General / Off-Topic Join the UK Army - get your legs blown off - then told "We won't treat you anymore"

amigacooke

amigacooke
This looks like a devolution issue to me, the Scottish parliament is responsible for health and social services for those living in Scotland.

'The trust who run the hospital said: “University Hospitals Birmingham NHS Foundation Trust have arranged two more follow-up appointments to determine the effectiveness of Mr Brown’s latest cycle of treatment.

If he needs further treatment within the trust, we would need to seek pre-approved funding from NHS Scotland"'.
 
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Para Handy

Para Handy
amigacooke said:
This looks like a devolution issue to me, the Scottish parliament is responsible for health and social services for those living in Scotland.

'The trust who run the hospital said: “University Hospitals Birmingham NHS Foundation Trust have arranged two more follow-up appointments to determine the effectiveness of Mr Brown’s latest cycle of treatment.

If he needs further treatment within the trust, we would need to seek pre-approved funding from NHS Scotland"'.
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Yes it is but that isn't the issue, that is the result. The UK used to have military hospitals where members of the armed forces could receive specialised treatment - these were abolished and instead military medics were embedded within NHS hospitals and certain specialised units centrallised in specific places. In this case Birmingham - now the guy in question has no right to direct treatment there because the bean-counters have to get their cash from the NHS funds instead of the central government directly funding injured veterans' treatment.

My point is that injured veterans should have their treatment directly funded as it would have been under the military hospitals structure, now we see accountants' views taking precedence over the moral duty that the country owes to these people.
 

amigacooke

amigacooke
MalcYorks said:
My point is that injured veterans should have their treatment directly funded as it would have been under the military hospitals structure, now we see accountants' views taking precedence over the moral duty that the country owes to these people.
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Do you not think this article is written to incite a feeling of outrage? The basic facts appear to be that Mr Brown will continue to be treated, but NHS Scotland will pay rather than an English NHS trust. As Mr Brown lives in Scotland that doesn't seem unreasonable.
 
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FuzzySpider

FuzzySpider
MalcYorks said:
How's this for a real disgrace:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/this-ultimate-slap-face-former-10885724

Guy serves in the Army, blown up in Afghanistan and loses legs - now the only hospital in UK with this kind of wound experience (well done for closing all out military hospitals by the way) says it won't treat him any more since it is in Birmingham and he lives in Scotland.

This makes me so angry.
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Magic money tree?

That's democracy for you. The UK consistently voted for people who explicitly said they'd cut state support. It is no good complaining when they cut state support.
 

Aashenfox

Aashenfox
FuzzySpider said:
Magic money tree?

That's democracy for you. The UK consistently voted for people who explicitly said they'd cut state support. It is no good complaining when they cut state support.
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HEAR HEAR!

The story is of course disgraceful, but the greeks have a great saying (translated) The fish smells from the head. This disgraceful state of affairs for this soldier will be put to right, no doubt, because of the publicity, but it is true that we are reaping what we sowed.
 
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Marak

Marak
amigacooke said:
Do you not think this article is written to incite a feeling of outrage? The basic facts appear to be that Mr Brown will continue to be treated, but NHS Scotland will pay rather than an English NHS trust. As Mr Brown lives in Scotland that doesn't seem unreasonable.
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Totally agree with this. There are mechanisms for Scottish people to be treated by the English NHS and vice versa. As the budgets are seperate treatments are cross charged.

NHS staff are under pressure (from managers, who in turn are under pressure from the Gvt) to strictly adhere to these rules.

I can't believe that NHS Scotland would ever refuse to pay for the treatment for a British army vet.

I would call this a clickbait 'non story'.
 

verminstar

Banned
verminstar
This isnt news, its been a reality fer decades. Take a dander down the main shopping areas in the city and about half of those sleeping rough are ex army vets while the less deserving are given free handouts here there and everywhere. No...this isnt a new phenomenon at all...this is old news that someone is just noticing fer the first time ^
 

beelbeebub

beelbeebub
Cosmo said:
That is awful. There's been too much military budget cuts replaced by welfare programs.
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Whilst the story is a disgrace this has zero to do.with welfare.

Ex service personnel are treated via the NHS so this isn't a MoD budget issue, it's an NHS finding issue.

The UK spends about 1/3 of its spending on welfare about 40% of which goes on people who don't work and expect the state to give them a monthly payment.

Who are these scroungers we should throw off welfare?.....

Pensioners. Their pension payments alone come to around d £100bn a a year. For comparison the NHS budget (of which a significant portion is spent on pensioners) is around £150bn and the defense budget around £45bn.

For comparison the spend on welfare for the unemployed (who I imagine you were thinking about) is 1% of the welfare budget, 0.5% of the overall spend at about £3bn.

But yeah, it's definitely those unemployed welfare recipients that are the root cause of this problem and not underfunding the NHS.....
 

Para Handy

Para Handy
Just to reiterate, my point is not berating NHS spending as such, of course the chap will receive treatment on the NHS - my point is that because of government defence policy, specialist military-oriented medical care is centralised in specific NHS hospitals since all military hospitals were abolished. So the centre that specialised in the care that this chap needs is in England so in my opinion, that care should be centrally-funded from the defence budget. When the military hospitals were closed their "replacements" were embedded units (MDHUs) in NHS hospitals, I direct you to:

"The Ministry of Defence is also responsible for the Royal Centre for Defence Medicine at Queen Elizabeth Hospital (QEH) in Birmingham. MOD Hospital Units cater to service personnel and their dependants but do not treat operational casualties, who are treated at QEH (and formerly at Selly Oak Hospital)." (my emphasis)

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Defence_Hospital_Units)

We treat our veterans dreadfully, compare the USA where veterans can get their little blue tablets that the BB censors out from the military budget.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40741785

[grumpy old man thingie]
 
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Marak

Marak
MalcYorks said:
Just to reiterate, my point is not berating NHS spending as such, of course the chap will receive treatment on the NHS - my point is that because of government defence policy, specialist military-oriented medical care is centralised in specific NHS hospitals since all military hospitals were abolished. So the centre that specialised in the care that this chap needs is in England so in my opinion, that care should be centrally-funded from the defence budget. When the military hospitals were closed their "replacements" were embedded units (MDHUs) in NHS hospitals, I direct you to:

"The Ministry of Defence is also responsible for the Royal Centre for Defence Medicine at Queen Elizabeth Hospital (QEH) in Birmingham. MOD Hospital Units cater to service personnel and their dependants but do not treat operational casualties, who are treated at QEH (and formerly at Selly Oak Hospital)." (my emphasis)

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Defence_Hospital_Units)

We treat our veterans dreadfully, compare the USA where veterans can get their little blue tablets that the BB censors out from the military budget.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40741785

[grumpy old man thingie]
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We can't say on here?


Obviously not - Ok try censoring "little blue pill" :D

And I do berate NHS spending every chance I get - the amount of money that gets wasted on red tape, providing stastistics for the current government, and complying with the demands of every new QANGO that the Gvt sets up is apalling.

So much NHS money is wasted on things that have nothing to do with patient care it's borderline criminal. The sooner the NHS is looked after by an independant body and can't be used as a political football the better.

(haven't had a rant here in ages - rant over :) )
 

Arry

Arry
verminstar said:
This isnt news, its been a reality fer decades. Take a dander down the main shopping areas in the city and about half of those sleeping rough are ex army vets while the less deserving are given free handouts here there and everywhere. No...this isnt a new phenomenon at all...this is old news that someone is just noticing fer the first time ^
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This ^^.

Going on for decades is right. The injured have served their purpose and now should be out of sight and out of mind, as far as the U.K. government is concerned and the real sad thing is: Most of these guys are too proud to make a fuss about the situation they find themselves in.
 

verminstar

Banned
verminstar
Arry said:
This ^^.

Going on for decades is right. The injured have served their purpose and now should be out of sight and out of mind, as far as the U.K. government is concerned and the real sad thing is: Most of these guys are too proud to make a fuss about the situation they find themselves in.
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The real tragedy being that the money and resources are there, but the bean counters always bring up the cost...while those much less deserving are given new houses and bridge loans to furnish them, given cars and huge handouts. Thats why a great many have no love fer the establishment...this is where it starts right here. Its utterly shameful how our veterans are treated in the UK, and every single time it always comes back to money or the lack of. Funny how others who never did a days work in their life seem to have money all but thrown at them ^
 

lysan

lysan
MalcYorks said:
How's this for a real disgrace:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/this-ultimate-slap-face-former-10885724

Guy serves in the Army, blown up in Afghanistan and loses legs - now the only hospital in UK with this kind of wound experience (well done for closing all out military hospitals by the way) says it won't treat him any more since it is in Birmingham and he lives in Scotland.

This makes me so angry.
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This happens everywhere, not only in the UK, in the US too. We are simply not taking care of our vets, the system is rotten to the core.
 

Para Handy

Para Handy
Matter being taken up by Scottish government now:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-40763150

'Scottish Veterans Minister Mr Brown has raised concerns to Mr Ellwood (UK GovMinister) about how information about the funding of Callum Brown's treatment was communicated to him.
He said: "Our injured veterans expect and must be able to receive the best possible healthcare that is available, regardless of where it is delivered.
"They should certainly not be told that their healthcare can no longer be provided at a particular location due to funding arrangements."

He said that both NHS Scotland and NHS England had long-established guidance in place, which sets out who is responsible for the cost of patients' healthcare when they need to cross borders for treatment.
He added: "NHS healthcare providers on both sides of the border should be able to agree funding arrangements between themselves without the need to involve patients in such decisions.
"NHS Ayrshire and Arran - Mr Brown's local NHS board - recognises the brave service given by Mr Brown through his duties in the armed forces and will continue to fund and support Mr Brown's ongoing treatment, be that in Scotland or elsewhere.
"I trust that you will now take any necessary action to remind NHS England of the responsible commissioner arrangements so that there is no repeat of this distressing incident for Mr Brown, or for other veterans who require NHS healthcare after sustaining serious injuries while serving their country."
He added that "no member of the Armed Forces, Service family member or veteran in Scotland should face disadvantage when accessing services and support" '


So the Daily Record's "click bait" (according to someone {now on my ignore list}) has had some effect at least.
 

Marak

Marak
From the BBC:

NHS sources told the BBC Scotland news website that in cases where a patient receiving treatment in England was living in another part of the UK, hospitals had to apply for funding from that country.

A statement from the University Hospitals Birmingham NHS Foundation Trust said it had arranged two more follow-up appointments to "determine the effectiveness of Mr Brown's latest cycle of treatment".
"If he needs further treatment within the trust, we would need to seek pre-approved funding from NHS Scotland," it added.

Dr Alison Graham, medical director at NHS Ayrshire & Arran said the health board was "committed to funding and supporting Mr Brown's ongoing treatment, be that in Scotland or elsewhere".
She added: "We are in discussion with University Hospitals Birmingham NHS Foundation Trust regarding this."
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So it looks like everything is working as it should.
 
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