Engineers Best weapons for a stealth DBS

[FIGRIN]

What a joy it is sifting through all of the detailed information and research everyone has done around this game!

I've learned so much when working on my stealth build--the pro's and cons of different power plants, thrusters, clean vs. dirty drive, etc. etc.

One thing I just haven't been able to find is much information on stealth weapons. I'm really keen on the idea of using railguns, and see lots of (old) videos of people using imperial hammers in silent running. After doing my first test with normal rails, it seems as though they aren't going to be viable for use in silent running. But I'm wondering what you all think?

Really, I'd like a loadout that hits hard and fast. Doesn't necessarily need to be sustainable for a long battle. Could missiles be an an alternative to rails? Or would those also generate a ton of heat?

 

[goemon]

1. if you fire on a ship, you are always resolved as long as you fire. there is no use to engage running silent while firing, but directly before or after that

2. you might want to look into frags. highest short-time dps. sneak up close, fire frags, leave auto-resolve distance, sneak up again

3. mines or torpedos with reverberating special to destroy shields, cannons to shoot out powerplants.

4. or railguns, maybe even longrange.

5. missiles ... i doubt you can get enough total damage out of 2 small and 2 medium ammo racks, even engineered, to get down shields and hull - pvp; pve a missile boat is fun to fly.

...

 

[FIGRIN]

That's all solid advice, thanks.

I saw mention of the issue about firing in silent running but I guess I selectively tuned it out.

 

[eraktor]

Efficient multi-cannons can actually be fired for quite a while in Silent Running. Fragment Cannons are indeed great for burst damage, but their heat output is significantly higher compared to multies, and you'd likely not be able to sustain SR. Missiles are even worse.

Here's my test footage from a prior beta, relevant engineer mods used were Low Emissions PP, Clean Drives, and grade 5 Efficient Multi-Cannons (the latter were rolled for best possible result)

[video=youtube;CnrjH7j_Fqk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnrjH7j_Fqk[/video]

 

[eraktor]

According to coriolis, Cannons have slightly lower heat-per-second than Multi-Cannons. A good efficient modification on them could be even better for both sustainability AND hitting power. Be wary of Incendiary experimental effect, that adds a lot of thermal load.

 

[FIGRIN]

It sounds like being able to fire in SR is irrelevant though, since it resolves your signature? What would the benefit be of being able to fire in SR?

 

[goemon]

What would the benefit be of being able to fire in SR?

not having to engage or disengage SR constantly, which also has a time till it kicks in.

 

[eraktor]

It sounds like being able to fire in SR is irrelevant though, since it resolves your signature? What would the benefit be of being able to fire in SR?

Not having to manually toggle it all the time. It might be more useful with slower ROF weapons. I believe there's a short delay before your signature vanishes, when you enable SR. I'm not sure whether it's longer than the resolution while firing. I wasn't aware of this mechanic, but reviewing more recent PvP footage by other CMDRs confirms that.

After changes to AI behaviour in 2.3, in PvE, Silent Running effectively reduces the AI ships' accuracy with gimballed and turreted weapons specifically. It does not seem to affect their ability to target you, and they will still be accurate with fixed weapons, since you are not "invisible". I have tested this and the behaviour is consistent, as far as it is possible to test with the AI. I didn't however test it while firing. The previous footage is from an older version when AI was mostly unaffected by SR.

 

[Axilleas]

What a joy it is sifting through all of the detailed information and research everyone has done around this game!

I've learned so much when working on my stealth build--the pro's and cons of different power plants, thrusters, clean vs. dirty drive, etc. etc.

One thing I just haven't been able to find is much information on stealth weapons. I'm really keen on the idea of using railguns, and see lots of (old) videos of people using imperial hammers in silent running. After doing my first test with normal rails, it seems as though they aren't going to be viable for use in silent running. But I'm wondering what you all think?

Really, I'd like a loadout that hits hard and fast. Doesn't necessarily need to be sustainable for a long battle. Could missiles be an an alternative to rails? Or would those also generate a ton of heat?

Try C2 Rails w/G5 Sturdy. Drops the heat generation pretty big.

I'm currently running my stealth DBS w/ Enforcer Cannons G5 efficient and the thermal damage effect. Packhounds in the C2 slot with G5 high capacity overload missiles. It's not "hard and fast" alpha damage like your looking for, but it's a fun build. I can sustain stealth for a long time and I toggle it off when it's time to let loose the hounds.

 

[ThriveInDark]

Try C2 Rails w/G5 Sturdy. Drops the heat generation pretty big.

I'm currently running my stealth DBS w/ Enforcer Cannons G5 efficient and the thermal damage effect. Packhounds in the C2 slot with G5 high capacity overload missiles. It's not "hard and fast" alpha damage like your looking for, but it's a fun build. I can sustain stealth for a long time and I toggle it off when it's time to let loose the hounds.

Or roll G1 Long Range til you get a 40% thermal load reduction secondary roll. Just takes a bunch of sulfur.

 

[Truesilver]

It sounds like being able to fire in SR is irrelevant though, since it resolves your signature? What would the benefit be of being able to fire in SR?

Two benefits, one historic, one current:

1. In winged fighting, the benefit used to be that you were resolved to only one member of the enemy wing(s). You can imagine how significant that was in an 8v8, such as the final of the first season of the PvP League that I took part in, in which 16 ships all in silent running battled each other.

The above benefit was abolished in ED 2.2 due to something called 'propagation of hostility'. Now the firer becomes resolved to all the ships in the enemy wing.

2. Against seeker missiles / torpedoes / packhounds, the resolution caused by firing at a target does not permit a missile lock (unlike, a gimbal lock). So if you pulse silent running intelligently, an opponent who does not have the emissive special equipped will never be able to get a missile lock on you.

The main perception problem around silent running is that a myth developed in ED 2.0 that it was some kind of OP 1v1 strategy. It was actually always next to useless 1v1. The other guy could always lock not just the shieldless firer but one of their subsystems and (bearing in mind that this was before the addition of MRP's) just core their key internals out one by one.

 

[Morbad]

1. In winged fighting, the benefit used to be that you were resolved to only one member of the enemy wing(s). You can imagine how significant that was in an 8v8, such as the final of the first season of the PvP League that I took part in, in which 16 ships all in silent running battled each other.

It was easy enough to fight the individual silent runner, but fighting a wing of identical looking ships that you couldn't target turned it into a giant six-degrees-of-freedom incarnation of the cup game. Instead of being able to focus down one ship and remove it from the fight, you'd be dealing more or less equal damage to all members of a swarm, which greatly extended the time they could focus back.

 

[bigity]

Efficient multi-cannons can actually be fired for quite a while in Silent Running. Fragment Cannons are indeed great for burst damage, but their heat output is significantly higher compared to multies, and you'd likely not be able to sustain SR. Missiles are even worse.

Here's my test footage from a prior beta, relevant engineer mods used were Low Emissions PP, Clean Drives, and grade 5 Efficient Multi-Cannons (the latter were rolled for best possible result)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnrjH7j_Fqk

Staying in SR while firing is pointless - drop SR while shooting to bleed off heat (or build up less more likely). Then pop back into SR when you get some distance and are not firing.

EDIT: Yea - I can see how switching modes constantly gets old I use frags so I tend to shoot and scoot and then come back for another pass, so it's not as demanding.

 

[StiTch]

Depends on whether you want to take advantage of the DBS and its heat profile to fire rails longer than you'd normally be able to, or use mostly kinetic weaponry to give you the safest and most reliable SR without pushing over the heat limit.

However, always remember...

1. if you fire on a ship, you are always resolved as long as you fire. there is no use to engage running silent while firing, but directly before or after that

Try not to think of SR as a stealth tool as much as a target breaker. If you engage it and start firing, you are (for argument's sake) just engaging in straight up combat but frying yourself in the process. There are a couple of minor benefits, but avoid it for now.

Also remember SR does not work at close ranges.

Finally...don't panic, Mr Mainwaring! Hybrid/hull builds overheating due to SR while taking fire is probably one of the more "brown trousers" ED moments. Just chill and try avoid panic manoeuvers.