Engineers Engineered Rail advice?, and an FDL build

[ThriveInDark]

Ok so this will be my 5th or 6th FDL, I never could get a feel for the thing. But last time I flew one you could only get a 5A PP and Engineers didn't exist. I also have changed my controls so I can pitch/roll/yaw/thrust all at the same time (I use an Elite controller), which was not the case before and have noticed I rather like flying the Conda now (minus SC) which I hated before and thought the same might be true for an FDL.

My question is, with engineered Rails, what to choose? On paper I was considering Sturdy+Super Penetrator, or Long Range and Plasmaslug though I'm not sure it has the fuel for this. The loadout is:

1x C4 Gimbal Long Range 4 Beam
2x C2 Gimbal MC (Stuck between RF and LR(Leaning here) here but will use 1 Corrosive 1 Emissive) ((I do not have mats for OC right now))
2x Rails to take pot shots with

Here is the full build. Am I on the right track?

 

[Alexander the Grape]

Go for long range with thermal reduction secondaries. Grade 1 is fine, just make sure you get that secondary thermal load reduction

 

[ThriveInDark]

Go for long range with thermal reduction secondaries. Grade 1 is fine, just make sure you get that secondary thermal load reduction

I take it you mean on the G4 Beam, Thermal Vent? I don't think anything else has that I've got has thermal vent.

 

[Gunnet]

You might find plasma slug a little limiting with the FDL's fuel tank, and its damage reduction is quite punishing. For comparison, the two IHammers on my Cutter burn fuel fast enough that I prefer to carry extra tanks on top of the main 64t tank for CZ/res work. Normal rails of course only use 1/3 the fuel of IHammers, but the FDL's main tank is 1/8 the size of the Cutter's.

Like Alexander said, long range with thermal load reduction secondaries is definitely the way to go.

 

[ThriveInDark]

You might find plasma slug a little limiting with the FDL's fuel tank, and its damage reduction is quite punishing. For comparison, the two IHammers on my Cutter burn fuel fast enough that I prefer to carry extra tanks on top of the main 64t tank for CZ/res work. Normal rails of course only use 1/3 the fuel of IHammers, but the FDL's main tank is 1/8 the size of the Cutter's.

Like Alexander said, long range with thermal load reduction secondaries is definitely the way to go.

Secondary rolls that I'm hoping for you mean? Or secondary weapon effects? Sorry, I have done some engineering but not like min/maxing. So long range and super penetrators sounds like a good combo for the rails then. But looking at the stats, Sturdy increases penetration and decreases thermal load, so that sounds like what you guys are describing also....

 

[Gunnet]

Secondary rolls that I'm hoping for you mean? Or secondary weapon effects? Sorry, I have done some engineering but not like min/maxing. So long range and super penetrators sounds like a good combo for the rails then. But looking at the stats, Sturdy increases penetration and decreases thermal load, so that sounds like what you guys are describing also....

Secondaries are the extra modifiers which appear in the box on the right side of the screen after the main sliders finish rolling. There's a chance of getting a thermal load reduction with any rail blueprint, and it can be quite significant (50% or more).

Super penetrator is different from the penetration increase you get with sturdy. Super penetrator causes the rail to damage every module in the path of the shot, while 'regular' penetration makes weapons suffer less damage reduction against large ships with high hull hardness. The increased penetration from sturdy is completely pointless on rails, since rails have 100 penetration naturally and therefore do full damage against everything.

 

[ThriveInDark]

Secondaries are the extra modifiers which appear in the box on the right side of the screen after the main sliders finish rolling. There's a chance of getting a thermal load reduction with any rail blueprint, and it can be quite significant (50% or more).

Super penetrator is different from the penetration increase you get with sturdy. Super penetrator causes the rail to damage every module in the path of the shot, while 'regular' penetration makes weapons suffer less damage reduction against large ships with high hull hardness. The increased penetration from sturdy is completely pointless on rails, since rails have 100 penetration naturally and therefore do full damage against everything.

Boom, thanks for spelling it for me. Now I will proceed accordingly. Yeah I don't mind the reload speed reduction from Super Penetrator because I'm treating the Beam and MCs as primary (easy gimbal) damage and then lining up shots with the rails as best I can. Is SP worth having? I'd go with a PA but I don't have Bill Turner unlocked yet, sadly.....

 

[jasonbarron]

I take it you mean on the G4 Beam, Thermal Vent? I don't think anything else has that I've got has thermal vent.

No, he's talking about the rails themselves. Roll each one until you get a -50% heat reduction secondary effect, which is different from the special effects which can be applied to any weapon. Rolling until you get that awesome heat reduction "secondary" is obviously going to be a lot easier going for g1 modules than g4 or g5.

 

[ThriveInDark]

No, he's talking about the rails themselves. Roll each one until you get a -50% heat reduction secondary effect, which is different from the special effects which can be applied to any weapon. Rolling until you get that awesome heat reduction "secondary" is obviously going to be a lot easier going for g1 modules than g4 or g5.

I like the efficiency. How about for the MCs if I don't have OC mats at the moment? I was between RF5 or LR5, then planned on 1 corrosive and 1 I dunno what to do with. 3k/s bullets sounds pretty sexy, but RF with the increased reload speed nets almost as much DPM as OC, or so I have read

 

[jasonbarron]

I like the efficiency. How about for the MCs if I don't have OC mats at the moment? I was between RF5 or LR5, then planned on 1 corrosive and 1 I dunno what to do with. 3k/s bullets sounds pretty sexy, but RF with the increased reload speed nets almost as much DPM as OC, or so I have read

At this point I would have to advise going for LR for MC's, too. Nowadays keeping your distance is the new cool

 

[Alexander the Grape]

I like the efficiency. How about for the MCs if I don't have OC mats at the moment? I was between RF5 or LR5, then planned on 1 corrosive and 1 I dunno what to do with. 3k/s bullets sounds pretty sexy, but RF with the increased reload speed nets almost as much DPM as OC, or so I have read

LR isn't usually worth it on gimbals, though I haven't tested it much. OC would probably be preferred but Rapid Fire is good too

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Super penetrator is different from the penetration increase you get with sturdy. Super penetrator causes the rail to damage every module in the path of the shot, while 'regular' penetration makes weapons suffer less damage reduction against large ships with high hull hardness. The increased penetration from sturdy is completely pointless on rails, since rails have 100 penetration naturally and therefore do full damage against everything.

I have a FAS with two rails, both with L4 sturdy. I got the sturdy for the increase in integrity, as my FAS spends most of the time with its shields around its ankles. I've got one with super-penetrator and the other with feedback cascade. I recommend getting feedback cascade, as ships using a SCB get a rude surprise.
I've only used it in PvE so far, but it's a fun build.

 

[ThriveInDark]

LR isn't usually worth it on gimbals, though I haven't tested it much. OC would probably be preferred but Rapid Fire is good too

Well my shields last longer the further I am away, and carrying full damage until max range would be useful. I was worried RF jitter would be a problem with Gimbals.

 

[HeavyGroovez]

Is SP worth having?

Feedback cascade is a lot more useful i find - its become pretty much mandatory on a PvP build to deal with cells.

I have a pair of super pens that i rolled but i switched them out for cascades and never went back to them.

 

[eraktor]

Feedback cascade is a lot more useful i find - its become pretty much mandatory on a PvP build to deal with cells.

I have a pair of super pens that i rolled but i switched them out for cascades and never went back to them.

This. I recently started using Cascade and learnt that they are also very useful in PvE against large NPC ships with SCBs. They can end an otherwise 5 minute fight in less than a minute, if you don't have other weapons suitable for quickly bursting down the enemy's shields.

(Edit: after posting this I started feeling uncertain about the following statement, but I left it in for the sake of conversation. It is very likely false.) Besides, based on my own anecdotal evidence, Super Penetrator divides the damage between all modules it hits, rather than dealing its full damage to each, which makes it situationally worse for sniping a specific module. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) Of course it means you can hit the intended sub-target from any angle if there's another module in the way, but it can also potentially increase your time-to-kill even if you score a direct hit, if there's something behind it.

 

[ThriveInDark]

This. I recently started using Cascade and learnt that they are also very useful in PvE against large NPC ships with SCBs. They can end an otherwise 5 minute fight in less than a minute, if you don't have other weapons suitable for quickly bursting down the enemy's shields.

Besides, based on my own anecdotal evidence, Super Penetrator divides the damage between all modules it hits, rather than dealing its full damage to each, which makes it situationally worse for sniping a specific module. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) Of course it means you can hit the intended sub-target from any angle if there's another module in the way, but it can also potentially increase your time-to-kill even if you score a direct hit, if there's something behind it.

That's interesting, and if it does work that way a bit misleading of the descrption text. Doesn't say anything about dmg reduction/dividing between mods/falloff

[FONT=&quot]Experimental munitions that are capable of penetrating and damaging all modules along its trajectory, at the cost of increased reload times.

[/FONT]

 

[eraktor]

That's interesting, and if it does work that way a bit misleading of the descrption text. Doesn't say anything about dmg reduction/dividing between mods/falloff
[/FONT][/COLOR]

I edited my post with a disclaimer that the statement is just what I believe based on my experience, and I can not prove it behaves like that.

Edit: Making a fool of myself here. The more I think about it, the less reasonable it seems. Note to self: Don't make statements based on assumptions I have used SuperPen railguns myself before, but their damage did not for some reason feel consistent to me, leading to me believing they functioned in a different way than they actually do.

 

[ThriveInDark]

I edited my post with a disclaimer that the statement is just what I believe based on my experience, and I can not prove it behaves like that.

Edit: Making a fool of myself here. The more I think about it, the less reasonable it seems. Note to self: Don't make statements based on assumptions I have used SuperPen railguns myself before, but their damage did not for some reason feel consistent to me, leading to me believing they functioned in a different way than they actually do.

Odd, was it the decreased reload speed? Because actually, feedback cascade and plasmaslug both suffer the same 20% dmg reduction, SuperPens don't take any reduction. That's why I was actually leaning that way on paper. I'll grab one of each and see what happens probably.