Star Citizen Thread v6

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You're actually on to something there. An interesting something If I may say so...


Skyrim and Witcher were indeed both made by long and steady companies alright...

Companies with established studios, equipped offices with hardware, experienced manpower and funding out of the bat.
Dev's who had been working together god know's for how many years doing the same style of game for many many iterations.
Their success is the culmination of decades of hard work and experience doing things again and again.

Skyrim
and Witcher 3 came from established franchises, with lore, assets, engines tailored to do massive world RPG.
They were literally the culmination of more than 10 years of prior work and experience.
Even with all the previous know how, established studios, corporate funding and hundreds of experienced staff they still took about 5 years to make with multiple delays...

By now it should be clear where I'm getting at, but there's more...

These are single-player games we are talking about, Star Citizen is being developed as a MMORPG...

How much time Elder Scrolls Online development took with an established studio, franchise, funding and hundreds of experience devs right of the bat? Seven years... 7 years of development witch ofc multiple delays...

Doesn't that put in perspective the massive undertaking that CIG is doing here?

Starting completely from scratch? No established studios, no known franchise, no funding, no staff....Making a Single Player campaign with Hollywood level's of production that ties a Space opera story into a Massive Online Universe for millions of players to play together AT the same time...
WHILE simultaneously providing weekly detailed video-updates of it's development, monthly reports and showcasing the strides in development with live played demo's in special events.

Yeah it's a massive undertaking that nobody in their wildest dreams could believe possible, but Chris Roberts, CIG and us backers are making it so.

This ended up being a bit of a rant but it's not about "spreading gospel" or "luring backers", I don't care if you don't pledge for Star Citizen or ask for refunds.

If you ask me or any other supporter of Star Citizen if you should buy it now we will say to wait until 3.0 and try a Free-Fly Week, or if it's a polished experience to wait a couple of more years. There's no malice here, just a strange difficulty in comprehend what seems a "blind hate" towards Star Citizen and CIG when they are doing something so extraordinary while being out in the open embracing the line of fire.



What can I say, People have the strangest hobbies.



But I am being critical and analytical... I've pointed out multiple flaws in arguments that have no point in being (mini map - 8 players instances, Star Citizen = VR Game just recently).

I provide sources as much as possible while explaining things as thoroughly as I can within my English language limitations.

What "people"?What are they "incredulous" about? What "issues"?

- Delays?
- Changes?
- Refactoring's?


Why Is it that hard to understand that these are integral part of EVERY game in development?

Just because CIG open's up it's schedule report's doesn't mean it's immune to the inherent problems and difficulties of game development.
These are estimates directly from the source, not set dates as clearly explained by cig:

Can you point to other game who's going for the kind of Macro>Micro scope with detailed playable characters where you can go from planet to space seamlessly back and forth in a living breathing universe using procedural generation tech together with highly detailed handcrafted items to produce a large universe?

No need to search because there's only one demo shown to public that came "close", and that was the tech engine demo of BeyondGood And Evil 2: A game from a established multi-million dollar publisher, with established teams, offices and experience.

BGE2 has been reported to be in development back in 2007 and has no release date as of yet. The demo showed very little to nothing of gameplay, not "gameplay loop" whatsoever, but it did showcased the technology they have been working on. Food for thought.


Kotaku does a lot of interesting pieces about game development who I think provide an excellent public service to the gaming community.
Some more worth sharing and pertinent to the thread:

- http://kotaku.com/why-video-games-are-delayed-so-often-1795473828
- http://kotaku.com/five-things-i-didn-t-get-about-making-video-games-unti-1687510871
- http://kotaku.com/crunch-time-why-game-developers-work-such-insane-hours-1704744577

Good one from Vice: https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/4w33ed/why-its-so-hard-to-make-a-video-game





10 min's in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLZAXXejrNw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ3rLc16gXw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPBAcwP1rlU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_zP2_nAnUA

Chaotic so it's best to just pay attention to the radar to count the dots.



You can’t really mean that. Don't see how they are even comparable.



So... does my Squadron42 t-shirt, Aegis Mousepad and SC Cap fall under macrotransactions or DLC category?



Yes, focus increased in making highly detailed playable areas instead of spreading thin content into a barren universe.
Stretch goals stopped at the 65$million dollar mark, so that's ~90$millions ago.
We've known since 2014 that procedural tech was a thing for Star Citizen as it was part of a Stretch goal. The German Office came online in 2015 and some months later they demoed a planetary landing and the opening of scope of Star Citizen, it was suddent 2 years ago.
Making the foundations takes time, large map, physics grids, networking, assets, animations etc etc, rushing it out the door won't make it a better game.



That’s exactly how I see it!

By the gods... talk about delusion of grandeur.
I really hope that whatever happens you'll not regret the money spent on SC.
 
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No one ever talked about original time table, which obviously was a fluke.

Way CIG conduct development is reason why we are highly skeptical. 5 years for first full playable prototype of gameloop is hard sell for anyone who knows anything game development.
 
Your wish is granted...

Remaining Aims for 3.0.0 Release

Rotating and Orbiting Planets
We are very keen to make the Stanton map feel more organic as a real environment and having the planets rotate and orbit will really help with this.
This will also introduce a proper day/night cycle when you’re on a planet surface which in turn opens up further gameplay possibilities.


...just added to the "3.0 Production Schedule Report", latest edition.

"Aims"

"We are very keen"

Same language Forrest Stephan used when introducing the Q&A on planetary landings, "this is the direction"
 
Well both forum / reddit posters represent just the tiny vocal part of any game community (only about 5%~10%).
The Salt/Hype Rollercoaster is part of open development as the most passionate fans become frustrated when there's nothing new to play. Usually that frustration comes from their exacerbated passion for the game and the eagerness to play new stuff. It's a normal occurrence in gaming community's. Just not necessarily the overall feeling of all the players who own/play the game.

5-10% is a significant portion of a community, a market or a tasty steak pie.

There are more unhappy folks expressing discontent on Spectrum and Reddit about the current state of the Star Citizen enterprise than there are:

People playing it
People streaming it
People watching it being streamed

...COMBINED, and by several orders of magnitude.

"Eagerness to play NEW stuff" is inaccurate, disingenuous and not representative of the complaints.

Nowhere can I find "an overall feeling of the players who own/play the game" - where are they?
 
5-10% is a significant portion of a community, a market or a tasty steak pie.

There are more unhappy folks expressing discontent on Spectrum and Reddit about the current state of the Star Citizen enterprise than there are:

People playing it
People streaming it
People watching it being streamed

...COMBINED, and by several orders of magnitude.

"Eagerness to play NEW stuff" is inaccurate, disingenuous and not representative of the complaints.

Nowhere can I find "an overall feeling of the players who own/play the game" - where are they?

Couldn't have summed it up better. Spot on [up]
 
*This is an old post that unfortunately had to be taken down because it addressed Star Citizen's Kickstarter and Crowdfunding campaign and not the game.
I'm re-posting to address some personal reply's and useful info that got lost in the process. Hope it's ok for the Mod team. If not sorry for the trouble and feel free to erase this one too.



Well both forum / reddit posters represent just the tiny vocal part of any game community (only about 5%~10%).
The Salt/Hype Rollercoaster is part of open development as the most passionate fans become frustrated when there's nothing new to play. Usually that frustration comes from their exacerbated passion for the game and the eagerness to play new stuff. It's a normal occurrence in gaming community's. Just not necessarily the overall feeling of all the players who own/play the game.



Well there was some uproar about the silence during delays before so it's cool to see CIG address that with special segments. It's a nice way to break it down to the general gamer why delays happen and how easy it is to run into stuff impossible to predict when you are developing new tech.



I've posted multiple videos with 16 players some posts's back, you should find them by searching my recent post history.



If you would have watched more than the first minutes and skimmed through the video you would notice that people all hop in their ship's after saluting, travel millions of km's and fight for an abandoned space station. Some eject and EVA into the station, other's go 4 or 5 inside the same ship clowncar ride style and are dropped in the station vicinity's and they fight out for the control of said station.

I think there's plenty of gamepl loop and features displayed in that video...
In one segment: Space Legs, Dogfighting, Multicrew, EVA, FPS, Space Travel all seamless without a loading screen.



Planetary landings have been a thing since 2015, what "now" as been the focus is populating said planetary locations with as MUCH content as possible.
Planetary landings on procedural generated planets are old new's by now. And actually are not seen in a good light by the overall gaming community because they are associated with uninteresting, barren and repetitive content.

It's about making it interesting after you landed on the planet, that's the hard part and requires a lot of resources. After all the best PG planets are made in Space Engine and that's made by one guy right? It's making a fun game in said PG planets that's hard.

Hi. Sorry, i can't find those vids you posted. I did a search through your post history, but it shows a summary of the post, so its easy to not see. Can you point me to the right post or repost please?
 
Well there was some uproar about the silence during delays before so it's cool to see CIG address that with special segments. It's a nice way to break it down to the general gamer why delays happen and how easy it is to run into stuff impossible to predict when you are developing new tech.

The weekly development schedule was introduced to address the issue of "silence during delays", there has NOT been an uproar which this new segment was created to address.

There hasn't been any information posted or talked about regarding what this new segment's content is, please enlighten me how you know that its content is about "explaining why delays happen to the general gamer."

Also +1 on the requests for you 8v8 videos, I'd like to save the links to them. Thanks :)
 
Also +1 on the requests for you 8v8 videos, I'd like to save the links to them. Thanks :)

I'm going to cripple one of my rigs down to one 1080 monitor, enable this Shadowplay thingie, and see if I can find some players for everyones amusement, and another rig setup with Relive that will be doing log capture from the first rig - for all those people saying that text files are far too easy to manipulate.

It's probably a pointless exercise - but something fun might happen!
 
Planetary landings have been a thing since 2015, what "now" as been the focus is populating said planetary locations with as MUCH content as possible.
Planetary landings on procedural generated planets are old new's by now. And actually are not seen in a good light by the overall gaming community because they are associated with uninteresting, barren and repetitive content.

It's about making it interesting after you landed on the planet, that's the hard part and requires a lot of resources. After all the best PG planets are made in Space Engine and that's made by one guy right? It's making a fun game in said PG planets that's hard.

Planetary landings were announced as an upcoming feature on Dec 16 2015, one day after Elite Horizons launch. Planets were not described as being procgen back then but rather procedural landscaping tools were being used.

Then in May 2016 Sean Tracy describes the planets as being generated from a seed - classic procgen, with handcrafted POIs.

You say the focus is NOW on populating the planets, I say Sean Tracy told us that was the focus 14 months ago and NOW, as of August 2017 with the latest dev update, we are told that the "direction" is orbiting rotating planets with day and night cycles.

We've went from:
Handcrafted planets
to Procgen planets with handcrafted areas
to Orbiting rotating systems

since Dec 2015.

Having watched a fair amount of SC streamers (before they quit streaming SC), the phrase "uninteresting, barren, repetitive content" seems a better fit for SC than it does for any other game I've played using PG. Since the 1980s.
 
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I'm going to cripple one of my rigs down to one 1080 monitor, enable this Shadowplay thingie, and see if I can find some players for everyones amusement, and another rig setup with Relive that will be doing log capture from the first rig - for all those people saying that text files are far too easy to manipulate.

It's probably a pointless exercise - but something fun might happen!

Thank you!

Sounds hilarious...

edit - if you capture the logs that would be gold
 
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Thank you!

Sounds hilarious...

edit - if you capture the logs that would be gold

Having said that - video capture of the the logs would be a right pain to sanitise - so I'm dropping that idea, sorry.

The rest of the plan is still ongoing and I'm current in-game in the PU, Crusader, USA server.

At a whopping 26FPS.
 
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Having said that - video capture of the the logs would be a right pain to sanitise - so I'm dropping that idea, sorry.

The rest of the plan is still ongoing and I'm current in-game in the PU, Crusader, USA server.

At a whopping 26FPS.

Have the logs open and point out anything noteworthy when folks join and leave

This is exciting
 
5-10% is a significant portion of a community, a market or a tasty steak pie.

There are more unhappy folks expressing discontent on Spectrum and Reddit about the current state of the Star Citizen enterprise than there are:

People playing it
People streaming it
People watching it being streamed

...COMBINED, and by several orders of magnitude.

"Eagerness to play NEW stuff" is inaccurate, disingenuous and not representative of the complaints.

Nowhere can I find "an overall feeling of the players who own/play the game" - where are they?

I like you
 
Well both forum / reddit posters represent just the tiny vocal part of any game community (only about 5%~10%).
The Salt/Hype Rollercoaster is part of open development as the most passionate fans become frustrated when there's nothing new to play. Usually that frustration comes from their exacerbated passion for the game and the eagerness to play new stuff. It's a normal occurrence in gaming community's. Just not necessarily the overall feeling of all the players who own/play the game.

Hi John :),
Only a tiny portion of the backers are actually playing the game... Last time I checked, leaderboards only had about 20,000 people. Out of a few hundred thousand / 1.6 million backers depending on who you believe.

One thing that some people seem to forget is that alphas are incomplete and buggy, but Alpha does not mean bad. I've played other alphas that have been an absolute joy, limited but already feeling and sounding really good. By contrast, SC alpha 0.8 ranks as one of the top 3 worst gaming experiences I have ever had, although it has vastly improved since then, to mediocre. I played the ED alphas and betas for a good couple of hundred hours, but have only spent about 2 hours with the SC alphas in the last 3 years

I wonder how you would rate SC if the release had the same flight mechanics and audio, but with other gameplay added.

On a more positive note, I watched a live steam of someone playing SC a week or so ago, and saw a fair amount to like.
First person EVA looked cool. The streamer had borrowed a buccaneer, and that got pretty beat up during a mission. Not only did the damage persist, but it was repaired by cool little drones in a special repair bay.
 
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Meh - with all the crashes and generally far-too-complicated setup, this is going nowhere fast.

It might be easier to actually stream this instead of recording or fiddling with screenshots and mspaint, if only I knew how to stream :D

I did end up in a turrent on some random ship which then took off, and after rotating around for a bit I ended up back in my Commando Cube :(
 
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