Lead Designers advice on dealing with griefing (part 2)

[Soliluna]

Looks like the block feature is perfect for you two - and everyone else. You both get to play the game the way you want, both get to experience it the way you want, without having to labour everyone with the petty squabbles of "who's doing it right" and "the way it was intended".

People who couldn't play nice together should block each other, the true intention.

 

[Cosmos]

Looks like the block feature is perfect for you two - and everyone else. You both get to play the game the way you want, both get to experience it the way you want, without having to labour everyone with the petty squabbles of "who's doing it right" and "the way it was intended".

People who couldn't play nice together should block each other, the true intention.

Playing nice in a cutthroat galaxy. M'kay.. Forgive me if I missed the memo but cutting peoples throats is far from being nice.

 

[Xenith]

False advertising isn't legit. If I sell a product that is meant to do a certain thing and it doesn't then thats not the buyers fault its those who miss sell. At this point given what you've said you appear rather transparent.

Tell that to No Man's Sky. The ASA wouldn't do a damned thing about their flagrant false advertising, despite thousands of complaints from disgruntled consumers, and a mountain of documented evidence. So there you go, precedent has been well and truly set, and the ASA have all but given the green light to dodgy advertising.

 

[Cosmos]

Tell that to No Man's Sky. The ASA wouldn't do a damned thing about their flagrant false advertising, despite thousands of complaints from disgruntled consumers, and a mountain of documented evidence. So there you go, precedent has been well and truly set, and the ASA have all but given the green light to dodgy advertising.

Its hard to tell anything to no mans sky because they've had to relocate to a secret location to preserve their safety. The ASA is quite clearly not fit for purpose but I sense this thread is going way off base and since we are only allowed to talk about what Frontier wishes us to talk about I suppose I should end this here.

Happy blocking to one and all..

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Where on their website does it talk about the 'spirit of the game'? All I've ever seen is stuff exploding in vids and mantras such as 'cutthroat galaxy' 'backdrop of raw anarchy' or even 'hunt other commanders', 'infinite freedom', 'play your way'..

Yep - they have definitely used those terms - like from 3 years or so ago.

You and others have obviously taken these terms to a very literal extreme. Here's my take on each of those...

Marketing context...

Context is important, so cast your mind back 3 years - the game's still in Beta, marketing is underway, and Frontier know next to nothing about how to make a multiplayer game, because this is literally their first one. They're under pressure to get the game into a state where it can go out on sale, which means things like crime & consequences get sidelined, which itself has consequences right to this day.

Marketing. David Braben and crew have this very naive picture that the game will be this jolly fun-fest where all players understand their intentions for the game. They know what they're on about, but practically everyone else doesn't. Think "Tee-hee!". Think "Jolly fun, what!". It's so naive it's almost childlike and sweet.

So off they trot to Marketing, with various phrases designed to attract customers.

"cutthroat galaxy" - was supposed to be taken within a context of everyone playing their roles - Explorer, Trader, Pirate, Bounty-Hunter. Pirates were meant to rob from Traders, Bounty-Hunters were meant to hunt Pirates, Explorers naffed off out into the Void and we were all meant to have jolly good fun. Also bear in mind the context of the base game - which is what we're all playing no matter which mode we're in. NPC's, the BGS, etc. That's your "cuthroat galaxy" right there.

"backdrop of raw anarchy" - See above for context. Setting the picture of the base game.

"hunt other commanders" - Pirates were supposed to hunt Traders for loot, Bounty Hunters were supposed to hunt pirates for bounties. Context, man!

"infinite freedom", "play your way" - within the context of FDEV's sweetly jolly view of what they thought the game should be. Besides which, players were always limited in what they can do. No player can Blaze Their Own Trail in this game - there are limits. You can't get those sweet, sweet RNGineering mods you desire without sometimes paying the grind tax. No way around it. So those two catchphrases are blasted from the skies.

Also, can you please show me where Frontier marketed the role of Murderhobo? I've searched everywhere for that 5th touted role - can't seem to find it. Can't seem to find where Frontier have ever actively marketed or encouraged this 'career'.

If you dont like the way other people play the game then thats a valid view. My point is, Frontier have advertised and sold the game in a certain way. Its therefore unfair to demonise how people play it when it doesnt suit the forum hive mind.

Well as I've pointed out above, there is no officially touted role of Murderhobo anywhere in Frontier's marketing. Almost as if they never intended for players to take that role on full time compared to Explorer, Trader, Pirate, and Bounty Hunter, eh? You'd think if folks were being so reliant on Frontier's naive and naff marketing, that lack of a 5th "Murderhobo" role in the same marketing might be, y'know, a hint.

Can you at least not accept my point here?

I've already accepted it. Frontier's marketing was naive to the point of stupidity, considering they killed off the Pirate and Bounty Hunter roles right from the start. Those roles were dead at birth due to the absence of any sensible crime & consequences system.

Still - to this day I still see no officially touted role of "Murderhobo".

 

[Soliluna]

Playing nice in a cutthroat galaxy. M'kay.. Forgive me if I missed the memo but cutting peoples throats is far from being nice.

I wasn't roleplaying, I was talking about the real world. If you can't get along with a real, living person, you shouldn't play with them. This is why the block feature exists.

 

[Xenith]

Its hard to tell anything to no mans sky because they've had to relocate to a secret location to preserve their safety. The ASA is quite clearly not fit for purpose but I sense this thread is going way off base and since we are only allowed to talk about what Frontier wishes us to talk about I suppose I should end this here.

Happy blocking to one and all..

The ASA is likely getting 'donations' from the software development and marketing industries, so of course they're not fit for purpose.

 

[Stealthie]

Playing nice in a cutthroat galaxy. M'kay.. Forgive me if I missed the memo but cutting peoples throats is far from being nice.

You seem to be having a problem differentiating between real life and a video game.

You might want to go and see somebody about that.

 

[Cosmos]

Still - to this day I still see no officially touted role of "Murderhobo".

I see no officially recognised role as being a sitting duck, but people play that way too. Its not our fault folks want to cruise a cutthroat galaxy as fruit and veg delivery drivers and go to artificially created choke points (CGs).

In all these years, I've never had probs, I've even traded in a lemon and out run and out wit those who oppose me. I found it exciting. Frankly all of this whining comes across as a load of old moaning. The geographical area of the game is almost infinite.

You seriously suggesting that no one can move for these alleged 'griefers'.. its utter boulderdash.

 

[Xenith]

I see no officially recognised role as being a sitting duck, but people play that way too. Its not our fault folks want to cruise a cutthroat galaxy as fruit and veg delivery drivers and go to artificially created choke points (CGs).

In all these years, I've never had probs, I've even traded in a lemon and out run and out wit those who oppose me. I found it exciting. Frankly all of this whining comes across as a load of old moaning. The geographical area of the game is almost infinite.

You seriously suggesting that no one can move for these alleged 'griefers'.. its utter boulderdash.

So, just a quick question for you, what would happen if all of the fruit and veg delivery drivers suddenly switched to combat ships and turned to Murderhoboism? Do you think the PvP crowd would like this, and if not, why?

 

[Cosmos]

So, just a quick question for you, what would happen if all of the fruit and veg delivery drivers suddenly switched to combat ships and turned to Murderhoboism? Do you think the PvP crowd would like this, and if not, why?

Trade would continue as per the BGS. We are apparently a small part of all of that.

As for your question... I suppose the game would become less of a meaningless grind and scripted by Frontier and more of an emergent one. The latter, even if I was at the raw end of it would be far more interesting than FDs gameplay grinding lopps.

 

[Xenith]

Trade would continue as per the BGS. We are apparently a small part of all of that.

As for your question... I suppose the game would become less of a meaningless grind and scripted by Frontier and more of an emergent one. The latter, even if I was at the raw end of it would be far more interesting than FDs gameplay grinding lopps.

Yes, it would, in Solo or Private. I mean, if this is what the PvP players want, then I'm sure the traders will be happy to oblige, but I reckon the pirates will be pretty annoyed about it. It would mean the end of their profession, and the beginning of a time where they faced some actual competition.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I see no officially recognised role as being a sitting duck, but people play that way too. Its not our fault folks want to cruise a cutthroat galaxy as fruit and veg delivery drivers and go to artificially created choke points (CGs).

In all these years, I've never had probs, I've even traded in a lemon and out run and out wit those who oppose me. I found it exciting. Frankly all of this whining comes across as a load of old moaning. The geographical area of the game is almost infinite.

You seriously suggesting that no one can move for these alleged 'griefers'.. its utter boulderdash.

So you've basically discounted everything else I said about the marketing, clinging on to it with ragged claws.

Once again - there's no marketed role of Murderhobo - the game gives you no in-game reward for being such. Admittedly the game doesn't punish you for being a murderhobo either, and again that's entirely down to Frontier ignoring crime & consequences since the game was born.

 

[Cosmos]

Yes, it would, in Solo or Private. I mean, if this is what the PvP players want, then I'm sure the traders will be happy to oblige, but I reckon the pirates will be pretty annoyed about it. It would mean the end of their profession, and the beginning of a time where they faced some actual competition.

I just want an interesting gameplay experience that isn't as tediously scripted as it is. As it stands I can only get that from 'interacting' with other players. Since the only way to achieve that is by pwning everything that moves, thats what I'll do.

I'd invite you to look at cmdr tony curtis channel on youtube. If you cant see the humour or merit in that then it would seem we really are light years apart.

 

[Xenith]

Frontier ignoring crime & consequences since the game was born.

Which is a bit of an immersion kill actually, since I very much doubt a real space faring power would permit such activities within its borders, without some kind of active crime and punishment measures.

I just want an interesting gameplay experience that isn't as tediously scripted as it is. As it stands I can only get that from 'interacting' with other players.

You mean killing them, and even that gets boring eventually.

 

[jasonbarron]

I see no officially recognised role as being a sitting duck, but people play that way too. Its not our fault folks want to cruise a cutthroat galaxy as fruit and veg delivery drivers and go to artificially created choke points (CGs).

In all these years, I've never had probs, I've even traded in a lemon and out run and out wit those who oppose me. I found it exciting. Frankly all of this whining comes across as a load of old moaning. The geographical area of the game is almost infinite.

You seriously suggesting that no one can move for these alleged 'griefers'.. its utter boulderdash.

You are as undiplomatic as you are correct. Sitting ducks!

 

[Cosmos]

You mean killing them, and even that gets boring eventually.

Must admit I grew tired of it long ago. I suppose fact of the matter is that Frontier have left folks so few options to have a decent emergent and adversarial game that they find themselves toying with others.

Much of this whole debacle comes down to DB.. In his crusade to combat those 'snot nosed teens' and having used up all the tricks from his sleeve hes ultimately responsible for how people play the game.

But now. hey guys here is a block feature.. Its lazy, same as the mode thing...

But what does he care? With the stock going up he is probably worth 60 mil +

Kaching! And to boot, he cant even hire a staff to pay to mod the forums.. yeah, just wow..

So far from topic now I'll probably get some mod noise..You see how this works now?

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Must admit I grew tired of it long ago. I suppose fact of the matter is that Frontier have left folks so few options to have a decent emergent and adversarial game that they find themselves toying with others.

Much of this whole debacle comes down to DB.. In his crusade to combat those 'snot nosed teens' and having used up all the tricks from his sleeve hes ultimately responsible for how people play the game.

I've repped you for that because we're in complete agreement here.

 

[Xenith]

Must admit I grew tired of it long ago. I suppose fact of the matter is that Frontier have left folks so few options to have a decent emergent and adversarial game that they find themselves toying with others.

Much of this whole debacle comes down to DB.. In his crusade to combat those 'snot nosed teens' and having used up all the tricks from his sleeve hes ultimately responsible for how people play the game.

Well, people can make their own fun with regards to PvP, without having to toy with others. Clan wars for instance, with wings? Where are they, why are combat pilots so afraid of facing each other? The problem with this game, has always been that people only see one way to play it, which is murdering others because you can rather than because it serves a particular purpose. They cannot get creative, and they cannot do anything outside of the established pattern. I suppose FDev could provide some more places for this 'interaction', but like CQC it will probably be quickly abandoned for easier pastures, where the targets die quickly and the weapon-fire only goes in one direction.

 

[Cosmos]

I've repped you for that because we're in complete agreement here.

Gonna rep you too. Point about discussions, in my view, apart from stating our own ideas is to listen to others. Everyone here is passionate about the game. Be a bit boring if we all agreed.

As far as I am concerned folks can use the block function against me as they choose. My only real concern is the general demonisation of a particular plsy style, and how someone blocking me might stop me instancing with others who haven't.

Whilst this has been a robust debate I have enjoyed banging heads a little.. Little by little the truth may come out of it