So it's not worth running a public beta to thoroughly test any features because some features have to be reserved for the sake of the game's storyline? At the very least, having the community test the parts of 2.4 that can be released frees up more internal testing time for the thargoid content.
Complaint about BETA
- Thread starter Seljdon
- Start date
Yes that seems like a good idea. I thought that when they announced it's exactly what they would be doing.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/369071-2-4-The-Return-Beta-Information
My emails all have a Sent folder - don't yours, OP? I'd really like to see some vindication for the roasting you have taken in this thread, so all you have to do is show some of those bug report emails that you sent.
Alternatively, you can just give up the ghost, and post a link to your YouTube/Twitch, and maybe still get some clicks and/or views.
Riôt
Alternatively, you can just give up the ghost, and post a link to your YouTube/Twitch, and maybe still get some clicks and/or views.
Riôt
how can you say that when the thargoid ruins have been bugged multiple times and anything thargoid related after that has been bugged ?
wait you forgot to add bugs kept secret by player groups to garner an advantage ,like the 30% synthesised ammo bug ,and rolling epic RNG rolls by doing that ...thing
Beta access is a paid for item; however under no circumstances, do we get to dictate what is in any said beta, or when this occurs. There are no implicit rights. None. Zip. And they are under no obligation to add content that may or may not have spoiler related concerns, just because.
We can report bugs on any number of concerns; the problem to me, is that most people have beta to get a sneak-peak. There are a hardy few who actually test and bug report. And often? It's the PVP guys and gals who are the first to recognise issues with code that's gone askew. But the best we can do, is advise frontier. And before you get an "it's just PVP people", let me remind you that quite a few PVE issues were sat on for financial gain as well.
Again, frontier are providing beta access, so they are meeting any transaction related commitment. The how, when and why, is not ours to define.
Frontier are also providing a split closed/ open beta for 2.4. Something they will probably do more often now. In the past, they just weren't big enough and able to cope with large numbers of commanders; I believe as the team has matured, grown and built a proper test cycle, they're in a beta position (oh come on that's a h*cken good pun) to scale out to a wider audience. This is a good sign, not a bad one.
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Actually most of these sorts of bugs are reported; the problem is the assumption that the developer a) doesn't know and b) can instantaneously respond with a fix. Neither is typically true. Don't assume one specific scenario is ipso-facto definitive proof. You'll just look foolish trying that line, frankly. It's almost never as simple as it looks. It's almost never not known about in reasonable time. Sometimes things break in ways that are non-trivial to fix.
Lastly, the developer is going to make mistakes on occasion, and there is no such thing as bug free code. Massive, massive oversimplification doesn't really help.
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edit: the single biggest issue by far, has been Frontier's insistence on adding last minute changes and fixes that don't get tested, and instead are passed into go-live build. This is the one and only action I really really would prefer they stopped. I'd far rather they promoted a fully tested build, even if there are known issues and then document those known issues during go live.
Because at least the code is tested, and any issues can be pretty rapidly addressed via post-update patches. I'd far rather the issues were known, and already slated for fixes during go-live, than these untested builds that go live and cause utter chaos.
Frontier are, at times, their own worst enemy here. They need to knock that 'publish last minute fixes into untested build' to live nonsense on the head. Other than that, I have zero issues with their approach to beta. It's okay to not fix everything; just make sure the basics aren't busted and for the love of the maker, no untested last minute fixes. I'm watching you, Sandro. Always watching.
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I've been in literally dozens since the mid 80's. Some I even got paid for. I can absolutely guarantee you that the above statement is not true 100% of the time. Not all 'new material' requires extensive outside beta testing, it's handled in-house by the Dev team or a select team they hire or otherwise recruit for the process.
Some beta tests are for specific content, mechanics, stress tests or other purposes where a larger number of people is required to properly test things, find what's broken, and fix it.
They test what they feel needs to be tested. Your misconceptions of the process don't make it any less of a beta, simply because you don't like how they run their testing.
Has it. The thargoid bases seem to work perfectly. All the cut scenes seemed to work fine as well. In fact all the thargoid stuff has seemed to work fine. It's only the Alien Guardian (not Thargoid) Ancient Ruins that where badly bugged.
TBH I thought all of the new Thargoid stuff would have been done in house thus its not going to be in beta, that and FD dont want spoliers, YouTube would be alive with the sound of Thargoids.
I was sort of refering to the mess that 2.3 was when it came out, which then got patched and seems to be doing ok. Not that I would know tho came back and headed 10k out to the the rim, now about a 1000k under the Heart Nebula.
FD give Astroid bases ships yards....
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If you read my post (carefully) you'll realise that I am talking about both, because they are connected. Beta access for all upcoming releases, updates and expansions was a reward for a kickstarter tier and the first LEP. You can't talk about one without talking about the other. If you would make beta access free for everyone you would take that privilege away from the supporters of this game. If you remove the paid beta access that got added later you would remove their option to play the beta for them, without gaining anything. Can you see how they are related?
I am not defending the game or their sales team, I am defending my access to beta which is what you want to take away from me without a proper reason.
If you read my post (carefully) you'll realise why. I suggest you start at the paragraph above.
No, you didn't understand anything. I suggest you read my post (carefully) and maybe you'll realise where you are wrong. If not, feel free to ask questions but please do so without adding your own misinterpretation. Example: 'Why am I morally wrong in your opinion?' instead of 'Why is it morally wrong to not buy beta access?'. The former is a real question, the latter is just nonsense you made up to make your argument look stronger (it doesn't).
PS
I do agree that 'morally wrong' is too strong, but it's you who brought his 'principles' into this...
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Paid Beta = Early access that is it.
As for FD and the way they are doing it, I have no problems with it (Yes i paid for the early access also.)
What I do have a problem with is that a lot of the major bugs that get reported, during the "beta" are still in the release version.
As for FD and the way they are doing it, I have no problems with it (Yes i paid for the early access also.)
What I do have a problem with is that a lot of the major bugs that get reported, during the "beta" are still in the release version.
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Thargoids...
You've got that spot on cmdr!
Iv not paid for Beta access, so Ive no worries about what FD include in it's Beta. It doesn't bother me about having ALL content included & if players then report these features on the forums, I don't see that as spoiling MY gameplay, though I can see how others see it differently.
As you quite rightly state, not all bugs found in Beta are resolved before main release, Im tending now not to get involved in new features now until they are bug free (or nearly bug free).
Im only now looking at the alien structures & seeing what I can do with it.
I know that others have a different view to Beta content. During the last update, when the Beta version was open to all, I probably spent more time downloading the damn thing than I did playing on it.
We seem to be basing this on a false premise that paid beta is the only beta testing going on. The story stuff can be tested internally while not exposing it to the public and that is probably what is happening.
I think the majority of the arguments in this thread aren't because people aren't aware that the code is tested internally.
It's because a majority of people can't understand what kind of development model this game uses.
Most games that are marketed as games that will go on for 10+ years dont rely on a narrative that is orchestrated with content in realtime. Mostly because those other game developers want players who come in at year 7 to have just as much content as players who came in at year 1 and for their development efforts to be re-usable over and over. Fdev's efforts are in many ways 1 off's that lose all meaning once told and exposed. It makes little sense and adds to confusion when comparing to other games.
Many commenters have been around the game since before it launched. They have seen other beta's run and know how this will go. It doesn't work like how a beta should go if you go by nearly any software product with open development. Lots of bugs will remain after the beta, new bugs will be introduced between the end of the beta and the release and in this case, the most important part probably wont in any way be tested by the beta testers - combat with the new alien npcs. This will lead to more re-balancing updates after the beta at the very least. So basically they wonder why have a beta at all?
Fdev doesn't help themselves by not communicating. Not explaining why otherwise simple bugs dont get fixed for weeks. Not explaining why they do beta's wrong. Not having a real public bug tracker. Just overall being a black box.
We're basically playing an early access game that will be early access until it shuts down from the looks of things. That's neither good or bad in itself, but I think gamers expect much more transparency from a game that wants people to pay for it while they are still trying to finish it. And when it comes to the paid beta's, i think that desire is even greater while they've seen basically nothing.
I have beta access, it seems much more about placating those who paid more than about squashing bugs. Not that bugs wont be squashed...but it hasn't been anything close to what I consider how beta's work ...and I dont see that changing.
Keep the narrative secret, even though i hate the idea of a narrative in a multiplayer online game and it's a total waste of fdev resources since none of this mystery and hype can ever be re-used. But the most important part of this next release should be tested by the beta public otherwise why even bother with the beta? Put the thargoid ai's in normal ships and give their weapons the new thargoid weapon blasts and shields, thrusters etc yet keep the module names all what we already know. That would allow players to test the ship balance appropriately without giving away any stupid "first!" moments.
It's because a majority of people can't understand what kind of development model this game uses.
Most games that are marketed as games that will go on for 10+ years dont rely on a narrative that is orchestrated with content in realtime. Mostly because those other game developers want players who come in at year 7 to have just as much content as players who came in at year 1 and for their development efforts to be re-usable over and over. Fdev's efforts are in many ways 1 off's that lose all meaning once told and exposed. It makes little sense and adds to confusion when comparing to other games.
Many commenters have been around the game since before it launched. They have seen other beta's run and know how this will go. It doesn't work like how a beta should go if you go by nearly any software product with open development. Lots of bugs will remain after the beta, new bugs will be introduced between the end of the beta and the release and in this case, the most important part probably wont in any way be tested by the beta testers - combat with the new alien npcs. This will lead to more re-balancing updates after the beta at the very least. So basically they wonder why have a beta at all?
Fdev doesn't help themselves by not communicating. Not explaining why otherwise simple bugs dont get fixed for weeks. Not explaining why they do beta's wrong. Not having a real public bug tracker. Just overall being a black box.
We're basically playing an early access game that will be early access until it shuts down from the looks of things. That's neither good or bad in itself, but I think gamers expect much more transparency from a game that wants people to pay for it while they are still trying to finish it. And when it comes to the paid beta's, i think that desire is even greater while they've seen basically nothing.
I have beta access, it seems much more about placating those who paid more than about squashing bugs. Not that bugs wont be squashed...but it hasn't been anything close to what I consider how beta's work ...and I dont see that changing.
Keep the narrative secret, even though i hate the idea of a narrative in a multiplayer online game and it's a total waste of fdev resources since none of this mystery and hype can ever be re-used. But the most important part of this next release should be tested by the beta public otherwise why even bother with the beta? Put the thargoid ai's in normal ships and give their weapons the new thargoid weapon blasts and shields, thrusters etc yet keep the module names all what we already know. That would allow players to test the ship balance appropriately without giving away any stupid "first!" moments.
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No, you got it wrong again. Feel more then welcome not to partake in the beta, noone will mind.
Option 1: Cavet Emptor - stop paying for Beta access until they agree to do things your way.
Option 2: Request a Non-Disclosure Agreement and be contractually bound not to discuss any beta material or be subjected to expensive law suits and account termination - a pretty common practice actually.
Since we don't really know what this new Thargoid content will be, it is possible no beta testing is required. If it's more cutscene action like hyperdictions or barnacle visits, odds are it really won't require any testing anyways.
And as proof I read your entire post "up to spec" does not have a "k". It's short for "specification" which also does not have a "k".
"Speck" on the other hand, refers to a minute portion, such as "Compared to the entire galaxy, the bubble is just a speck."
I kinda agree with you for the simple reason that the beta tests don't seem to serve much purpose. I have seen countless of major bugs being reported and still, they didn't fix them in the public release. So, one has to wonder really why they do beta tests...
Exactly my same experience. Which makes you wonder why they have a beta...