Anti griefer CG suicide-winder interdiction units...

[GreyAreaUK]

I'm arguing that the current block list functionality undermines the experience of the many to protect the bigotry of a few.

But you're dictating what the 'experience of the many' should be. And that's wrong.

How about instead of decrying the people doing the blocking, you decry the people exploiting broken game mechanics to behave like disruptive idiots and making people use the block list feature? Because I'll be honest, I'd block those cretins on sight.

 

[Morbad]

It could also be argued that it improves the experience of the many by reducing the likelihood of being instanced with the few.

I don't think the reality of it's function supports that argument very well. It doesn't prevent you from being instanced with the few, it prevents you from being instanced with the few, plus whoever they are instanced with, and in the long run, that is vastly more people.

Then don't use it.

That's not a solution.

You'd have to stop using it on people I may be willing to encounter, or we'd have to block each other...which would be exceedingly hypocritical and counterproductive from my perspective. I may not like you as a person/player, but our CMDRs may get along just fine.

But you're dictating what the 'experience of the many' should be. And that's wrong.

I could easily accuse you of the same thing.

My desire is to be free from the side-effects of the dictates of the few and have the Open experience the game suggests it can provide.

How about instead of decrying the people doing the blocking, you decry the people exploiting broken game mechanics to behave like disruptive idiots and making people use the block list feature? Because I'll be honest, I'd block those cretins on sight.

I don't agree with your implication that abuse of flawed station C&P mechanisms is worse/more disruptive than imposing one's personal block lists on others in the same instance.

The worst case scenario from the former is the loss of a ship and cargo. The best case scenario of the latter is a non-open Open where anyone can exclude anyone else they feel like from any instance I happen to be in.

Mr. S and Mr. D have been enemies of my CMDR for years, I've wasted dozen of hours trying to foil their obnoxious and exploitative antics, and I find them to be annoying as players/people as well. However, those who are too caviler with block lists are infinitely worse, in my opinion.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Y 1 get n0 seals 2 club?

FIXIT FD! NAO!

 

[MarkAusten]

That's not a solution.

It is exactly the solution. You do not get to choose what other players do, only for yourself. You may choose to use this feature or not for yourself only. Other commanders get to make the same choice. Having made the choice you then live with the results. If you find it hypocritical or counterproductive to use it, then don't.

But, let other commanders make that choice for themselves. Block List or Friend list, use them or not as you decide for yourself.

 

[Morbad]

You do not get to choose what other players do, only for yourself.

Yet you are advocating exactly the opposite.

Anyone who uses the block list is deciding who other players, and not just those on said list, can encounter.

Block List or Friend list, use them or not as you decide for yourself.

I don't use the former at all and the later sparingly as I explicitly want to avoid imposing my idea of who is or is not worthy of being in my instance on others.

 

[Mohrgan]

Yet you are advocating exactly the opposite.

Anyone who uses the block list is deciding who other players, and not just those on said list, can encounter.



I don't use the former at all and the later sparingly as I explicitly want to avoid imposing my idea of who is or is not worthy of being in my instance on others.

The Block list is no more powerful than the Friends list. When the two if us instance together your friends list will attract more of your friends into an instance with me, how is that any different than my Block list keeping malcontents from entering?

 

[MarkAusten]

Yet you are advocating exactly the opposite.

Read again. You make the choice for you, other commanders make the choice for themselves and you all live with the results.

Anyone who uses the block list is deciding who other players, and not just those on said list, can encounter.

I don't use the former at all and the later sparingly as I explicitly want to avoid imposing my idea of who is or is not worthy of being in my instance on others.

Anyone who uses the friend list is deciding who other players, and not just those on said list, can encounter.

That's hypocritical.

 

[Morbad]

The Block list is no more powerful than the Friends list. When the two if us instance together your friends list will attract more of your friends into an instance with me, how is that any different than my Block list keeping malcontents from entering?

The friends list has actual utility and functionality beyond manipulating instancing and preferential inclusion is less disruptive than exclusion. Unless a friend also has a block list, bringing them into my instance won't keep others out.

The whole point of an Open mode is inclusiveness, not exclusivity.

Read again. You make the choice for you, other commanders make the choice for themselves and you all live with the results.

As many times as I read it, you are still objectively, factually, incorrect.

 

[MarkAusten]

The friends list has actual utility and functionality beyond manipulating instancing and preferential inclusion is less disruptive than exclusion. Unless a friend also has a block list, bringing them into my instance won't keep others out.

The whole point of an Open mode is inclusiveness, not exclusivity.



As many times as I read it, you are still objectively, factually, incorrect.

I notice you you didn't answer the point about your being hypocritical. You cannot argue the thing both ways.

 

[Mohrgan]

The friends list has actual utility and functionality beyond manipulating instancing and preferential inclusion is less disruptive than exclusion. Unless a friend also has a block list, bringing them into my instance won't keep others out.

The whole point of an Open mode is inclusiveness, not exclusivity.



As many times as I read it, you are still objectively, factually, incorrect.

Your whole point of open is inclusiveness, other people's points may vary. Inclusiveness does not trump individual rights. Just as telling an attacker that they had no reason to jump another player, you cannot make remote judgements on why someone may block another. You simply cannot impose your personal gamer ethics on another player. I won't tell you who you can have on your friends list, and you can't tell me who I can have on a block list. It's just like all of the other game mechanics. They may not suit you, but they have a purpose.

 

[Morbad]

I notice you you didn't answer the point about your being hypocritical. You cannot argue the thing both ways.

I answered the point with my comment about you being factually incorrect.

If your assertion of how the function works has little basis in fact, your accusation of hypocrisy on my part are, perforce, false.

If you want me to quote your segment and provide a completely redundant refutation, I can do that:

Anyone who uses the friend list is deciding who other players, and not just those on said list, can encounter.

That's hypocritical.

To which my reply would be:

The friends list has actual utility and functionality beyond manipulating instancing and preferential inclusion is less disruptive than exclusion. Unless a friend also has a block list, bringing them into my instance won't keep others out.

Inclusiveness does not trump individual rights.

Exclusiveness apparently does, which is my issue with the feature, more especially since it can affect those it's not specifically targeted at.

 

[Mohrgan]

I answered the point with my comment about you being factually incorrect.

If your assertion of how the function works has little basis in fact, your accusation of hypocrisy on my part are, perforce, false.

If you want me to quote your segment and provide a completely redundant refutation, I can do that:


To which my reply would be:

What you do, individually, with any of the games features means nothing to another player. I'm glad you have found the moral position you want to be in, with regards to the Block/Friend lists. But, that has no effect on how others use these features. Your personal gamer ethics have no bearing at all on this discussion.

It is an individual's right to determine whom they spend their play time with. FD have made this clear through words and deeds. What can happen to instancing is not the Blockers responsibility. Your needs do not over right those of another. That's the bottom line.

 

[Morbad]

What you do, individually, with any of the games features means nothing to another player.

This is demonstrably false.

Your needs do not over right those of another. That's the bottom line.

And this is directly contrary to how this feature works.

 

[Mohrgan]

This is demonstrably false.



And this is directly contrary to how this feature works.

So, demonstrate otherwise. Words are cheap.

Not more than the popular Friends does. The Friends list actually overrides the Block list if what Sandro said is still true.

 

[EvE4evah]

You Block brigade guys can argue all you want. Block is currently manipulating instancing, and manipulating instancing in a proposed Open mode is bad. Is all.

 

[Mohrgan]

You Block brigade guys can argue all you want. Block is currently manipulating instancing, and manipulating instancing in a proposed Open mode is bad. Is all.

The Friends list has more ability to manipulate instancing. Should that go?

 

[EvE4evah]

People want to play in Open, but don't want their ships, their "time" and "effort" wasted by somebody who wants to blow up their ships. It's ironically funny.

 

[jasonbarron]

Morbad, I admire your tenacity. But you do realize that you're up against an impenetrable wall, don't you? Until Fdev runs the griefers out of the game this tool is the best thing these people have. To me it's a broken atrocity of a tool that if I had more respect for Fdev's planning and follow through I would suspect of being their Machiavellian way of corrupting Open in order to gradually ruin it in the long run. To most of the people you or I would argue with on this topic, the fact that it ruins instancing for everybody in Open is a PLUS. That's the single biggest key to understand in this debate, as in all Open PvE, flagged PvP, Blocking etc discussions: the attitude that whatever ruins Open and the ability for everybody to play the game the way they see fit is good.

Personally, I don't block anyone on the forum or the game, and my opinion of those who do would probably earn me a moderator enforced time out if I shared it.

 

[MarkAusten]

I answered the point with my comment about you being factually incorrect.

If your assertion of how the function works has little basis in fact, your accusation of hypocrisy on my part are, perforce, false.

Nonsense, you just want it to be factually incorrect.

Fact 1: The Block List tries to ensure that blocked players do not meet in the same instance.
Fact 2: The Friend List tries to ensure that friended players do meet in the same instance.
Fact 3: The Friend List overrules the Block List.
Fact 4: A Block List of one player will affect all commanders in an instance.
Fact 5: A Friend List of one player will affect all commanders in an instance.

Your argument is that Fact 4 makes the use of the block list "exceedingly hypocritical and counterproductive" but your use of the Friend List implies that the Friend List is not "exceedingly hypocritical and counterproductive".

However, Fact 5 is functionality identical to Fact 4 ergo anyone saying that one is "exceedingly hypocritical and counterproductive" but not the other is being hypocritical.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

People want to play in Open, but don't want their ships, their "time" and "effort" wasted by somebody who wants to blow up their ships. It's ironically funny.

Why do you put 'time' in quotes? Do you think this is happening outside of normal time? Same question for 'effort' now I think about it.

And the situation is vastly more complex than the way you've painted it.