Fines and Bounties

[Droidling]

I'm really having a hard time figuring out why I am getting fines. I can't seem to find any information linked to the fines to tell me what I did. All it seems to tell me is the faction that fined me. The same applies to bounties. Nothing that says, "you fired on a system authority vessel", or "A scan revealed Illicit Cargo". How do I find out what I did?

I've been doing Black box and Plans recover missions. I go out, and get a message offering a reward for killing ships that were sent after me. I destroy a ship that is firing on me, after making sure it is wanted. I get a message from the faction I'm working for saying my reputation has been downgraded. The destination on one of the missions gets changed, and I agree to take it to a different station. Kill another ship get another downgrade message. It just says due to recent activity, but not what that activity was. I get back to the station to turn in my mission and I have a 141 thousand credit fine and no idea what for.

 

[Winterwalker]

It's info that I think could/should definitely be improved on.
In fact, fine events are VERY conspicuous by their apparent absence in the player journal;
http://edcodex.info/?m=doc

Probable reason is because I don't think Frontier consider the crime and punishment system to be either finished or finalised, I realise that doesn't help you though.

All I can suggest is that you keep a very close eye on both what constitutes Mission Failure (for which your faction might fine you) and on your Alert Panel, top right of your HUD. You should at least get an alert when a fine is issued and hopefully you can conpare that to your situation in flight .. to try to work out why.

If you think you encountered a bug, especially if it seems to correlate with a certain mission, no matter what you do, you can post in the bug report section of the forum here ... and if this <police brutality> is really hurting your game, raise a support ticket?

 

[Droidling]

It's info that I think could/should definitely be improved on.
In fact, fine events are VERY conspicuous by their apparent absence in the player journal;
http://edcodex.info/?m=doc

Probable reason is because I don't think Frontier consider the crime and punishment system to be either finished or finalised, I realise that doesn't help you though.

All I can suggest is that you keep a very close eye on both what constitutes Mission Failure (for which your faction might fine you) and on your Alert Panel, top right of your HUD. You should at least get an alert when a fine is issued and hopefully you can conpare that to your situation in flight .. to try to work out why.

Is there a way to review alerts? most of the time they disappear before I can really read them.

If you think you encountered a bug, especially if it seems to correlate with a certain mission, no matter what you do, you can post in the bug report section of the forum here ... and if this <police brutality> is really hurting your game, raise a support ticket?

I may just do a ticket saying it is ludicrous to have a penal system in a game and not tell the player what they are being penalized for.

 

[Winterwalker]

Is there a way to review alerts? most of the time they disappear before I can really read them.

No way to review at the moment .. and that's why I mention the alert as missing from the player journal. Ludicrous maybe but it's farily well accepted that the crime and punishment system is pretty basic at the moment.

Alerts are usually easy to spot, a fine being issued is a much more significant alert than new contact / contact lost say, and will be in orange or red, iirc. Look out for authority ships scanning you and finding illicit cargo, stray shots, mission rules ..

 

[Droidling]

...Ludicrous maybe but it's farily well accepted that the crime and punishment system is pretty basic at the moment.

The idea that this is accepted is worse. Could you imagine having the police stop your car, hand you a ticket but not telling you what it was for? I'm sure there are a few third world dictatorships where it could happen. I can't imagine anywhere that people would accept it without complaining.

I realize this is just a game, but what's the point of having a crime and punishment system if you loose the deterrent effect you get only if people know what they did wrong. All the current system does is irritate the players, and lead players to clutter the forum with questions. Maybe 'Ludicrous' isn't strong enough.

This is a rant. I don't expect an immediate solution. I just have a vague hope that someone in Frontiers development staff might be listening.

 

[Faded Glory]

I understand that you are frustrated and ranting.

However, when you get either a fine or a bounty, you do get a great big notification in your HUD (top right over the info section) at the moment you are given it, so that should give you a clue as to why you got it.

For the fines, you might be getting them because with trade data salvage missions, often the data you salvage is marked illicit. You can see this also in the HUD immediately above the fuel gauge where you get a notification of illicit cargo. I don't believe it's meant to be illicit, but it often is. If you are then scanned coming back to the station to hand in the mission you will get a fine, because you have illicit cargo, likewise if you are attacked on the way back and system authority turn up to help you, they will also scan you, and you will get a fine for having illicit cargo. Your reputation would also take a hit then, because you have been caught doing something naughty.

Regarding bounties, you are either assaulting / destroying a clean ship, although you say you scan them to determine they are wanted, so presumably it's not that. You can also get bounties by not paying off fines within the seven day timer, as they then become bounties. I'd actually be surprised if you have bounties, because if you are scanned by system authority with a bounty, you will be destroyed, often very quickly.

Yes, it would be nice if the notice in the transactions tab told you what the fine / bounty was for, perhaps there are technical reasons why it's not done, but as I say, it's hard to miss the moment when you get a fine or bounty.

 

[Red Martian]

Oh mercy, I know how you feel. When I get fined, the party that controls the system is mentioned, but not the system itself. For example, I failed a passenger mission sometime back (smuggling in a brand new Python... bad idea). After my ship exploded, I was dropped into my ship once more at its previous location. As I read the fines that had been accrued, I saw 3:

One was a 300 credit fine for blocking the mail slot (my Python was stuck).
One was 738,000 (give or take) for failing the mission.
One was also for 738,000 (give or take) for failing the mission.

They all referred to the party in control of the system, but not which system or station I had to go to in order to pay the fines. If you clicked on the notification in the mission tab, it did nothing. One might say "Aria, all you have to do is go back to the station where you failed the mission," to which I say which station was that? I can't recall, because there are no logs for previous missions in my menu system. Yeah, if I install a 3rd party app (and get it working properly), I can go back and see, but I shouldn't have to install a 3rd party app so I can find the right people by which to pay my fines.

 

[Droidling]

I understand that you are frustrated and ranting.

However, when you get either a fine or a bounty, you do get a great big notification in your HUD (top right over the info section) at the moment you are given it, so that should give you a clue as to why you got it.

For the fines, you might be getting them because with trade data salvage missions, often the data you salvage is marked illicit. You can see this also in the HUD immediately above the fuel gauge where you get a notification of illicit cargo. I don't believe it's meant to be illicit, but it often is. If you are then scanned coming back to the station to hand in the mission you will get a fine, because you have illicit cargo, likewise if you are attacked on the way back and system authority turn up to help you, they will also scan you, and you will get a fine for having illicit cargo. Your reputation would also take a hit then, because you have been caught doing something naughty.

Regarding bounties, you are either assaulting / destroying a clean ship, although you say you scan them to determine they are wanted, so presumably it's not that. You can also get bounties by not paying off fines within the seven day timer, as they then become bounties. I'd actually be surprised if you have bounties, because if you are scanned by system authority with a bounty, you will be destroyed, often very quickly.

Yes, it would be nice if the notice in the transactions tab told you what the fine / bounty was for, perhaps there are technical reasons why it's not done, but as I say, it's hard to miss the moment when you get a fine or bounty.

I seem to find it very easy to miss a fine notification. The notifications almost always happen in a moment of crisis. I may glance and see that I got some alert, but in the middle of a firefight, or trying to escape before the system authority/pirates blows you up, who has time to really read it. By the time your out of danger it's gone. I have been joining a small wing of friends once a week for combat practice. Every one of us has at one point or another become wanted in the middle of a RES High. Not a single one of us has realized we got a bounty until after the system authority were firing at them. Flashing a notice on the screen for a few seconds is just not good enough.

I am a software engineer, so the idea that there is some difficult technical issue seems like a big stretch. I they can constantly show the last local comm message to tell me that I left a no fire zone 10 minutes ago, why can't they leave the last alert up but grayed out instead of red. The client already keeps a log file (journal), so even making the data persistent shouldn't be a big deal. They already have the screen formatting set up for displaying details of transactions since they use it to display mission details. Most of the work is already done. This is the kind of thing that is easy. If it is not being done, either no one has thought of it, or more likely it just isn't a priority. The only way I have to effect the priority is to complain here, and write up a bug.

 

[Faded Glory]

I seem to find it very easy to miss a fine notification. The notifications almost always happen in a moment of crisis. I may glance and see that I got some alert, but in the middle of a firefight, or trying to escape before the system authority/pirates blows you up, who has time to really read it. By the time your out of danger it's gone. I have been joining a small wing of friends once a week for combat practice. Every one of us has at one point or another become wanted in the middle of a RES High. Not a single one of us has realized we got a bounty until after the system authority were firing at them. Flashing a notice on the screen for a few seconds is just not good enough.

Sounds like you are actually getting friendly fire bounties, not fines.

I don't really know what to suggest if you find the alert for becoming wanted (or getting a fine for that matter) isn't noticeable enough. You could put a suggestion in the suggestions forum asking for an optional audio alert. Personally I have no problem seeing it, and once you are wanted there is a wanted sign in red just above the fuel gauge.

I don't honestly see how having the reason for your fine or bounty available would make a difference to the issue that you don't realize you are getting it.

 

[Crank Larson]

I seem to find it very easy to miss a fine notification.

I agree, it is very easy to miss these - especially when you are fighting or doing anything else that takes your attention. Any messages that appear in the information panel (top right) are short-lived, and there is no way to get them back once they're gone. When I'm exploring, this irritates me a lot as I like to see the type of star that I am jumping to - this is displayed in the info panel when you trigger hyperjump. More often than not, I forget to look (I'll have flipped to system map or something), and it's already too late by the time I remember.

If FD made the Info Panel data last longer and be scrollable, that would go a long way to sorting these n_i_g_gles. Even better would be that the information is dumped to the player journal.

 

[Droidling]

Sounds like you are actually getting friendly fire bounties, not fines.

I don't really know what to suggest if you find the alert for becoming wanted (or getting a fine for that matter) isn't noticeable enough. You could put a suggestion in the suggestions forum asking for an optional audio alert. Personally I have no problem seeing it, and once you are wanted there is a wanted sign in red just above the fuel gauge.

I don't honestly see how having the reason for your fine or bounty available would make a difference to the issue that you don't realize you are getting it.

If you read the original post it might make more sense. The second paragraph describes the situation that caused me to post. In short forum; I got a 141 thousand cr fine. I would like to avoid doing that again. I can't do that if I don't know why I got it.

The problem is that for a new player a bounty or fine notification will pop up. You either don't get time to read it or miss it entirely. Then you see it in your transactions and you are left guessing what you did wrong. People that have been playing this game for years forget the time when they didn't know how exactly things worked.

 

[Pyrobee]

If you read the original post it might make more sense. The second paragraph describes the situation that caused me to post. In short forum; I got a 141 thousand cr fine. I would like to avoid doing that again. I can't do that if I don't know why I got it.

The problem is that for a new player a bounty or fine notification will pop up. You either don't get time to read it or miss it entirely. Then you see it in your transactions and you are left guessing what you did wrong. People that have been playing this game for years forget the time when they didn't know how exactly things worked.

We were all new players once and had to learn what mistakes we were making. Most of us didn't need to come and ask for the game to be redisigned for us.
Getting a 141 thousand credit fine it sounds like either you took on a mission, didn't bother reading the text telling you that you would be fined for failiure, failed and then got fined.
Other option is ships you were killing belonged to a faction in the system, but not the mission giver, and they are putting out a bounty for murder on you. Just because a ship is wanted in system by the controlling faction doesn't mean their friends won't place a bounty on you as well.

 

[Red Martian]

We were all new players once and had to learn what mistakes we were making. Most of us didn't need to come and ask for the game to be redisigned for us.
Getting a 141 thousand credit fine it sounds like either you took on a mission, didn't bother reading the text telling you that you would be fined for failiure, failed and then got fined.
Other option is ships you were killing belonged to a faction in the system, but not the mission giver, and they are putting out a bounty for murder on you. Just because a ship is wanted in system by the controlling faction doesn't mean their friends won't place a bounty on you as well.

It's not unreasonable to have the bounty and fine system actually list what happened to incur the fine, or where you have to go to pay the bounty or fine. In fact, it is eminently reasonable to expect that function.

 

[Faded Glory]

If you read the original post it might make more sense. The second paragraph describes the situation that caused me to post. In short forum; I got a 141 thousand cr fine. I would like to avoid doing that again. I can't do that if I don't know why I got it.

The problem is that for a new player a bounty or fine notification will pop up. You either don't get time to read it or miss it entirely. Then you see it in your transactions and you are left guessing what you did wrong. People that have been playing this game for years forget the time when they didn't know how exactly things worked.

I did read your original post, and also the one that I responded to that you have quoted. I'm honestly only trying to help...

While it may seem complicated on the surface, it's really not.

You can get a bounty because:

1. You shot something you should not have, or caused a ship to be destroyed by colliding with it while speeding (or a skimmer at a planetary base regardless of speed) in the no fire zone of a station.
2. You get scanned with a wanted passenger on board.
3. You 'loiter' in a station.
4. You didn't pay a fine off and it became a bounty.

You will now be marked kill on sight.

You get a fine because:
1. You got caught (scanned) with illicit goods.
2. You interdicted a clean ship.
3. You collided with a ship while speeding in the no fire zone of a station but the other ship was not destroyed.
4. You failed a mission that caused you to get a fine (not all missions have this penalty).

Nobody but you will know or care about this unless you fail to pay it off due to number 4 in the first list.

I'm pretty sure that is an exhaustive list, but I stand to be corrected.

In my original reply to your thread, I did explain why you might have got a fine (trade data being marked as illicit, and then you were scanned by system authority).

The post you quoted above referred to you saying that you are going to RES and getting bounties, not realizing it and getting blown up. I'm simply telling you why I suspect you are getting the bounty. Friendly fire, you accidentally shot a clean ship.

Always keep an eye open just above your fuel gauge. It shows potentially important info there such as whether you are wanted, are speeding or are carrying illicit cargo. If anything is showing there, you need to be careful as potential trouble is just around the corner if you make a mistake. This information is persistent, it's always there when relevant, no need to scroll or look for it.

Anyway, if you feel a 'paper trail' letting you know exactly what you did wrong to get a fine or bounty would be helpful, make a suggestion in the suggestions forum. I really doubt it's a high priority for FD though because it's really generally pretty straight forward and obvious. Yes, the game does have a bit of a learning curve, but hopefully the lists above will be a help.

 

[Faded Glory]

or where you have to go to pay the bounty or fine. In fact, it is eminently reasonable to expect that function.

That can be a bit of an issue since bounties and fines became faction specific, although I suspect that FD assume we are able to track our own movements enough.

However, nowadays you can go to any low security system that has a station, look under Contacts in station services and select Interstellar Factors. They are a handy organization that allows players to cash in bounties from any faction, and pay fines from any faction, both with a 25% fee for the convenience.

 

[Red Anders]

I agree, it is very easy to miss these - especially when you are fighting or doing anything else that takes your attention. Any messages that appear in the information panel (top right) are short-lived, and there is no way to get them back once they're gone. When I'm exploring, this irritates me a lot as I like to see the type of star that I am jumping to - this is displayed in the info panel when you trigger hyperjump. More often than not, I forget to look (I'll have flipped to system map or something), and it's already too late by the time I remember.

If FD made the Info Panel data last longer and be scrollable, that would go a long way to sorting these n_i_g_gles. Even better would be that the information is dumped to the player journal.

Whereas I would hate it staying on-screen longer by default because it's just clutter. As for your problem with constantly forgetting to look at some information that is presented to you despite the fact you say it is important to you, sorry but it's exactly what you suggested - your problem.

 

[Red Martian]

That can be a bit of an issue since bounties and fines became faction specific, although I suspect that FD assume we are able to track our own movements enough.

However, nowadays you can go to any low security system that has a station, look under Contacts in station services and select Interstellar Factors. They are a handy organization that allows players to cash in bounties from any faction, and pay fines from any faction, both with a 25% fee for the convenience.

Thank you! I didn't know that!

 

[Teh Smoo]

Thank you! I didn't know that!

Also, I like flying fighters for people sometimes. I tend to do it in these low-sec stations, so that if something goes poorly (I never intentionally FF stuff, but things happen, helms also screw up sometimes) I can accept the rewards, and pay the fine instantly, regardless of where it was. And know that I have no dormant fines anywhere.

I have yet to have a MP session where I racked up more fines than payout (or even close), but if I did, I would just NOT accept the session. Which is a little silly, but that's how it was designed.

 

[Droidling]

Whereas I would hate it staying on-screen longer by default because it's just clutter. As for your problem with constantly forgetting to look at some information that is presented to you despite the fact you say it is important to you, sorry but it's exactly what you suggested - your problem.

Delete because I realized you were addressing someoneelses post my apologizes for the misunderstanding.

 

[Red Martian]

Also, I like flying fighters for people sometimes. I tend to do it in these low-sec stations, so that if something goes poorly (I never intentionally FF stuff, but things happen, helms also screw up sometimes) I can accept the rewards, and pay the fine instantly, regardless of where it was. And know that I have no dormant fines anywhere.

I have yet to have a MP session where I racked up more fines than payout (or even close), but if I did, I would just NOT accept the session. Which is a little silly, but that's how it was designed.

Oh, I understand and agree there. For me it's more "you owe us 100 credits!" when I'm already out the airlock and about to jump to my next system with 30 passengers on board. I know it sounds silly, that I could forget where I just was, but believe me, it happens to me all of the time. Usually, I try to get a screenshot of the system and station I'm in, but I don't always remember, and it's a bit of a hassle for what it is.

I just think you should be able to click on the fine, like you would any other transaction, and see details like where you accrued it, and what it was for. These are just minor things that would help in a big way, I think.