Stragist police feedback... Surrender option please!

[Guest 161958]

Hi,

The police killed more than 30 innocent passengers because they found a wanted passenger in my cabin.

Let me surrender instead of ruthlessly killing everyone onboard!

Punish me by not letting me benefit from insurance!

But all those poor people who were only going to work...

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I had an illegal passenger the other day, mixed in with loads of legal ones.

Local security were quite content with trying to vaporise everyone onboard to get to that 1 passenger.
We don't even know why they're wanted. For all we know, it's unpaid parking tickets.

Lol

To be honest, the passenger stuff needs work, but it's all a lot of work anyway.
But that'd involve things like security forcing you to come to a halt, soft docking, then boarding your ship to take them off.
So we'd need ship to ship docking for that, and so on. It would be cool, but not likely to happen any time soon.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[Allchemyst]

Well, they could demand that you stop and abandon the offending mission, thus causing the offender to leave in their escape pod.

It's what happens now when VIPs are too unsatisfied anyway.

Won't be the first time people complain about this game's murder police...

 

[maudibe]

I like the idea that the criminal tries to do a runner in a pod...and gets vaporised. Meanwhile you are given a fine and told to be on your way. That sort of programming should be simple enough - if 'this', then 'that' type of thing.

Of course,if YOU do a runner then it is all on your head - perhaps the criminal offers you vast sums of money..... edited to add.... you have 3 minutes to make a decision to hand him over or run.....

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Your cowardly betrayal should lose you a lot of reputation with the faction that contracted you.

 

[Lestat]

See when you accepted the mission did it not say Passenger might be wanted in some Factions? So those lives died because you took the risk. Those lives lost due to you accepting a risky mission.

 

[Allchemyst]

See when you accepted the mission did it not say Passenger might be wanted in some Factions? So those lives died because you took the risk. Those lives lost due to you accepting a risky mission.

Nope, those lives were lost because the police forces would rather murder 30 innocents than let a criminal escape. What is it with you and desperately wanting the police to behave like the worst hysterical fascistic delirium to ever curse the face of the world?

Your cowardly betrayal should lose you a lot of reputation with the faction that contracted you.

Abso-bloody-lutely.

Althought, not necessarily every faction would openly support their criminal elements, I'd wager. It's always somewhat puzzled me that every single individual in the galaxy is affiliated to at least some local power... Surely, some powers don't "want" those criminals in their midst.

 

[Lestat]

Nope, those lives were lost because the police forces would rather murder 30 innocents than let a criminal escape. What is it with you and desperately wanting the police to behave like the worst hysterical fascistic delirium to ever curse the face of the world?

Who took the mission? Who knew of the risk of that mission? The Pilot. So the fault lies with the Pilot. Not the police.

We also have to remember there a lot of old west type rules in Elite Dangerous not the rules of today.. It not like every system populated and have police that are trained by a large government. Some of the system could be a group of people that found a place to live and a way to make a living and hired a few Pilots to protect them and call them police. Even if they did not have Police training at a government. Kinda like the Old West. So they made their own rules.

 

[Allchemyst]

Who took the mission? Who knew of the risk of that mission? The Pilot. So the fault lies with the Pilot. Not the police.

Not when innocent passengers, who have absolutely no idea who else is embarking, are also on the ship. Stop pretending the situation is so morally simple.

We also have to remember there a lot of old west type rules in Elite Dangerous not the rules of today.. It not like every system populated and have police that are trained by a large government. Some of the system could be a group of people that found a place to live and a way to make a living and hired a few Pilots to protect them and call them police. Even if they did not have Police training at a government. Kinda like the Old West. So they made their own rules.

Good, finally an articulate argument. You're getting better!

Now that being said : That "not all systems" have a police force trained by a large government is not an excuse for every single cop in the galaxy to behave like a murderer by default.


Would it be interesting for different systems to have different police protocols, with some being very merciful and others being essentially a totalitarian army? Yes!


Is it a good thing that (for now) all systems have police that is - way worse - than the wild west and actually behave like a trigger-happy totalitarian army? NO!


You see, instead of telling the OP that's it's all on them and all their fault, you could advocate for the game to present a diversified set of police AI that vary depending on the system, probably linked to the system's political structure. That'd be a lot more constructive.

 

[Yure]

RP wise it makes sense. Thousands of people live in those stations. If it is a known terrorist, it is a necessary evil.

 

[Allchemyst]

RP wise it makes sense. Thousands of people live in those stations. If it is a known terrorist, it is a necessary evil.

Terrorist or not, given that the galaxy works under a certain rule of law - and especially if there are innocent passengers on board - the police's main goal should be to bring the offender to justice.

There already is a way to get a passenger to "eject" themselves in a special pod, they either do it themselves when they are too unhappy, or when we drop the mission that concerns them.

A system where the police let you stop and drop the criminal's pod straight into their hands would make a lot more sense, RP-wise. Unless we want to believe the policemen in ED are all strictly hired from the ranks of the Klingon Empire...

 

[Lestat]

I think one thing you are blind to is you are only looking at your own country and base your fact on. Then you talk about Government and the Police. Which your country might be good at all of those. But you are ignoring the other 195 countries with Government and their police. Also not all police act like your country police. Some countries Police use military tactics to deal with crime which also means civilians are in the cross fire. Just like the innocent passengers the op complaining about. So it depends on the country and how there police are run.

Now we also have look at the game and think in the future and how governments and police has change over time. Some for the good other are bad. We can also have to look at generation ships and how much change being alone for so long going to point a to b. It could change their government and how police would act.

We also have to factor in Both Cop and Pilots have weapon on Elite Dangerous. It not like the 21 century. The cop Assumes 99% people they pulls over in cars or people on the streets dose not have a weapon. I don't have my hyundai sonata fitted with weapons or missiles. Even the planes we fly today don't have weapons. It regulated. While Elite dangerous it the wild wild west feeling. Different government and police have different rules because it different time. I think some people need to start looking at the differences between today and the Elite Dangerous years.

But back to the game. The Op still took a KNOWN risk harboring a criminal. The Op Knew this and accepted the risk. It which endangered lives innocent passengers It also worth a lot of money. It Risk vs Reward right? It not called No risk vs Reward. To eject a criminal.

If you want the high risk and reward Op then deal with the risk.

 

[Yure]

Terrorist or not, given that the galaxy works under a certain rule of law - and especially if there are innocent passengers on board - the police's main goal should be to bring the offender to justice.

There already is a way to get a passenger to "eject" themselves in a special pod, they either do it themselves when they are too unhappy, or when we drop the mission that concerns them.

A system where the police let you stop and drop the criminal's pod straight into their hands would make a lot more sense, RP-wise. Unless we want to believe the policemen in ED are all strictly hired from the ranks of the Klingon Empire...

Sorry, bud. Rule of law might be exactly that. Protect the innocent from a known terrorist. It's like how some countries will shoot down a plane if it's hijacked and they determine it is going to a more populated location.

In game our ships bounce off the walls of the stations, but in reality a ship crashing into the back wall would cause critical or major damage. Major damage in a space station would cause more deaths than a ship full of passengers. While morally reprehensible, it is the best course of action.

 

[Allchemyst]

Sorry, bud. Rule of law might be exactly that. Protect the innocent from a known terrorist. It's like how some countries will shoot down a plane if it's hijacked and they determine it is going to a more populated location.

In game our ships bounce off the walls of the stations, but in reality a ship crashing into the back wall would cause critical or major damage. Major damage in a space station would cause more deaths than a ship full of passengers. While morally reprehensible, it is the best course of action.

... And both the most credible option and best compromise would still be what I proposed to Lestat : Diversify the police's AI response depending on what system you're in, with some taking a more modern approach and others giving nobody a single chance.

Why should the police response be the same in a booming anarchic market economy and in a dictatorship in a state of war? Having the whole of the galaxy go hippie may not be the best option, okay... But for every single system known to mankind to enforce "morally reprehensible" lawkeeping because their political class believes it is the "best course of action" is unthinkable.

I can't see why that wouldn't be the best of both worlds.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

I'd give up Allchemyst. Some players would rather defend the current placeholder mechanics than have a rich and varied game.

 

[Allchemyst]

I'd give up Allchemyst. Some players would rather defend the current placeholder mechanics than have a rich and varied game.

Would be a wiser decision, nerves-wise... But I'd rather not see this kind of proposition go completely undefended. There's a moment we're arguing more for the eyes of the eventual dev than whatever "opponent" is haunting the thread anyway...

Still, sometimes, it's worth it : Of all my clashes with Lestat, this thread's the first time the debate produced a new idea. Everything has a beginning, like they say.

 

[Lestat]

I think I would rather have Frontier work on passenger missions stories. vs a I don't die feature. Which make the game too easy and lame. I think they could advance the stories so you can go ya he a criminal here, here and here. But the real story is he escaped slavery or running away from a system dealing with a holocaust. Both would be Criminals in those system. In other system they would be free.

We also have to account for other passengers reactions and what do they believe. Do the other passengers believe the Criminals are they people who truly trying to escape but are deem criminals in that system and feel for them and given a chance at freedom. Or do they side with the Government of that system believe they are Criminals and should be ejected from the ship.

Then add in a risk or reward feature. If you eject the passengers to save your other passengers. Your other Passengers might believe the Criminal should be saved and you lose rep and maybe lose all the passenger mission. Or the other Passengers might go well he a Criminal in this system let them deal with it eject them.

Or take the risk of running and you escape and all the passengers deem you a type of hero and maybe gain a bonus.

Another idea when you start ejecting the criminals they might offer something random. Your not told what it is but it could be a type of lotto so you have to choice save the Criminal and risk all the lives of the ship for lotto or eject them.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

You have a very strange view of development if you think that fixing the gameplay in one part of the game has any slowdown effect at all on development of another part. Is this really your justification for attempting to justify all the disappointing parts of the game?

 

[Allchemyst]

You have a very strange view of development if you think that fixing the gameplay in one part of the game has any slowdown effect at all on development of another part. Is this really your justification for attempting to justify all the disappointing parts of the game?

Precisely.

There are litterally over a hundred people working on this game - And in even a semi-professional environment, multiple parts of the same program can be iterated upon without issue.

 

[Guest 161958]

And both the most credible option and best compromise would still be what I proposed to Lestat : Diversify the police's AI response depending on what system you're in, with some taking a more modern approach and others giving nobody a single chance.

Why should the police response be the same in a booming anarchic market economy and in a dictatorship in a state of war? Having the whole of the galaxy go hippie may not be the best option, okay... But for every single system known to mankind to enforce "morally reprehensible" lawkeeping because their political class believes it is the "best course of action" is unthinkable.

I can't see why that wouldn't be the best of both worlds.

I believe this is the best generic idea sparked by my thread.

I would like to point out I am not complaining, I am simply pointing out it did not feel immersive but reductive.