing will play out. Will I be excluded from the navlock interdiction instance since I am blocked by the interdictor, or will the interdictor pop into an empty instance? I don't understand the game mechanics to know what would happen. If the trader is extracted from my wing nav lock, then that is a bad mechanic.

So people actually troll fuel rat calls for help. That is tragic. Do you really need to block a fuel rat to troll them though? Seems like just a new tool to troll them. Hope they never actually need the fuel rats...
 
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The small print would be the the EULA/TOS so you'd be looking in the wrong place for specifics on the workings of an in-game feature, not sure why you think that's relevant.

FDEV spoke about it as a game feature in threads along the lines of "can I opt out of PVP and open". There was a fair bit (ABSOLUTELY LOADS!!!) of wild theory-crafting on such hot-topics of the time so if you want to go back and wade through it all feel free, but it's mostly just noise like open-v-solo-v-group is now.

Not that it matters anymore, I've been sciencing the block function lately and it seems to be fully armed and operational.

You didn't address my question about knowing information prior to purchase. Opting out of PvP was the solo or PG mode, nobody knew blocking was going to do anything except for in game comms (for abuse purposes). You also just admitted to "sciencing" the block function recently; basically as you have become aware of it.
Your replies remind me of brown sauce - suspiciously tangy yet perfect with porky pies.
 
1,200 DPI mouse with a very steady hand (takes practice!)


a mouse? ... Well I know what I'm doing tonight.. attempt MOUSE FLYING (after a few drinks I fear).

hats off to you, think it's the first time I have been inspired to ditch the 52-pro to see if my aim improves

(the sole reason I [cannot] used fixed)... I feel like I'm carrying a tray of full champagne flutes, on a boat, whilst utterly drunk, in a raging storm, being shoved around by other drunk folks - then trying to keep steady enough to aim and hit a target dancing about doing the can-can.

haha.

(sadly cannot rep you again, but thanks for the reply and interesting tipoff) practice indeed!

:D
 
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Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Opting out of PvP was the solo or PG mode....

It could also have been one of the other Open Groups (modes) that the game design allows for - other versions of Open where the rules could be different to accommodate different play-styles (see extract from Dev FAQ post on the forums below):

How does multiplayer work?


We have the concept of “groups”. They can be private groups just of your friends or open groups (that form part of the game) based on the play styles people prefer, and the rules in each can be different. Players will begin in the group “All” but can change groups at will, though it will be possible to be banned from groups due to antisocial behaviour, and you will only meet others in that group.

I'd expect that quite a few players are glad that there is only one Open mode (per platform, of course) - and a consequence of Frontier's desire for us all to want to play in it would seem to be for them to implement features to enable that, i.e. a karma system and a block list.
 
You didn't address my question about knowing information prior to purchase. Opting out of PvP was the solo or PG mode, nobody knew blocking was going to do anything except for in game comms (for abuse purposes). You also just admitted to "sciencing" the block function recently; basically as you have become aware of it.
Your replies remind me of brown sauce - suspiciously tangy yet perfect with porky pies.

Yes I did, the block function was mentioned in threads here in the forum. The threads were about opting out of PVP prior to release autumn 2014 (go read them if you want) I may well have commented in them. It was supposed to block comms and reduce instancing.

I gave up on the block function shortly before the introduction of the station speed limit because it was broken (only the comm block worked) there were also threads here in the forum about that (go read them if you want) I definitely commented in them.

I recently heard in another thread it was now working again which I commented in along the lines "is it really working now" referencing it's earlier broken state. I have since tested it and it is in fact working, the only recent thing were blocking experiments at some CG's.

So personal attacks and your lack of knowledge aside, now I've clued you in on my involvement in the history of the block function do you actually have a point ?.
 
TERRY... who does read the small print?? Amended.

Saying that... having the griefers block me, now that could have some real benefits.

Could you define griefers for me?

Hint - It doesn't mean "people that don't play the way you want them to."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer
And it is often a rule violation to grief in game.
Killing players indiscriminately is playing as intended. There are other modes if you want Elite: Hugbox/SafeSpace.
At this point the carebear (crybaby) community is just name calling because they are mad other people aren't playing the way they want them to.
 
Could you define griefers for me?

Hint - It doesn't mean "people that don't play the way you want them to."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer
And it is often a rule violation to grief in game.
Killing players indiscriminately is playing as intended. There are other modes if you want Elite: Hugbox/SafeSpace.
At this point the carebear (crybaby) community is just name calling because they are mad other people aren't playing the way they want them to.

You appear to have defined it for me.

Tee-hee! I edited it out of my original post too :)

Ta BH. Awfully considerate of you.
 
a mouse? ... Well I know what I'm doing tonight.. attempt MOUSE FLYING (after a few drinks I fear).

hats off to you, think it's the first time I have been inspired to ditch the 52-pro to see if my aim improves

(the sole reason I [cannot] used fixed)... I feel like I'm carrying a tray of full champagne flutes, on a boat, whilst utterly drunk, in a raging storm, being shoved around by other drunk folks - then trying to keep steady enough to aim and hit a target dancing about doing the can-can.

haha.

(sadly cannot rep you again, but thanks for the reply and interesting tipoff) practice indeed!

:D

I fly with mouse. I found a guide, and with that setup and keybinds, it works quite well, I've never been unable to fly in a direction that I wanted to.


Uh, what would happen if you just hung out outside a station in a Suicidewinder, with the best KWS, and just KWSed people as they flew in?
 
Yes I did, the block function was mentioned in threads here in the forum. The threads were about opting out of PVP prior to release autumn 2014 (go read them if you want) I may well have commented in them. It was supposed to block comms and reduce instancing.

I gave up on the block function shortly before the introduction of the station speed limit because it was broken (only the comm block worked) there were also threads here in the forum about that (go read them if you want) I definitely commented in them.

I recently heard in another thread it was now working again which I commented in along the lines "is it really working now" referencing it's earlier broken state. I have since tested it and it is in fact working, the only recent thing were blocking experiments at some CG's.

So personal attacks and your lack of knowledge aside, now I've clued you in on my involvement in the history of the block function do you actually have a point ?.

Complete hogwash.
I've been here since kickstarter and deeply involved with the game via this forum and others. The consensus was that blocking was comms only and it was brought to light by two players demonstrating the feature a year or two ago. I also remember a thread where a dev mentioned it was working as intended, again over a year ago.
My point has been made, everyone can read the thread and make their own conclusion. Pretending you don't know what that point is indicates your ultimate intent here. I can understand why blocking must be important to a person such as yourself.
 
Complete hogwash.
I've been here since kickstarter and deeply involved with the game via this forum and others. The consensus was that blocking was comms only and it was brought to light by two players demonstrating the feature a year or two ago. I also remember a thread where a dev mentioned it was working as intended, again over a year ago.
My point has been made, everyone can read the thread and make their own conclusion. Pretending you don't know what that point is indicates your ultimate intent here. I can understand why blocking must be important to a person such as yourself.

Cobblers the wishful thinking and whiney entitled demands were that it would never effect instancing because of immersion or something equally vacuous, but that was always just noise from the usual suspects and never FDEV policy. The only big important forum "expert" point you've made is that you seem to have confused some of that three year old theory crafting with reality.

The block function finally works as it was always originally supposed to (I know I've tested it), I can and will use it however I like. It's probably best that you learn to live with that, and the fact that I'll be telling people all about it every chance I get since it's a very easy fix to some problems that are as old as the game and isn't being used or talked about as much as it should.
 
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Sandro Sammarco on using the block function to counter griefers in 2014.

Quote begins :

"Hello Commanders!
In this instance, blocking the Commander might prove quite useful.
When you block somebody, a couple of things should happen.
Firstly, you will receive no communications from them.
Secondly, during any transition where matchmaking is at work (so basically, hyperspace jumps, entering and exiting super cruise) you are much less likely to be matched with the blocked Commander.
Blocking becomes weaker when it comes up against friends (and next year, player wings), because if a blocked Commander is in the same session as a friend (say, because they haven't blocked the Commander, the blocking effect is overruled by the friendship matchmaking.
Outside of this case though, blocking should work fine"


Quote ends.

Link as it's to old to be directly quoted : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...rdicted?p=1219313&highlight=BLOCK#post1219313

So much for the consensus that it was never intended to effect instancing or that it's use is somehow against the EULA/TOS/rules, it's use seems in fact to be the go to advice the lead designer gives to players when facing griefers. Like I said I researched my purchase.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Sandro Sammarco said:
Blocking becomes weaker when it comes up against friends (and next year, player wings), because if a blocked Commander is in the same session as a friend (say, because they haven't blocked the Commander, the blocking effect is overruled by the friendship matchmaking.
Outside of this case though, blocking should work fine

Interestingly, the only way that players could initially be blocked was after friending them (and them accepting the friend request) - with friending over-riding blocking (with respect to instancing) it was sort of broken (if the blocking player did not unfriend the blocked player).

With the addition of an in-game block feature where the player only needs to be instanced with the player that they wish to block the apparent effect has changed, even if the functionality has not.

.... and it's all been in the game since before launch....
 
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