And that's your choice. I probably won't bother paying for it next time out, but we have a choice. No one forced you to buy it. Nobody forced me. But it only cost me £5, a pound more than the iced coffee I just drank. So not a major issue for me. If you find it an issue, well that's yours.
Complaint about BETA
- Thread starter Seljdon
- Start date
And that's your choice. I probably won't bother paying for it next time out, but we have a choice. No one forced you to buy it. Nobody forced me. But it only cost me £5, a pound more than the iced coffee I just drank. So not a major issue for me. If you find it an issue, well that's yours.
just guessing but imo they started this when they realized they *really* needed some mass testing, and iirc it was because of some extensive changes in the networking code (they even said it). aggressive optimizations are dangerous and the type and number of bugs that were reported that week really freaked me out, but it anyhow ended well.
the reason this time around for going open beta? no idea. wait and see ...
It's more about the principle of the matter.
I've bought all the weapon colours, all but one engine colour, two ship kits (Anaconda/Corvette), lots of paint jobs for various ships, a flight suit, lots of paint jobs for SRVs, paint jobs for fighters, and the female pilot bobble-head... and I'm now debating to get the Sol bobble set... all of that probably equates to a whole new game and the expansion - this is fine, however, as many of us accept that cosmetics are real-money transactions, but they are not a nescecary (pay-to-win) part of the game - there are many of them and we can use them as much as we want, and individually they are all pretty cheap.
I and many others have the money to buy Beta access if we want to, but in the history of gaming, 99% of all games in the market have always run "open" betas - the fact that Frontier even sold beta access is anathema to the principles of online gaming - because of this hugely negative choice of Frontier "money grabbing", as many of us see it, we do not and will not buy access to any betas.
You wouldn't buy a car with two flat tires and then thank the salesman for it - and the same goes for paying for beta.
Sure, I'll get in the car and test it on two flat tires for you and then give you the results, but if you expect me to pay for that "privilege" you can get ......... *naughty words* lol...
The Thargoid stuff will be tested in house. It is too vital to the game to be tested by casual normal players. There are lots of QOL things for us regular beta testers to test out.
What is a facade is your arrogance and patronizing attitude.
I dub this The Dataminer's Lament.
Is this thread still going! Blimey. Can I just add that my microwave isn't working.
Do you need me to deliver some food cartridges?
It's the way you tell em!
Edit :- Sorry, I read your name as Frank Carson. I have a dodgy eye you see.
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Whilst the aliens are the headline, there's going to be a bunch of other things that need testing.
I'm willing to bet we're going to get the first tweaks looking forward to the crime and punishment changes. There's also likely to be new planetary features and missions, especially expanding on the chained missions that need to be done.
That there is an open beta this time suggests that there's stuff that needs a lot of data gathering, and that does look like it's going to be C&P changes. If that's true, we'll be busy enough complaining about that for 4-6 weeks.
C&P wouldn't be effected by Thargoids but would definitely need more testing than them anyway since it's going to impact everyone.
FD might seem like they're flailing around when it comes to betas, but everything they've done with the Thargoids has worked. It's when they start fiddling with bigger systems that it gets knotty.
Besides, I doubt very much we're going to be able to anything but die or barely get away for a quite a while, because those anti Thargoid weapons won't come about without at least some community involvement.
I'm willing to bet we're going to get the first tweaks looking forward to the crime and punishment changes. There's also likely to be new planetary features and missions, especially expanding on the chained missions that need to be done.
That there is an open beta this time suggests that there's stuff that needs a lot of data gathering, and that does look like it's going to be C&P changes. If that's true, we'll be busy enough complaining about that for 4-6 weeks.
C&P wouldn't be effected by Thargoids but would definitely need more testing than them anyway since it's going to impact everyone.
FD might seem like they're flailing around when it comes to betas, but everything they've done with the Thargoids has worked. It's when they start fiddling with bigger systems that it gets knotty.
Besides, I doubt very much we're going to be able to anything but die or barely get away for a quite a while, because those anti Thargoid weapons won't come about without at least some community involvement.
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That's just not true. 99% of all other games that got funded via kickstarter do it EXACTLY like Frontier does it: Giving beta access to those who paid for beta. (actually 99% of all other games don't run any betas at all...)
Later lots of people complained on the forums that they missed kickstarter and would gladly pay for beta. Frontier listened to them and made it available one year after release. They actually did these people a favour and listened to the community. If you don't want to pay for it, don't. But don't try to take it away from those who want it. Either go for the later date and join the Open beta or ignore it.
I think that's quite a selfish attitude you have there. You either want to take beta away from those who funded the game or you want to take the option away for those who will gladly pay for it, and you aren't even involved, or interested or anything. Just because you don't like the concept. Because it's against your principle. I'd say your principle is morally wrong.
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Actually there have been several betas that didn't include all the coming content, the engineers being the most recent one I can think of that omitted several things that were in the general release.
I'm not sure if you've been playing since the very beginning but if not you are making a big assumption about what content is included in the beta testing and if you WERE in right from the off your memory is faulty.
I'm not sure if you've been playing since the very beginning but if not you are making a big assumption about what content is included in the beta testing and if you WERE in right from the off your memory is faulty.
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i dont think they can actually test it through since DBOBE stated it will come in dribs and drabs , so there would be a beta for every single part of the story which will be aired all over youtube and the forums.
Sorry OP but i just dont agree with what you propose.
This is my favourite part of your rant, Basically anyone who disagrees with you is a Frontier fanboi.
Great stuff.
OP, since you keep claiming no one has actually read you post, I will break it down...
I'll decide if I personally feel ripped off, thank you. I don't. I'm glad that I have been able to beta test, even though I wasn't part of the kickstarter. I've gotten my money's worth, by test driving ships I couldn't afford and don't want to grind rank for. I've filled in plenty of bug reports and given feedback for the betas. If you don't like the idea of paid betas, don't pay for it or wait for the open access betas.
Respectfully, I disagree most strongly. If the new Thargoid content were present, the Internet would be overrun with spoilers within a few days. That would completely ruin the update for all the non-beta players, who paid for the full game.
There will be a lot of changes to the base code, which needs testing, assuming this beta is like the others. I look forward to reviewing the changelog (but then, I'm a programmer who enjoys this sort of thing).
While I am a fan of this game, I'm no white knight (read some of my posts on antialiasing or UI colors). I feel that it is you who is missing the point. There will be lots of changes which still need testing.
It is a beta of the changes. Sometimes I wish that my progression would transfer, like all the engineered upgrades I got for fish, but mostly, I'm glad it doesn't transfer.
As I mentioned earlier, the definition of "beta" has changed, due to the influence of the Internet. It's time to stop living in the past.
I agree, 100%. Rep++
It has everything to do with avoiding "spoiling" the game for regular players. We will test the stuff FD thinks needs testing.
I see. Have you mounted your buggy whip on the wall, or are you still using it to beat a dead horse?
As you can see, I have read your whole post. While you are correct, this isn't a beta test of the full product, including the Thargoid content would ruin the story for many players, so it is completely appropriate to do a partial beta test in this case.
Umm... OK, then you should act your age.
I understand completely. You can't wait to see the Thargoid content and you are so selfish that you don't care if that ruins the story for all the non-beta players.
True. Rep++
Exactly. Rep++
Agreed. Rep++
Right. Rep++
And mine. Rep++
Unfortunately, true. Rep++
1) If possible. Not all bugs can be fixed in a limited timeframe.
2) Ideally, but not unheard of.
3) No, that's the last "release candidate", not the last beta.
You're entitled to your opinion, but it's only a name. FD can call it what they like.
Betas test whatever the developer thinks needs testing. While the Thargoid content also needs testing, especially since the Alien Ruins debacle, FD has chosen to keep that testing in-house. I respect their decision.
Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. I think FD has added an open beta, due in large part to feedback on this forum.
Agreed. I don't want that either. Rep++
Why should this thread be different from all the others? If you disagree with (any) OP, you're a fanboi, a white knight, a ganker, etc. We should avoid name-calling or this thread will get locked. (Which might not be a bad thing.) Rep++
As someone who works in the software industry, I can attest that that's not the way betas actually work in practice. Our early betas frequently have certain areas turned off, that aren't yet ready for testing. Ever since the rise of the Internet, the concepts of alpha, beta, and shipping release have been muddled. Most products these days seem to be in perpetual beta.
I'll decide if I personally feel ripped off, thank you. I don't. I'm glad that I have been able to beta test, even though I wasn't part of the kickstarter. I've gotten my money's worth, by test driving ships I couldn't afford and don't want to grind rank for. I've filled in plenty of bug reports and given feedback for the betas. If you don't like the idea of paid betas, don't pay for it or wait for the open access betas.
Respectfully, I disagree most strongly. If the new Thargoid content were present, the Internet would be overrun with spoilers within a few days. That would completely ruin the update for all the non-beta players, who paid for the full game.
There will be a lot of changes to the base code, which needs testing, assuming this beta is like the others. I look forward to reviewing the changelog (but then, I'm a programmer who enjoys this sort of thing).
While I am a fan of this game, I'm no white knight (read some of my posts on antialiasing or UI colors). I feel that it is you who is missing the point. There will be lots of changes which still need testing.
It is a beta of the changes. Sometimes I wish that my progression would transfer, like all the engineered upgrades I got for fish, but mostly, I'm glad it doesn't transfer.
As I mentioned earlier, the definition of "beta" has changed, due to the influence of the Internet. It's time to stop living in the past.
I agree, 100%. Rep++
It has everything to do with avoiding "spoiling" the game for regular players. We will test the stuff FD thinks needs testing.
I see. Have you mounted your buggy whip on the wall, or are you still using it to beat a dead horse?
As you can see, I have read your whole post. While you are correct, this isn't a beta test of the full product, including the Thargoid content would ruin the story for many players, so it is completely appropriate to do a partial beta test in this case.
Umm... OK, then you should act your age.
I understand completely. You can't wait to see the Thargoid content and you are so selfish that you don't care if that ruins the story for all the non-beta players.
True. Rep++
Exactly. Rep++
Agreed. Rep++
Right. Rep++
And mine. Rep++
Unfortunately, true. Rep++
1) If possible. Not all bugs can be fixed in a limited timeframe.
2) Ideally, but not unheard of.
3) No, that's the last "release candidate", not the last beta.
You're entitled to your opinion, but it's only a name. FD can call it what they like.
Betas test whatever the developer thinks needs testing. While the Thargoid content also needs testing, especially since the Alien Ruins debacle, FD has chosen to keep that testing in-house. I respect their decision.
Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. I think FD has added an open beta, due in large part to feedback on this forum.
Agreed. I don't want that either. Rep++
Why should this thread be different from all the others?
If you disagree with (any) OP, you're a fanboi, a white knight, a ganker, etc. We should avoid name-calling or this thread will get locked. (Which might not be a bad thing.) Rep++
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OP. I sincerely hope FD do not release all the new content for beta testers. I already have to avoid Youtube all day Monday 'cos of muppets posting Game of Thrones spoilers before the UK's episode that evening. If FD allowed full access to beta, I'd have to take a 3 month break from YT to avoid spoilers. No thanks.
OP has a sense of entitlement that is completely out of proportion and disconnected from reality. /thread
Can some moderator close this thread, pretty please?
Can some moderator close this thread, pretty please?
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Sorry, are you talking about vanilla Elite: Dangerous that promised beta as part of the kickstarter deal? Because I'm on about the game once it went gold and its subsequent expansion and the fact they continued to sell "Beta" as a cash cow - it isn't a kickstarter anymore if it has already been released for a year and has an expansion tacked onto it for the last two. Defend the game all you want (well, Frontier's sales team), but using the kickstarter brick when the game has almost finished it's final phase of its first expansion means it is no longer deserving of a kickstart badge when it has been hugely succesful and has been released on 3 platforms...
Hundreds of games over the last decade and more have always asked their playerbase to participate in beta access - some allowed everyone in, others in an email lottery - never have I known a game (that wasn't started through kickstarter, by the way) to actually sell "Beta" testing as a product (edit; or tacked onto kick-starters as something to entice buyers) - you are paying for a product that doesn't work 100% and are providing, potentially (though questionably considering all it takes is money rather than being a fan), some form of feedback (no matter the quality of it), and my principle, you say, is morally wrong?
So, let me get this straight... I'm the one that's morally wrong (so strong) for not wanting to buy a product that doesn't work 100% (two flat tires), yet uses up my valuable free time to test and provide feedback?
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I think you misunderstood slightly. The morally wrong bit wasn't about you not wanting to buy beta access, but suggesting that no-one else should be able to do so because you object to it on principle. Morally wrong is probably a bit strong, but I absolutely agree that it is up to each individual whether they want to buy into beta access or not. I certainly don't see what is wrong with selling beta access - you are being told exactly what you are buying.