Black Hand Update: The Klingon / Romulan Cloaking Device (or Angels only play in Solo/Private)

[Sorrell]

Well, well, well......it has been over 6 months since hostilities boiled over into open warfare between the Black Hand and the Angels. We had a lot of fun in the early days, but now, we in the Black Hand really must protest!

Even though AD has expanded into Jaaka and made it a control system, our space is deserted! We only see Black Hand CMDRs and the odd visitor, no one else......

Yet we see attacks on our systems, and CMDRs like 'Princess Aisling' on our top 5 bounties! Where are you???

Our playerbase is in open revolt because it is getting so BORING! We are off fighting wars elsewhere at least to get some human interaction apart from us. I can't believe I was even trading rares for the recent Harma CG, it's getting that g bad! Anything except grinding BGS against unscrupulous CMDRs using the 'banned' Klingon / Romulan Cloaking Device!

As you keep saying, you have rallied all the AD players to your side (well done by the way, we did think everyone realised our area was an uneconomic backwater with no benefit for Aisling, so you did wrong foot us there, ). On the upside, you should have enough manpower behind you now......hence.....

Come on guys, are you really operating out of pure hatred so you want to defeat us in solo/private or whatever? Get out in Open, let's interact, if you fly with you rebuy, then should be no stress. If you want to make an arrangement that we don't go beyond 10% hull, then that's cool as well. (Anyway, I heard that we are crap at PvP, so you guys should be ok?). I want the thrill of running a blockade against a station, hiding in a gravity well from a group of assassins, massacring our enemies, running away with tail between legs, inevitable rebuy screen. This is what makes this game so great. Elite is..a very good game....but a little content challenged, (well a little strong but you know what I mean) so we have to provide our own!

You've expanded into a crap system, Jaaka. You are doing something with the BGS around there, we are a little confused what your aim is but no biggy. E.g. we have forced you to retreat from Kulaye and Praavapri (you'll probably say you didn't want them) yet we have all our systems. I was even hoping you would retreat us in some crap ones but no, no, no, I really have to put my hand up and say I have no clue what your strategy is, if there is one, apart from dislodging us as a control faction in systems.

And to round up......

Cry 'Havoc!' and let slip the dogs of war! It is definitely more fun to hurl insults at each other while we do this.

We are currently renaming all our ships to 'Angels only Fly in Solo'. Do please come and prove us wrong.

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

Yes, this is the most boring war i've ever seen
I have seen one of the Top 5 Bounty cmdrs in our systems ONCE in open and as soon as i've interdicted him, he maybe realised his mistake and has pulled the Plug. The Aisling's Angels and AD-BGS troopers were well known for frequent combat logging but know they hide permanently in Solo/Private group.
I wish Frontier maybe realises at a certain Point, that Solo/PG players should not be allowed to have any influence on BGS or Powerplay overall! They are massacring our police and we can just watch and do nothing. There is just no way to prevent this actions.

Sunday morning, a beautiful sunshine but yet our cities burn. Even that the sky is clear and nobody can be seen, our cities get hit by fallign bombs. Just imagine how WW2 would have looked this way
Most of us don't even bother anymore what they are doing. There is no point in fighting ghosts. These 2 groups claim to fly most time in open, yet you can sit the complete weekend in Chona or Zhao without meeting someone ever! Yet the traffic shows around 1500 ships per 24h. Shameful!

Appeal at Frontier Devs: sort this finally out and please set every influence changes done in private to 0% If someone wants to fight us, he should fight us!

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Where's my popcorn?

 

[Notwyn]

Hotel California that way...

 

[rrobes]

We reap what we sow, players seethe at the mention of Open.

However, if two or more factions wish to duke it out, ti should be no holds barred unless you prearrange conditions.

It should be if you come into our systems, catch us if you can and vice-versa, bottoms kicked all-around.

The biggest problem is that the advantage goes to the aggressor, the aggressor knows where/when/how the attack is going, the defenders, unless they have intel, won't respond in time. Then there is instancing which can play havoc, so it's hide and seek.

It's almost better to prearrange the conflicts to ensure that both sides are on the same stage, otherwise it's bumbling around in the dark, catch one here, get caught there. Random encounters of destruction w/ one-party consent is what causes the vitriol to flow, here the OP is lamenting the lack of conflict even between two warring parties.

Everyone that is interested in PvP wars between factions/wings should maybe start evolving towards a more intelligent/planned way to play, leaders of the groups should have diplomatic channels set up for comms in peace and war, use them to stage conflicts, wing A wants system B, wings C says not so fast, then both sides decide to do patrols-in-strength in the contested system and escalates/de-escalates from there, then it's winner takes the system or a peace is negotiated.

Just sayin'...

 

[JosiahD]

Yes, this is the most boring war i've ever seen
I have seen one of the Top 5 Bounty cmdrs in our systems ONCE in open and as soon as i've interdicted him, he maybe realised his mistake and has pulled the Plug. The Aisling's Angels and AD-BGS troopers were well known for frequent combat logging but know they hide permanently in Solo/Private group.
I wish Frontier maybe realises at a certain Point, that Solo/PG players should not be allowed to have any influence on BGS or Powerplay overall! They are massacring our police and we can just watch and do nothing. There is just no way to prevent this actions.

Sunday morning, a beautiful sunshine but yet our cities burn. Even that the sky is clear and nobody can be seen, our cities get hit by fallign bombs. Just imagine how WW2 would have looked this way
Most of us don't even bother anymore what they are doing. There is no point in fighting ghosts. These 2 groups claim to fly most time in open, yet you can sit the complete weekend in Chona or Zhao without meeting someone ever! Yet the traffic shows around 1500 ships per 24h. Shameful!

Appeal at Frontier Devs: sort this finally out and please set every influence changes done in private to 0% If someone wants to fight us, he should fight us!

Completely disagree. The 'modes' are what they are - deal with it.

Are you sure you're simply not seeing your opponents because of matchmaking? Even in open, preference is given to friends is it not, so maybe the matchmaking gods are simply matching you with your friends and them with theirs, more often than not? Couple that with playing in different timezones (which impacts on latency and therefore also on matchmaking) and of course seeing others in open can't be relied on. That said, they could indeed be in private or solo, but just because you're not seeing them in open doesn't automatically mean this is the case across the board.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

LERN TO BGS dumbos. your mistakes as i see it; assuming open is PvP mode (its not, never was meant to be, which is why the BGS operates as it does) so combat is the least efficient way to deal with your problem. open was supposed to be PvE with player interaction occasionally resulting in combat. not combat pvp mode mega deathmatch.

remember also; even in open, you wont be instanced with every single player on the other side.
you cant be instanced with them if one of the groups offline asleep when the other is online (timezone tragedy!).
just killing ships doing undermining ISNT combatting undermining. its killing a few of the ships working the BGS. and if YOU dont have anyone working the BGS, then you will lose even if you kill anything you see - because you can never be instanced with all the ships even if they are all in open.

 

[Omega Fighter]

From the start it has been stated that all 3 mods are equal ways to play the game, it is absurd that you complain that somebody does not play the game the way YOU want it.

 

[Bottom Hat]

Nothing to do with me, but as Josiah has suggested - would it not be due to matchmaking of instances and so on? I have to say that though, as I am sure that no openly PvP faction who has declared a war, would be shameful enough to retreat from Open?!

Either way, would it not be useful for each of the 'bosses' of both sides in this conflict, to share a small list of the names of all of their members, so that each of the other faction can befriend all of its members? Doing that would ensure that matchmaking worked, and that there could no longer be any value to suggesting that the other side are cowardly cowards, looking like chickens with big yellow bellies?!

So, share a list of each other's pilots, the and each of them as a friend, whether you hate them or not. That way nobody can knowingly hide in a private mode from the others enemies. It is why you became PvP legends, and why then began a [fake??] war between yourselves? Not trying to be mean, but certainly trying to wind you all up so you fight more!!

Have fun folks, but don't go to Solo if you declare you are a PvP player; it devalues every other player who wants to avoid you as well....

Cheers dudes,
The Hat



PS: Agreed with Omega and Yoda above me, absolutely spot on guys.

 

[Sorrell]

Completely disagree. The 'modes' are what they are - deal with it.

Are you sure you're simply not seeing your opponents because of matchmaking? Even in open, preference is given to friends is it not, so maybe the matchmaking gods are simply matching you with your friends and them with theirs, more often than not? Couple that with playing in different timezones (which impacts on latency and therefore also on matchmaking) and of course seeing others in open can't be relied on. That said, they could indeed be in private or solo, but just because you're not seeing them in open doesn't automatically mean this is the case across the board.

Nah, do not agree completely, last time I saw an Angel in open was in a war in T'u Tu, when they want to come out, we do see them, but unfortunately those instances are few and far between, I think T'u Tu was about 3 months ago......Everywhere else, we see people, anyway, let's see if any of them answer......

Life is about risk, why shouldn't Elite be as well, play the game properly. If there are griefers, then gang up and deal with them. I love the thrill of escaping in a trade/mission ship. Most of my ships would get ripped to shreds if I met someone with a PvP load out, I wouldn't even try to fight. PvE and PvP doesn't really mix and I am not going to set up my stock ships on the off chance I might meet someone with a PvP load out. And remember, there ain't no solo or private in real life, you need to deal with whatever comes your way. You win some, you lose some, that's life, sometimes sucks, sometimes g brilliant!

Probably a bit extreme not to allow Solo/Private to affect the universe, but some rebalancing needs to be done, if only to incentivise people getting back into open.

 

[Sorrell]

Nothing to do with me, but as Josiah has suggested - would it not be due to matchmaking of instances and so on? I have to say that though, as I am sure that no openly PvP faction who has declared a war, would be shameful enough to retreat from Open?!

Either way, would it not be useful for each of the 'bosses' of both sides in this conflict, to share a small list of the names of all of their members, so that each of the other faction can befriend all of its members? Doing that would ensure that matchmaking worked, and that there could no longer be any value to suggesting that the other side are cowardly cowards, looking like chickens with big yellow bellies?!

So, share a list of each other's pilots, the and each of them as a friend, whether you hate them or not. That way nobody can knowingly hide in a private mode from the others enemies. It is why you became PvP legends, and why then began a [fake??] war between yourselves? Not trying to be mean, but certainly trying to wind you all up so you fight more!!

Have fun folks, but don't go to Solo if you declare you are a PvP player; it devalues every other player who wants to avoid you as well....

Cheers dudes,
The Hat



PS: Agreed with Omega and Yoda above me, absolutely spot on guys.

Yes, I do agree that all modes should be valid ways to play, just seems a tad unfair with our current situation. I like your suggestion but the hostilities between us are such that we apparently have the whole AD player base against us, that would be a lot of friends! lol

The problem is that it forces one to play the game in a way we wouldn't really enjoy. Exploiting exploits and the like, etc., etc.

But I will reiterate, when we started, there was no problem in instancing and meeting them. And we have no problems instancing and meeting others when fighting elsewhere.

This post was done as a last ditch forlorn hope that some of them might creep into open occasionally. We are more than happy to lose the war in open rather than win in Solo/Private.

 

[thirstyfish]

If they don't want to play in open, they don't have to. And you can't force them. I know I wouldn't play in open because someone made a forum post. Why should anyone do what you want? Because you said so? No thanks.

 

[Gunnet]

All modes are equal and valid. If you want a faction war between two groups which adhere to an open-only principle, I'd suggest finding a suitable opponent rather than badgering people about their mode choices.

Plus, if you try to win a BGS war through direct PvP you're going to lose even if everybody is playing in open.

 

[EValve]

LERN TO BGS dumbo

Spoiler

s. your mistakes as i see it; assuming open is PvP mode (its not, never was meant to be, which is why the BGS operates as it does) so combat is the least efficient way to deal with your problem.

open was supposed to be PvE with player interaction occasionally resulting in combat. not combat pvp mode mega deathmatch.

Spoiler

remember also; even in open, you wont be instanced with every single player on the other side.
you cant be instanced with them if one of the groups offline asleep when the other is online (timezone tragedy!).
just killing ships doing undermining ISNT combatting undermining. its killing a few of the ships working the BGS. and if YOU dont have anyone working the BGS, then you will lose even if you kill anything you see - because you can never be instanced with all the ships even if they are all in open.

Except it doesn't, unless you pre-arrange, plan, have the favor of the instancing gods and choose the right instance host for stability.
Making the entire point moot.

On top of which, what he's suggesting does not equal to whatever ridiculous comparison you've set it up to.

The dude's set up his entire story, has been playing the BGS for a while, and gets faced by the fact he simply gets outplayed by GHOSTS.
How on earth do you equate this to "combat pvp modem ega deathmatch". Seriously, how... :S

 

[Archduke]

Combat is destroyed.It#s all down to skill at min/maxing and patience until godrolls with RNGineers. Any joystick skill is utterly outweighed by number crunching and tuning making the entire PvP elements somewhat redundant, given far greater #victory# conditions can be achieved through economics and mission running rather than decent piloting.

 

[Demascus]

Hmmmmm, must be a slow news day...

 

[iFred]

lol
another hotel california reservation

 

[PulsarShark]

The Aisling's Angels and AD-BGS troopers were well known for frequent combat logging but know they hide permanently in Solo/Private group.

Do you want to talk about combat-logging? Do I have your permission to talk about combat-logging?

 

[Verdigris]

One interesting theme that I see here is "people should be allowed to play how they want". That's correct. They should.

This said, the BGS is PvP. It is players working towards a goal against a different group of players working counter to that goal. PvP isn't restricted to combat.

When you have a group of players looking for full, immersive conflict in Open, they cannot play the way they choose if the group working against them chooses to play partial conflict predominantly in Private/Solo. The truth is, there's no true solution within E that allows everyone to play the way they want so long as the same BGS is impacted by all three modes of play.

Just an observation. Everyone stating that players should be allowed to play how they want is correct. We all pay for the game. We all deserve to play and have enjoyment from the game. Including those who play in Open, but are being denied that play due to other groups playing their way. This is a flaw in FDev's design, not a flaw in the actions of players.

 

[PulsarShark]

I'd like to show everybody what really happens when Angels and Black Hand meet in Open, but the naming&shaming policy prevents me from just dumping my videos in here.

If anyone wants to see, PM me and I'll reply with some links.