Mining: Pointless, until you get to bigger ships, and *Ideas*

[Teh Smoo]

I briefly tried mining in an Adder when I started. It went about as well as you might expect. Not talking about combat, just the sheer annoyance of it. This is aside from the combat of it, with small ships able to be swatted much faster than larger miners.

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Limpets:
An Adder has no space for large amounts of limpets, which can be suicidal, and are only better than trying to scoop manually. And scooping manually is fiddly, annoying, and even slower. A large miner can carry 100+ limpets (and NEEDS to carry that many!). If a mining Adder loses a couple limpets, they're basically done and need to go drop off.

• Reusable. Have limpets be reusable, with fuel as a limiter.
• Smart launchers. Replace all limpet controllers with "smart" limpet controllers, that can be type-chosen in the modules menu. So it's buried a few levels deep, not useful in combat, but that shouldn't really matter, you'd go in with hatch-breakers anyway. Bonus: now anyone can do refueling! SLOWLY refuels limpets (perhaps only while scooping)
• Limpet refuelers, for larger ships with more limpets. So instead of spamming controllers, you'd take a controller, fuel tanks, and a refueler.
• Immune to collisions (or at least not have them die outright). If they can't avoid objects (asteroids/debris), they shouldn't get instagibbed by an asteroid/debris-piece they NEED to operate near.
• Faster/better pathing. Less limpets, but they work better.
• Limpets should ignore materials when at the 1000/1000 limit. Srsly.
• This would also mean that limpets targeted on a single object would grab it and waste a bit of fuel, instead of just self-destructing.

This way, a larger ship still has way more limpets, but had to float around more slowly, while a smaller ship can more a bit faster, but has less limpets. Instead of carrying a cargo hold half full of limpets, you carry as many as you need.

Prospectors would fly back at double-speed instead of just suiciding. Same as refueling (and eventually repair) limpets, and I guess hatch-breakers too. Collector limpets would need some way to tell them to return. Any limpets outside the ship when it jumps off are still lost.

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Refineries:

• ORE BAN FUNCTION. While a larger refinery requires occasional management, a smaller miner has to constantly vent stuff, which is annoying busywork. A refinery should be able to auto-vent any undesired resources, AND REMEMBER THEM FOR NEXT TIME. And a new player who wants to mine cannot afford, or fit, a 10-bin refinery, they have to make do with 3-4 bins.

This helps mining in general, as larger ships will grab more things, but smaller miners will probably cherry-pick and not even prospect. Continually venting junk bins is not fun gameplay.

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This way, large ships operate very similar to the way they do now. A little quality-of-life with the refineries, and only having to carry a few limpets, instead of continually spitting out more.

Small ships, though, actually become usable miners. Sure, maybe they only have a couple collectors, no prospector, and can only afford to grab a few Painite, Platinum, and Palladium, but they would work. Then when they're full, they leave the limpets in the belt, and go sell.

 

[Madrax573]

Around the limit issues.

I kinda like that the limpets have different controller modules. Otherwise you will just get combat fitted ships that go out mining. While I like general purpose jack of all trades ships you should still have to make choices about the role you are fitting for at any one time. But I'd like the size of limpet control to have a separate cargo capacity for limpets eg. a class 3B collector is 8t in mass and can control 2 limpets so I'd like to see it have a capacity of say 4t for limpets only. Then if you want extra you can stack them in your cargo.

You do know that the limpets will just keep collecting everything until they run out don't you. Make sure you fire them off without targeting the fragments themselves and they will collect many times more rock than they take up in the cargo.

Along with the auto dumping of certain materials in the refinery I'd like the option of telling the limpets themselves to collect only certain materials. The material handling in the refinery can definitely do with some QoL tweaks.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Small ships can be quite capable mining ships. I've often used an Adder for mining missions when they want a small amount of a particular commodity. I have a Vulture permanently setup for mining materials and parked near a reliable source of tungsten. The only ships smaller than an Anaconda that I haven't tried mining in are the Type-7 and the Cobra MkIV.

You need a different approach to mining in a small ship compared to a larger one.

• MATERIAL BAN FUNCTION.

I suggest you correct your terminology. You aren't referring to materials at all. What you mean is "Ore ban function". Materials are the micro-resources such as carbon, chromium or zirconium, which could definitely do with some filtering occasionally. Ore filtering would indeed be handy, but I suspect the refinery bin management is exactly the sort of gameplay that FD wants to have as part of mining. It's easy enough to manage, and a skill that new players need to learn.

 

[Teh Smoo]

Around the limit issues.

I kinda like that the limpets have different controller modules. Otherwise you will just get combat fitted ships that go out mining. While I like general purpose jack of all trades ships you should still have to make choices about the role you are fitting for at any one time. But I'd like the size of limpet control to have a separate cargo capacity for limpets eg. a class 3B collector is 8t in mass and can control 2 limpets so I'd like to see it have a capacity of say 4t for limpets only. Then if you want extra you can stack them in your cargo.

You do know that the limpets will just keep collecting everything until they run out don't you. Make sure you fire them off without targeting the fragments themselves and they will collect many times more rock than they take up in the cargo.

Along with the auto dumping of certain materials in the refinery I'd like the option of telling the limpets themselves to collect only certain materials. The material handling in the refinery can definitely do with some QoL tweaks.

Combat fitted ships mining? Good luck in the HazRes with mining lasers fit, I guess. Not to mention combat with a large amount of cargo racks instead of whatever else. I don't think that would really be an issue. More like someone would take ONE limpet controller for hatch breakers, and then switch it over to collector after a successful pirate-type encounter.

Or someone could be using collector limpets to grab stuff, and refuel someone, or get a take-cargo mission and use them as hatch beakers.

And yes, I know quite well how they work now, and how to finesse them so they don't suicide nearly as much. With reusable limpets, accidentally targeting something and having a limpet do a one-off wouldn't be a 101-credit mistake and having to remember to grab more.

And yeah, material handling in general is pretty crap. I'd really like to see materials storage of 20 or 30 per item/data, and have it just ignore excess. Except for FSD boosts, I'd really like to pre-craft those and apply them a lot more smoothly.

@Limoncello Lizard Oh, right, oops.

I'd guess a Cobra4 would do it pretty well, with all those optionals, but I'll never know.

I disagree about the small ships being very capable, though. Maybe if you can A-rate the entire build, but for someone who just buys their first Adder, and can't even afford the SMALL stuff at A-rating? I tried mining with 3 bins, it required way too much micro-management of the refinery venting.

Anything can mine materials, though. I do like driving the SRV enough to do that on planets, though. A large reason that I hit 1000 so fast.

 

[Madrax573]

The small ships can be quite capable little miners. And lets be honest if you can't A rate a small ship the amount you can get from selective mining in a very basic small ship will be pretty decent for your level.

The Cobra IV is the quintessential small ship miner. Internals for days and good capacity as well.

If I'm honest I quite often go into RES site of all types and mine a bit. And have regularly BH'ed in general duties fits with loads of cargo racks etc. PVE isn't that hard in ED. I don't have any problem with a multi limpet controller thing but not a one stop shop for limpets.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

I disagree about the small ships being very capable, though. Maybe if you can A-rate the entire build, but for someone who just buys their first Adder, and can't even afford the SMALL stuff at A-rating? I tried mining with 3 bins, it required way too much micro-management of the refinery venting.

Anything can mine materials, though. I do like driving the SRV enough to do that on planets, though. A large reason that I hit 1000 so fast.

When I mean mining for materials, I mean mining in planetary rings, but without a refinery. Metal-rich rings have a huge drop rate for materials, and if you know which rings to look in you can get materials such as arsenic faster than SUV prospecting.

If you have only a few bins, it's usually best to vent the refinery between roids. It only takes two or three good roids to fill an adder. You can also fill the bins to 100% for extra storage.
Here's an Adder for 500K that would be a pretty good mining ship.

 

[Lestat]

Remember people. Smaller ships have small spaces and are limited to what they do. Because they are cheap.

Also Remember the Older Generation of Elite players Mine with no Limpets and was quite good at it.

 

[Madrax573]

Remember people. Smaller ships have small spaces and are limited to what they do. Because they are cheap.

Also Remember the Older Generation of Elite players Mine with no Limpets and was quite good at it.

Aw nuts!! I'm an older generation now?!?!?!?

 

[Teh Smoo]

The small ships can be quite capable little miners. And lets be honest if you can't A rate a small ship the amount you can get from selective mining in a very basic small ship will be pretty decent for your level.

The Cobra IV is the quintessential small ship miner. Internals for days and good capacity as well.

If I'm honest I quite often go into RES site of all types and mine a bit. And have regularly BH'ed in general duties fits with loads of cargo racks etc. PVE isn't that hard in ED. I don't have any problem with a multi limpet controller thing but not a one stop shop for limpets.

CobraIV is invalid for general use/comparison for any newer players, as it is locked for people who didn't get in fast enough.

But... what do you mean about being OK with multi but not one-stop-shop? They're all fairly similar, collectors are heaviest in an odd way, at least if the wiki spreadsheet is accurate. Perhaps if power draw can be modified in space? Might be an entirely new function, there. I think a lot of those could be pushed into a single mass/power list without too much trouble.

Maybe "industrial" limpets, for collecting/prospecting/fuel/repair, and "military" limpets for hatch breaking and hopefully something else eventually?


This isn't about "is it possible" though, or about how pro the more experienced players are. Newer players are in smaller, non-A-rated ships. They try mining, and it's obnoxious refinery micro-managing, scooping that they aren't very accomplished in, and suicidal limpets that hit asteroids and even self-destruct if you do something crazy like target a fragment.

Having to take along a few limpets and spares would make sense, but currently you need something like a hold half (or more) full of limpets, because they are so expendable, depending on how you prospect and how often you lose collector flights.

And profit per "level" is silly. I made WAY more doing missions than I ever approached when mining in an Adder, faster, and with less risk.

 

[Madrax573]

Yeah I admit that the Cobra IV is a bit of a weird one. I do hope they release it for everyone.

And yes the rewards for mining should IMO be brought up a bit more but remember that 'level' is purely a subjective thing in ED. I was perfectly happy when I used to mine a bit in my adder and sidey.
Then I got a better ship and I could mine more....and get more money....it's an increasing curve of cash making as you get more experience and skill and better equipment.

IMO with the ability to make money so easily in ED now I think other activities could be nerfed pretty easily without too much impact on the whole.

 

[vampireuk]

Mining itself needs looking at and buffing, I have a Type 9 currently set up for cargo running with the mining equipment stored away at a station as mining makes you a lot less money than just running cargo missions and filling the rest of the hold with commodities.