Do you want the Thargoids to hit hard and be actually a threat to the Bubble?

[NeilF]

Pretty much expecting nothing anymore so FD please give me a reason to play again. I bought ED ages back on all the promises and videos of action and engaging gameplay I saw. It was cool at first, interdictions, hard to make cash ect. but Space trucker 330whaterver year in the safest game universe ever. I didn't expect it to turn out to be.
Strike that balance if you can. Make Thargoids a slow but continual onslaught so those of us who want action can protect those who don't. If we fail then everything goes and we will consider ourselves "told" but like has been said rebadged CZS won't cut it now.

TBH, I'm now expecting the rest of Season 2 to unfold with me not playing it... I just can't see two years of design ethos changing now.

I expect some Thargoid combat stuff... Some Thargoid puzzles which a few dozen CMDRs will enjoy in person, while the rest watch them on youtube. Some story maybe with a cut scene or location/aftermath to go and see and point and click at... And maybe some community goals with bar charts showing outcomes in rebadged CZs?

And I'm still wondering if we'll get some sort of griefing overload at some point with CMDRs eagerly outfitting their combat ships with weapons that won't be effective at all against grinning canines who for some strange reason decide they need to protect Thargoids...

As long as there are West End girls rocks to go with the Eastoids, I'm happy.

Don't know what you're talking about with that fake quote you made of my perfectly 100% gramatically correct original post. You clearly changed that error free comment of mine! Well that's the story I'm sticking too!

 

[KING5TON]

I want them to bring interesting and fun game play, other than that I'm not too fussed how hard they are or how much they threaten the bubble.

They could destroy 99% of human controlled systems and I probably wouldn't notice. I only move around in ED because I have to. To go to CGs or to get cheaper ships etc... There's very little game play reason for having so many systems other than exploration/passenger missions. Even trading could exist fine with just two systems.

Hard does not always equal fun (although with proper design games can be hard and fun, e.g. Dark Souls). In ED I think because the cost of death is (at my level) too high the new content shouldn't be too hard else I just won't bother with it. It takes me HOURS of grinding to recoup the cost of a lost ship, I cannot take anymore grind that I absolutely have to, it's too soul destroyingly boring.

If the new content brings enough rewards that the risk of losing my ship and the subsequent regrind isn't required that would make it more appealing (e.g. if I get 10,000,000 for destroying a Thargoid ship then losing my own ship only means I need to kill another Thargoid ship to recoup the cost, not grind for hours in a RES).

 

[jasonbarron]

I look at it like this: if Fdev has the forethought to treat the Thargoids like a proper faction (albeit mysterious and inscrutable) with the ability to expand their influence in new systems, or to be forced out of some systems, then this will be a vote of confidence for the future of the game. The bubble doesn't need to burn entirely, but there has to be huge swaths of it that are truly terrifying and risky to visit.

If all we get are signal sources that can be ignored, or the aliens themselves are so dialed back in difficulty that the guy who occasionally loses his FdL to the NPC with the T9 is still comfortable fighting them, then not only is 2.4 doomed, it'll be the final crummy capstone on a spectacularly underwhelming 12 months of development on Horizons. I'd go so far as to say that what we're discussing here is more or less the beginning of the end of the further development of the game. The crossroads, if you will; if Fdev cant get this one right, there is not only no ten year plan, there is no reason to stay on board even if there is.

Personally, I saw this coming since 2.1 released.

 

[NeilF]

I wonder if FD will make use of the PP map to display the thargoids invasion and areas under threat of further expansion.

Think non player PP faction not tied by distance and costs issue. IMO it would have the merit of being transparent (look in the map ) and allow an expansion in week cycles.

Also it would finally make use of all the PP developed stuff for something usefully. Finally....

I've wondered that too in the past... It would be great if Powerplay type tasks were available to sway outcomes. Most importantly it would be great if these tasks were rather more involved and interesting than what Powerplay gave us two years ago! ie: Deep and involved combat scenarios and gameplay... But I'm not holding my breath on this TBH!

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I look at it like this: if Fdev has the forethought to treat the Thargoids like a proper faction (albeit mysterious and inscrutable) with the ability to expand their influence in new systems, or to be forced out of some systems, then this will be a vote of confidence for the future of the game. The bubble doesn't need to burn entirely, but there has to be huge swaths of it that are truly terrifying and risky to visit.

If all we get are signal sources that can be ignored, or the aliens themselves are so dialed back in difficulty that the guy who occasionally loses his FdL to the NPC with the T9 is still comfortable fighting them, then not only is 2.4 doomed, it'll be the final crummy capstone on a spectacularly underwhelming 12 months of development on Horizons. I'd go so far as to say that what we're discussing here is more or less the beginning of the end of the further development of the game. The crossroads, if you will; if Fdev cant get this one right, there is not only no ten year plan, there is no reason to stay on board even if there is.

Personally, I saw this coming since 2.1 released.

With the engineers released we're already past that crossroads.

 

[StiTch]

I look at it like this: if Fdev has the forethought to treat the Thargoids like a proper faction (albeit mysterious and inscrutable) with the ability to expand their influence in new systems, or to be forced out of some systems, then this will be a vote of confidence for the future of the game. The bubble doesn't need to burn entirely, but there has to be huge swaths of it that are truly terrifying and risky to visit.

See, there are the thoughts that get my slacks damp.

 

[Iskariot]

Do you want the Thargoids to hit hard and be actually a threat to the Bubble?
Destroying systems and pushing others into anarchy while the Thargoids themselves are hard to fight, even harder without special weapons/tactics?

Or do you just want a NPC Poweplay faction that doesnt really do anything except being a bit harder to combat enemy than average, that also doesnt really impact the rest of the game world except for the 'special permit locked combat sectors'*?


I just hope that "The Thargoids have returned, and yes, you should be very afraid..." isn't just a almost meaningless sentence from an excited Dev who wanted to basically tell us that Soon™:

I hope the the Thargoids are going to be a bit more interesting and complex than just the single minded shooty enemy most seem to be able to come up with.
I hope they will react strongly to provocation and even take systems they consider to be important, but it would make little sense to want to waste resources on conquering the entire human bubble with hundreds of thousands of planets that could be of little interest to them.

As this is not a single campaign game that ends after a few hours of gameplay, but an open ended spacesim in the Elite tradition that will have to be playable for many years to come and be of interest not just to those who want to do combat for ever, but also to those who want to trade or mine or explore etc, having the Thargoids "crush the bubble" would be a stupid thing to do.

 

[Barking_Mad]

My word the doom and gloom is strong in some posts. Whatever happens some people will complain, some will love it.

My only hope is that it adds some dynamism to the existing features, in particular the BGS and maybe power play.

 

[jasonbarron]

See, there are the thoughts that get my slacks damp.

Mine too, friend. Mine too. I'm talking serious space wood.

With the engineers released we're already past that crossroads.

The Thargoids can offer us some small form of redemption after the debacle that is engineers.

 

[Net-FX]

As far as I know, the books are canon. This means that there are two hives - Klaxians and Oresrians, who are embroiled in a civil war, and the Oresrians are undertaking a retreat through our space to use us as meat shields. Think Rocky punching cow carcasses when he's in the training montage section of the film.

Even without the lore, I think FD are smart enough to realise that introducing only pewpew will alienate a big enough contingent of the community for it to be damaging on the whole. The lore allows it, and public statements from the devs suggest that there are going to be more than just opportunities for shooting aliens in the face.

I think whataver happens, it will start around Maia. If the Oresrians are beating a slow retreat, that will give plenty of time for development of both narrative and game over the subsequent months.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were opportunities to interact with Oresrian outposts, possibly even Oresrian factions.

Me likey this very much ... just wish i had the time between work commitments to read up on all this kinda thing, but, I don't so, big thanks for the heads up CMDR

 

[Iskariot]

Mine too, friend. Mine too. I'm talking serious space wood.

The Thargoids can offer us some small form of redemption after the debacle that is engineers.

I do not consider the engineers to be a debacle. They are a welcome addition to the game, but... with a few hickups .
The development of ED is an ongoing process. I hope and bet FD will keep tinkering with the engineers too.

 

[StiTch]

I do not consider the engineers to be a debacle. They are a welcome addition to the game, but... with a few hickups .

It's been a goddamn mess.

I don't think the initial idea is particularly hate-worthy; on the other hand they gave the ol' expectation jimmies a good whack with some very poor choices about its initial implementation, and followed up with a roundhouse kick to the face of common sense by refusing to let go of a few of its worst aspects or improve the balancing properly.

Power creep should always be expected as a game progresses. This went way, way beyond "power creep".

 

[jasonbarron]

I do not consider the engineers to be a debacle. They are a welcome addition to the game, but... with a few hickups .
The development of ED is an ongoing process. I hope and bet FD will keep tinkering with the engineers too.

When they first came out I wasn't into PvP, so I didn't know at that point the engineers had basically ruined it. I enjoyed them right at first because the NPC's had been ramped up in terms of ability, and also given access to weapons mods, too, and that made me start engaging combat for the first time ever. Then the Great Outcry came and the NPC's were nerfed back to previous levels and their tools were taken away. Now, over a year later we're all running around in uber engineered ships while the NPC's remain dialed back and denied access to the mods, and PvP is still rendered a mess. So, I'm giving engineers a C minus, or maybe an outright F

It's been a goddamn mess.

I don't think the initial idea is particularly hate-worthy; on the other hand they gave the ol' expectation jimmies a good whack with some very poor choices about its initial implementation, and followed up with a roundhouse kick to the face of common sense by refusing to let go of a few of its worst aspects or improve the balancing properly.

Power creep should always be expected as a game progresses. This went way, way beyond "power creep".

This went to "outright chaos"

 

[CMDR MrChips]

If my first session after 2.4 releases goes like this, I'll be completely fine with it:

Spoiler

[video=youtube;NJ-xcgBL1mY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ-xcgBL1mY[/video]

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

...

Power creep should always be expected as a game progresses. This went way, way beyond "power creep".

Amen.

 

[Alderius]

I'd just like to see some actual background impact, interaction with the bubble in some way. If FD sticks them in some corner of the galaxy and treats it like a cz then what's the point, what's to be afraid of? I don't see FD actually doing anything that will touch the bubble though, as there will be such a cry from players that they've lost their home system, or station, or faction or trade route, or whatever. Elite: thargoid danger optional.

 

[sb413197]

Another vote for significant impact here. I will be disappointed if all that comes is "thargoid contact" POIs that you can choose to ignore. I want to see border systems around Pleiades burned to the ground. It doesn't have to be an attack on Sol but I would like to see an "alien combat CG" to save systems etc. failure - goodbye base...

 

[NeilF]

When they first came out I wasn't into PvP, so I didn't know at that point the engineers had basically ruined it. I enjoyed them right at first because the NPC's had been ramped up in terms of ability, and also given access to weapons mods, too, and that made me start engaging combat for the first time ever. Then the Great Outcry came and the NPC's were nerfed back to previous levels and their tools were taken away. Now, over a year later we're all running around in uber engineered ships while the NPC's remain dialed back and denied access to the mods, and PvP is still rendered a mess. So, I'm giving engineers a C minus, or maybe an outright F

Yep... The mechanics to take part in The Engineers, while well intentioned, isn't exactly deep and involved is it - farming areas of the game for materials? - but the result to simply create a new unnecessary new upper tier for module performance just needlessly unbalances the game. Worse still, the magic side effects just needlessly creates even more paper-scissor-stone gameplay.

So yes, I agree with you, The Engineers is a poorly designed addition which (IMHO) has damaged the game, and I suspect the damage will never be repaired.

But the questionable design choices for The Engineers isn't the exception, it's almost the rule for two years of developments (IMHO)

 

[Lightspeed]

I like to play this game for relaxation, with some occasional risk attached also, for excitement ... occasionally ... not a war zone in which I have to survive ! I want Elite:Candy Crush [heart]

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

If my first session after 2.4 releases goes like this, I'll be completely fine with it:

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ-xcgBL1mY

I love that intro.

If anything like that happens in ED, I'll buy everything in FDs store.

I'd absolutely love it if our weapons were useless against them. We can still run, but we can't fight them, just hold them off long enough for others to escape.

And much like Freespace, we gradually develop weapons that can harm them, and learn to defend ourselves better.
But ideally, each time we got a milestone, and can't fairly regularly defeat what Thargoid stuff we know of, even more advanced stuff should show up.
Maybe even a new race entirely, that wipes the floor with the thargoids. Lol

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead