Do you have proof this is happening? I was under the impression that you had to have been instanced (albeit briefly) with another player to block them. Just knowing their name isn't enough.
Anti griefer CG suicide-winder interdiction units...
- Thread starter Strangepork
- Start date
Do you have proof this is happening? I was under the impression that you had to have been instanced (albeit briefly) with another player to block them. Just knowing their name isn't enough.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Even if players did engage in pre-emptive blocking, the names of the CMDRs that got blocked would probably be gleaned from posts / videos that appear - crowing and belittling other players - put simply, if players seek to be notorious, they should not expect there to be no consequences for such behaviour.
.... or broadcast in Local (per your following post)....
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Not any that wouldn't run afoul of the naming and shaming policy.
At the last two CGs I've encountered Mr. S and Mr. D the infamous and slightly annoying landing pad miners and missilers, along with a few CMDRs taking advantage of the situation by calling out lists of names for people to block in local. A Mr. D in a Cutter with a Russian/Slavic sounding name was particularly vehement that people should block these two and certain others (some of whom weren't doing anything I'd consider to be illegitimate) and relog/mode switch to be placed in an instance without them...which seemed to be working to some significant degree, and made my own CMDR's escape from the station that much more harrowing.
Starting with the next CG I'll start keeping better video records and use wireshark to dump more detailed networking info than the verbose netlogs contain. Just need to free up a bit more space on my video array.
The consequences are applied to the players for the actions of their CMDRs, are not remotely limited to those blocked, nor is it likely that everyone being blocked is being disruptive.
That's where the abuse comes in. People, in general, have very low standards for proof when it comes to mob justice and there is no way to precisely target the effect of a block so that only the one blocked suffers.
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But, but, but you can't block Mr S and Mr D bringing a bit of colour to the game! The rascals
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Whether they are disruptive or not would seem to be for the player doing the blocking to decide, not those that don't like CMDRs being blocked.
It would seem that Frontier consider that the benefits (to the player-base as a whole) outweigh the downsides - as the recent enhancement to the HUD with the live stream particularly drawing attention to the history tab and the fact that players can be blocked from there would seem to suggest.
It works the other way around too though, a 'disruptive' player can just block anyone actually capable of stopping them, which makes bounty hunting wanted players far less meaningful when they can just block and low wake, now they aren't able to be instanced.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
.... which might lead those players that are preyed on by the players blocking the bounty hunters to friend the bounty hunters - which might leave those being sought by the bounty hunters rather lonely....
I'm really quite confused as to why people think it's ok for me to keep someone I have on my block list out of their instance in a mode that claims to offer a real chance at encountering all other players in the same Open Play mode.
You block me, or vice versa, and not only will we not likely be put together, we won't be placed with in the same instance as each other. If there are two dozen people in my instance, and some of them might have fun interacting with you, what right do I have to impose my arbitrary exclusion on them?
If you had a neighbor who didn't like visitors, would you be ok with that neighbor cordoning off your whole street? Would everyone else on your street be fine with that?
I doubt they've considered all the potential downsides, unless the idea is to gradually dismantle the Open Play mode piecemeal.
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Some players would seem to deserve being blocked.
If instancing was permanent it might be a bigger issue - but it's not - instances join and split as necessary - with players coming and going.
I'd expect that they have considered many - and still consider that the benefits outweigh the downsides.
You have exactly the same right to block whoever you want as they do. Since they do not know who is on your block list and vice-versa, unless you tell them, that they have been potentially blocked from people on your list or you from people on their list is irrelevant since they will not know that.
If there are people with whom they wish to play and not to be blocked then they can be added to a friend list which supersedes any blocked list. If you are then in the instance with someone that is on your blocked list as a result then you have two choices. Live with it or leave the instance.
In the final analysis you and every other player can maintain their blocked and friends list however they choose and if that results in a situation that you do not like, the you still have the same two choices.
In other words, in cases such as you have described which are mutually exclusive, then you just have to decide which of those two choices you wish to make.
As you mention, that's for the individual to decide. I'm saying that no matter what they decide, their decision should not affect those they have not blocked. However, the way the instancing works everyone in an instance shares every exclusion.
If someone doesn't want to play with CMDRs that have French names, or who are flying purple ships, or ships equipped with cannon, so be it...the problem is they carry that arbitrary repulsion aura into any and every instance they themselves can get into.
The impersistence of instances does little to mitigate the downsides. It's exceedingly easy to fill instances with many random people, who will then suffer from someone's block list excluding others.
I'm arguing that I shouldn't, not with the way it currently works.
How am I supposed to meet new people in game if I need everyone on my friends list? Not that I should have to have anyone on my friends list to encounter them. I don't particularly like the idea of my CMDR being tracked around space or most people being notified of my coming and going.
I shouldn't have to actively desire contact with any specific individuals in order to come across them in Open and the idea that I should is completely asinine.
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I very much doubt that most of them are 'suffering'.
We may simply be dealing with a 'needs of the many' situation.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
That assumes that the other players in the instance would suffer, rather than benefit, from the presence of a player that has blocked a player that won't then be instanced with them - both outcomes are possible.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Indeed.
You both have exactly the same "right". How you choose to deal with the results of that in such a mutually exclusive situation, such as you describe, is your choice.
FDev have provided a feature, you may use it or not. If you don't like the way it works or don't feel that you have the "right" to impose your wishes on other players then you do not have to use that feature. This is your choice and also the choice of every other player.
Summary: you don't have to use it if you don't like it.
I'm arguing that the current block list functionality undermines the experience of the many to perpetuate the bigotry of a few.
I have to suffer from your use of it, even if you are not targeting me with it.
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Maybe FD is less worried about a certain romantic vision of what open is, than the ability of their players to find a gaming environment they enjoy. You have to explain to me how choosing to play in Solo, or a PG is any different than Blocking. Open is not a social contract to be available to all players all of the time. It's just a matchmaking option. Open with a Block List is simply saying, I am open to all, except those on my list. It's an Mirror-PG. Instead of playing just with those in the PG, you choose to play with all, less those you have chosen not to play along side.
P.S. A player's friends list has more influence over matchmaking than the block list. Should we abolish all Friends lists because they make you instance with other people friends more often, excluding other new found Commanders from being included in your instances?
P.S. A player's friends list has more influence over matchmaking than the block list. Should we abolish all Friends lists because they make you instance with other people friends more often, excluding other new found Commanders from being included in your instances?
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Hardly! if there were lists of known EveilDoer to subscribe to for the blocking list, I will stop my boycotting of Open and come to Open to play. Those lists could be based on the Karma to be designed and implemented. Kill too many in LHS 3447? You get to be put on a SealClubber list and all new players get automatic subscription to that list, say until they leave 40 Lys radius.
Moreover, if everybody blocks you by some subscription, you will be utterly alone in a popularly voted shadow hell by your lonesome, and your wingmen. Nobody will miss your instance.
The thing is that the griefers worry too much. In theory, player police works fine. But in practice it rarely work out well. Because there is a huge disparity between the EveilDoers and the Cops. The EveilDoers get to choose the time and place for engagement, but the cops have to guard everywhere 24/7. In Elite Dangerous like game with huge number of places at huge distance, it's impossible to guard everywhere and provide timely response. It's like in a dog fight, the guy who got the better power/weight ratio gets to choose the engagement. The fight turns against you? Afterburner out, and come back on a more favorite terms. Moreover, the DveilDoers usually have the deviant determination on their side more than the what the 24/7 guard duty could wear out your average Johnny DoGood.
But, block lists, particularly with subscription and Karma combination, you better pray FDev does not implement this. You could be in popularly voted shadow hell without knowing.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
It could also be argued that it improves the experience of the many by reducing the likelihood of being instanced with the few.
Then don't use it.