Criminal Gameplay needs to be made Viable and Meaningful

[EvE4evah]

Illegal/assymetrical PVP doesn't need to be rewarded or encouraged, because it is it's own reward. The fact that people continue to interdict and blow up Harmless sidewinders and trade vessels, and do so in sufficient numbers as to strike fear/annoyance/rage into the hearts of the community at large; is all you need to know.


The demand for murderhobos, pirates, griefers, and Emergent Content delivery personnel is already being more than met. For *some* reason, even with all the "discouragement", lack of incentives, lack of rewards, etc; *somehow* people manage to soldier on and keep blowing up unshielded traders, new player ships, and unmanned ships parked on planetary surfaces.


I don't know how or why these people keep doing what they do, but clearly there is something about this activity that brings them joy, and *keeps* bringing them joy. So the game must already be balanced around this activity pretty well.


It is weird though, isn't it? So few in-game rewards, such a lack of incentives; and yet, unlike PowerPlay, multicrew, and CQC; there has never been a shortage of willing and eager participants in this activity. Almost makes you wonder if the reward has nothing to do with the game and is somehow special to the type of person who participates in it? But no, that's ridiculous-there is no correlation between the way people behave towards other humans online, and how they behave in real life.


Having ruled that out, the only logical conclusion is that the game already provides sufficient incentives and rewards to encourage criminal pvp, because as we know, there is nothing notably different about the psychology of the criminal PvPer, which means the in-game incentives *must* already be motivating their behavior.

o7 CMDR. I'm at my mobile, so I can't quote each paragraph, but I'll try to mirror them.
Nonconsensual PvP might be its own reward to a few players, but as OP pointed out, the majority of PvPers would rather attack other CMDRs in a high risk, high (in-game) reward system. Supposed it's true that Murderhoboing happens so often that the whole community is in afraid, annoyed or enraged, I'd suggest you actually back up his propositions, they may work.

There is hardly an excess of Murderhobos in Open. Not counting CG systems, a few Engineer systems, some Bug sites and the starter systems, killings are few and far between. The seal clubbing issue is on FDev's hands, actually; it's a no-brainer that even minor aggressions in starter systems should result in Police instakilling the perpetrator. As for Bug sites, it's really awesome that some CMDRs blow up idle ships when people can't care to "dismiss ship", in Open. And about Piracy, you grouping up Pirates with seal clubbers or HoBros is just gross. Pirates are the saints and martyrs of ED, so much time and effort lost when the target suddenly highwakes to MoronSpace (CLogLand), and in the 1% situation where the victim actually complies, 20T of Hydrogen Fuel (OMG I have a Fuel Scoop, plz). In this second paragraph, you also mentioned "unshielded traders", and this right here is what is wrong with this community. People want to play in Open, yet can't care enough to fit a shield for trading.

If by mentioning PP, Multicrew and CQC you're saying that PvP oriented players already have enough playstyle options, please notice: PowerPlay is actually the Devs cheating the PvPers. It's a beautiful interface, much time was put into its development, I know. But the shadow manipulation of the BGS, by players in Solo or Private, or even the tiniest interference of someone grinding a Prismatic or the Fed ranks, is a huge letdown lorewise. To the point that PP is just another roleplay reason for PvP, just like Overlording newbies or destroying all Pythons. Multicrew is a nice thing but impacts PvP reality as much as PvE. And CQC: one single map, very few ships that are far from what is played IRG, no possibility to arrange matches between friends, etc.
(here, I'll pass. I won't comment the try-at-irony comment comparing game behavior with real life behavior because I believe we don't want to reach that dark place. So I'll just affirm that labeling people as psychologically impaired because they gank in online games is cyberbullying and actually Griefing).

OK, sorry for the long and boring post, no intention to antagonize you, but actually to add more thoughts to the discussion. OP's suggestions may have started a bit with the left foot because he tried to use the idle state of mind of HoBros and "give them what to do" as a shot at gathering the complainers' support, but his ideas are indeed what Criminal gameplay needs to flourish. Hell, even the complainers might try these changes themselves. Come to the dark side.

 

[EvE4evah]

I've been watching this thread since its inception and I'd like to put my two cents in by saying the following:

I absolutely agree with the OP in almost every way - Criminal game play should be a legitimate way to "enjoy" the game with criminal specific (and of course, legal specific) exclusive content. Players should be allowed the ability to flip flop between these styles of play (a rogue who decides to go straight, or law abiding citizen who goes dark), and not by flipping a switch between "pirate mode" and "trade mode". Your actions should indicate your career, and the more actions you take towards a specific cause, the better you will be known among people as an advocate of that cause.

The only point of potential disagreement I would have with the OP is the notion of "high reward". Not that I disagree that it should be high reward - it definitely must be high reward - I just don't want those rewards to be limited to credits. Any type of credit-bound game play will get stale when people have billions to splurge. We need to give more depth.

I feel we can't really discuss this without going a bit into the PVP component of the game. A long time ago, I proposed a "fix" for the crime system in the game, because in my opinion, all "mindless pvp" as I like to call it stems from a sense of boredom and a desire for more action packed game play. It is due to this fact that people kill without mercy, just for laughs. Most "PvPers" aren't interested in fair fights of equal skill and instead opt to ambush or gank people who are easy prey.

The proposal I outlined on these forums that I refer to was to fix the entire pyramid of PvP (as I saw it, at least) from the ground up. This meant you needed to enhance trade first (to better populate Open), which would then feed into enhanced piracy, which would ultimately feed into enhanced bounty hunting.

This might not seem so connected to some of the readers of this post, but please stay with me for a little while longer. My idea is as follows:

Every "profession" gets a dedicated progress bar for the various types of game play that you can have in Elite. The Pilot's Federation is the governing body of these professions, and they essentially work as ranks within ranks split between trading, exploration and combat - Instead of giving you ranks as we know them, a higher progress bar gives you reputation among the people within that circle and the higher you go the more renowned you become as a professional of that type of game play. Some of these can be mutually exclusive for lore reasons like, for example, trade and piracy.

Allow me to get specific.

I picture the piracy progression bar to scale up by ton of stolen commodity. This breaks the idea of "useless" cargo being pirated, because 1 ton of fish is just as profitable as 1 ton of gold since we aren't linking it to credits, but rather to reputation among the piracy circles. If you steal a specific number of tonnage, you get access to pirate-specific perks. Decals, paint jobs, and more "black markets" to conduct your shady business. Eventually you unlock the Elite version of a centralized piracy hub. An asteroid base that nobody can find unless invited to. This base provides specific perks, similar to how Founders world works now.

You build a reputation as a great enough pirate, and that will land you on the boards of the bounty hunters...

For the bounty hunters, these guys abide by the law and increase their reputation by killing wanted individuals, NPCs or players. They get to work with the various law enforcement agencies of various systems and super powers to get bounty-hunter specific missions, with good pay outs and similar rewards to the piracy idea above. Most importantly, they get access to the "Hunters Board" which is a specialized version of the mission board system exclusive to the most notable bounty hunters in the galaxy. This board gives them mission spawns to assassinate the most notable pirates in the galaxy, for a huge bounty pay out. The mission gives clues as to the last known location of various pirate lords (who are actually players) and that data only updates when that pirate gets scanned. Emergent game play.

For trading, you can earn enough reputation that you get a notification when specific systems go into negative states (famine/outbreak, etc) like some sort of "help be Obi Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope" type message that offers massive payouts for these guys if they help those systems in a timely manner. This of course is also fed to the pirates, who target those systems more, which then feeds into the hunters, who go to preserve the peace.

For exploration, you can have different subsections of deep space explorers, with varying mission types between passenger missions, anomaly discovery, or material research. These guys essentially choose branches of exploration they enjoy, getting heads up messages about randomized derelict ships that lead to more discoveries and puzzles to solve, or a specific request to go map out a particular region of space.

The possibilities are almost endless. All factions get decals and paint jobs and other in game perks that allow them to fly the colors of their trade.

Crime and Punishment must be more heavily incorporated into the game to keep Elite relevant and open more possibilities. With that comes harsher punishment systems for people who just want to be murderers. It's perfectly acceptable game play, but the consequences are severe in game and not credit related at all. Things like stopping them from docking at all high/medium security large stations would be really cool. Feeding their data as murderers into the bounty board I mentioned earlier would also be super fun for both hunter and hunted.

All of this stems from the same core issue that the game has: We need more specific avenues of game play. Blazing our own path doesn't really mean much if all paths simply lead to more credits.

Awesome ideas too.

 

[Kethriss]

Easy turbo.

I agree that it should be a viable path in the game. However, I disagree that it should be made equal to the legal paths in terms of profitability. The punishment and risks should ALWAYS outweigh the reward when it comes to being a criminal. The thrill of the crime is part of the juice, part of the lifestyle/career path. You can't have a meaningful crime mechanic without severe consequences and you can't have meaningful governmental mechanics without having deterrents to crime. Now, in game the threat of being incarcerated as a consequence/deterrent isn't a viable mechanic so low profit margin becomes the trade off.

I can see where higher reward is perhaps a viable argument for gameplay but the penalties still need to be harsh or you end up with GTA in space. The current system sucks and is too light on criminals. You want the death sentence in 12 systems? Cool, but expect to only be able to move freely in anarchy systems and even then you'll have Bounty Hunters all over you. You enter a system with security because the job reward is high? Cool, but now you need to be slick because you can't dock and will be hounded by cops, the military, and bounty hunters if you're scanned.

Organized crime being big business is true but a moot point when you consider that organized crime is a pyramid scheme. The guys taking the biggest risks, meaning the guys doing the actual acts in everything you listed out, are getting paid the least. Its the fat cat at the top of the pyramid who's getting rich not the guys doing the dirty work. The guys doing the work have the same "get rich and be your own boss" carrot dangled in front of them that the Herbalifes and MaryKays use on their people. Until there's a mechanic in game that allows us to replicate this you're basically stuck being the little fish.

Yes you can: The age old "Light vs Dark" where anarchy systems controlled by crime rings are pushing against high sec system controlled by governments that have assigned anticrime task forces.

Already suggested that, you're just repeating what I already said to do because you want to sound smart.

Once again, this is a video game. It is not real life. And your retorts are moot when you consider that we already have a system in-game for that: the reputation system.

I seriously do not get what is so hard about understanding the concept of suggesting EXPANSION OF GAMEPLAY. ​No duh we don't have all the mechanics in the game to work these things, that's why you add them in.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Im curious, how many of you are complaining about this from a private group?

It wont effect you either way.

No one robs a bank for no reason. Being a criminal has more risk than just running cargo.

The police are after you, bounty hunters are after you. Look at star wars, and star trek. Good and bad guys in both.

Or they could both be good guys or both be bad guys. And fighting over territory. But either way, AarkTheDragon is right.

Every day I see posts about "There is no reason in this game to kill someone else". Now people are asking for reason and you guys are shooting it down.

You guys cant have your cake and eat it too.

And if you're in solo / private group and like it there. It wont effect you. So dont bother.

 

[Virandar]

Allow me to get specific.

I picture the piracy progression bar to scale up by ton of stolen commodity. This breaks the idea of "useless" cargo being pirated, because 1 ton of fish is just as profitable as 1 ton of gold since we aren't linking it to credits, but rather to reputation among the piracy circles. If you steal a specific number of tonnage, you get access to pirate-specific perks. Decals, paint jobs, and more "black markets" to conduct your shady business. Eventually you unlock the Elite version of a centralized piracy hub. An asteroid base that nobody can find unless invited to. This base provides specific perks, similar to how Founders world works now.

You build a reputation as a great enough pirate, and that will land you on the boards of the bounty hunters...

And this is extremely easy to abuse, which is why it won't happen. Would you like to pirate me off 720T or biowaste or fish? We just have to find a nice station with a steady supply of cheap goods, I'll load 720T of it into my cutter and off we go. We can rinse and repeat all day long. Oh, sorry, more than 720T, I can replace the shields with another cargo rack. When you build up your pirate reputation and unlock decals, paint jobs and black markets, we can swap roles.

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

Im curious, how many of you are complaining about this from a private group?

It wont effect you either way.

No one robs a bank for no reason. Being a criminal has more risk than just running cargo.

The police are after you, bounty hunters are after you. Look at star wars, and star trek. Good and bad guys in both.

Or they could both be good guys or both be bad guys. And fighting over territory. But either way, AarkTheDragon is right.

Every day I see posts about "There is no reason in this game to kill someone else". Now people are asking for reason and you guys are shooting it down.

You guys cant have your cake and eat it too.

And if you're in solo / private group and like it there. It wont effect you. So dont bother.

Well Elite is already an Elitist game with some pretty toxic vocal community, plus devs dont really care about this side of gameplay... you just have to look how they tread it... we have a BUG that was introduced at 2.1 and we already passed 2.2 and 2.3 and 2.4 Beta1 and the bug still there... they hardly care about this facete off the game....

Also, see that anarchy have security forces... also planets with navy vessels that are either anarchy or unpopulated. Frontier as a WHOLE dont care about criminal activity in their games neither want to expand it because they DONT WANT TO. the game is PG 13 , this kind of stuff is too dark for these people and their "rating" ... So they went the high road and try to avoid at maximun getting the darker side of the game out by giving it problems and bugs , and not fixing then to avoid it from growing... they dont want "kids" on their Xbox and PS4 to become pirates or robers.... cause this would give then lawsuits to fight.... 'cause a 13 PG game cant have this kind of content.


shame on us for believing it would grow anyway... so lets keep the merry-go-around utopia 1% bad guys game , with 0% incentive on the activity.

As a pirate , undestanding this means very clear that this is already decided BY THE DEVS, from the moment they gave 0 frecks to the cargo bug, and the 0 freck to the refinery ships ultra cool down...

Well whatever i put this out of my chest. lets see what holy grail feature 3.0 will bring us... but i can guarantee you this is not for the criminals and dark side of the game.

 

[smiths121]

About the only PvE crimonal activuty that has a decent reward is killing system authority, and only if your after the influence effect as reward, and the controlling faction is not anarchy. Having said that, I keep meaning to put a cargo scanner on a shpi and see what those T-9 with vulture escorts, and curious text concersations other side of the bublle to Pleiades are carrying. I suspect not as valuable as I have worked up in my head.

In terms of PvP crime, ii was marginal as a career path at launch, and arguably has got worst with new versions. Its hard to have piracy (the most obvious meaningful PvP criminal interaction), ), when a set goal of the plyer interaction mechanic is you cannot force someone into a fight if they do not want it. I think this stated goal (is in the kickstarter video where Braben talks about PvP being rare but meaningful) is thr thing that hinders thr criminal careers hard to implement. Perhaps the Karma system will allow a revisit.

Simon

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Well Elite is already an Elitist game with some pretty toxic vocal community, plus devs dont really care about this side of gameplay... you just have to look how they tread it... we have a BUG that was introduced at 2.1 and we already passed 2.2 and 2.3 and 2.4 Beta1 and the bug still there... they hardly care about this facete off the game....

Also, see that anarchy have security forces... also planets with navy vessels that are either anarchy or unpopulated. Frontier as a WHOLE dont care about criminal activity in their games neither want to expand it because they DONT WANT TO. the game is PG 13 , this kind of stuff is too dark for these people and their "rating" ... So they went the high road and try to avoid at maximun getting the darker side of the game out by giving it problems and bugs , and not fixing then to avoid it from growing... they dont want "kids" on their Xbox and PS4 to become pirates or robers.... cause this would give then lawsuits to fight.... 'cause a 13 PG game cant have this kind of content.


shame on us for believing it would grow anyway... so lets keep the merry-go-around utopia 1% bad guys game , with 0% incentive on the activity.

As a pirate , undestanding this means very clear that this is already decided BY THE DEVS, from the moment they gave 0 frecks to the cargo bug, and the 0 freck to the refinery ships ultra cool down...

Well whatever i put this out of my chest. lets see what holy grail feature 3.0 will bring us... but i can guarantee you this is not for the criminals and dark side of the game.

Huh, they are balancing around weapons and how they effect other commanders. If they didnt. They wouldnt be working on heat cannons, and the numerous other problems in the past. They certainly are balancing it around player interaction. Grom Missiles, Reverb Cascade torps. Have fun farming with those in a conflict zone.

If they didnt intend on player interaction. They would have removed it and actually call it griefing. Which they dont.

Literally everything you said is wrong

All this pg13 nonsense is a non issue. We are supposed to be shooting each other.

I cant tell are you a troll or something? I hope so.

 

[Stealthie]

Every day I see posts about "There is no reason in this game to kill someone else". Now people are asking for reason and you guys are shooting it down.

You guys cant have your cake and eat it too.

And if you're in solo / private group and like it there. It wont effect you. So dont bother.

Speaking for myself, the skepticism is more about the implementation than the ideology.

PvPers like the idea of combat with other players.
This idea seems to, basically, revolve around the idea of PvPers being rewarded for combat with other players and being"punished" for doing naughty things by... combat with other players.

That seems kind of light on the "consequences" side of things to me.
As I've already said, it's kind of like telling a fat kid that if he eats too many chicken nuggets you'll "punish" him by giving him a cheeseburger.

I think most people are okay with the idea of adding content as a means of making "outlaw" another legitimate gameplay style.
The trick is to enact proper consequences for unlawful actions - stuff like revoking docking rights at individual stations, systems and (in extremis) entire groups of systems as well as having a more aggressive SysSec response in law-abiding systems.

All of which is, of course, contingent of FDev thinking it's actually worthwhile and that "outlaw" players will actually embrace any new gameplay rather than carrying on exactly as they currently are, by just attacking random ships for the lulz.

 

[sovapid]

I don't so much like these ideas for the "risk/punishment" side:

Actual security responses from cops that can actually hurt you, denial of docking privileges, forcing criminals to stick to lowsec and anarchy systems, having large bounties

Because it is just more PVE stuff.

I do like this:

being in open play putting you on a galactic most wanted list and making it easier to track you, stuff like that.

because it would result in meaningful PVP interactions.

 

[babelfisch]

To those who think FDEV doesn't care for criminal activities and PvP because they didn't add many mechanics to improve it...
How much did they add to exploring? Mining? Trading? Bounty hunting is the same since launch. There aren't any new mechanics. This isn't exclusive to criminal activities. If you missed it, that's the reason some people constantly complain about the game.
Talking about FDEV only listening to PvE care bears or how they abandoned piracy is ridiculous and just shows how much you don't understand.
Sure, OP has a lot of good suggestions. Add all of them to the game. But it would be nice if the other professions would get something similar. Don't put 95% development time on features that only interest 5% of the player base. This would be reasonable if piracy and PvP would be in a worse state than the other professions. It isn't. You just believe that because your selfish attitude doesn't allow you to see the whole picture.
And when I say "you" I am not talking about someone specific, just about the usual arguments that are used in these discussions.

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

Huh, they are balancing around weapons and how they effect other commanders. If they didnt. They wouldnt be working on heat cannons, and the numerous other problems in the past. They certainly are balancing it around player interaction. Grom Missiles, Reverb Cascade torps. Have fun farming with those in a conflict zone.

If they didnt intend on player interaction. They would have removed it and actually call it griefing. Which they dont.

Literally everything you said is wrong

All this pg13 nonsense is a non issue. We are supposed to be shooting each other.

I cant tell are you a troll or something? I hope so.

NOT player interaction, Criminal activities!

Player interaction is not regulated by PG...

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

About the only PvE crimonal activuty that has a decent reward is killing system authority, and only if your after the influence effect as reward, and the controlling faction is not anarchy. Having said that, I keep meaning to put a cargo scanner on a shpi and see what those T-9 with vulture escorts, and curious text concersations other side of the bublle to Pleiades are carrying. I suspect not as valuable as I have worked up in my head.

In terms of PvP crime, ii was marginal as a career path at launch, and arguably has got worst with new versions. Its hard to have piracy (the most obvious meaningful PvP criminal interaction), ), when a set goal of the plyer interaction mechanic is you cannot force someone into a fight if they do not want it. I think this stated goal (is in the kickstarter video where Braben talks about PvP being rare but meaningful) is thr thing that hinders thr criminal careers hard to implement. Perhaps the Karma system will allow a revisit.

Simon

T-9 with vulture escorts on those POI hardly give 200k if you actually get EVERY single cargo out of it. dont even bother.

PvP piracy is bnot meant to be profitable. because of logging and every single thing in game.. we just ask for low cargo amount to keep player on the open and not solo.

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

To those who think FDEV doesn't care for criminal activities and PvP because they didn't add many mechanics to improve it...
How much did they add to exploring? Mining? Trading? Bounty hunting is the same since launch. There aren't any new mechanics. This isn't exclusive to criminal activities. If you missed it, that's the reason some people constantly complain about the game.
Talking about FDEV only listening to PvE care bears or how they abandoned piracy is ridiculous and just shows how much you don't understand.
Sure, OP has a lot of good suggestions. Add all of them to the game. But it would be nice if the other professions would get something similar. Don't put 95% development time on features that only interest 5% of the player base. This would be reasonable if piracy and PvP would be in a worse state than the other professions. It isn't. You just believe that because your selfish attitude doesn't allow you to see the whole picture.
And when I say "you" I am not talking about someone specific, just about the usual arguments that are used in these discussions.

Never said anything for they dont care about PvP!!

Yeah I know how the other parts of the game are right now... but at least they have WAY less bugs... have you ever tried doing a pirate mission??? Most of the time it's just impossible without a big 3 ship.

Have you ever heard of Cargo bug? have you ever heard of the G10 mod Fsd Cooldown that traders got on 2.2? Lack of anything that can make profit beyond Low temp diamonds( that are traped behind the G10 Mod cooldown) ?

Well at least the other game "modes" actually can be played at it's extents correctly i don't see any major bug on those. But i do agree that any career in elite is just as bad in term os quantity as piracy.

ON A SIDE NOTE.

The piracy is only 5% because of how it's treated by the game. it's LOW LOW LOW paying, if piracy actually had the same payment as trading or BH i bet the career would be more interesting to many more players.

So piracy is on the foot note on the game togheter with multicrew and CQC BECAUSE FDEV mentality toward these guys , so it's all Fdev fault.

 

[Khazid]

Killing clean players for the sake of it is not criminal gameplay and should not by itself be rewarded, unless there is a reason. This reason behind the murder is what should provide pay. Is it pirating? Is it opposing powerplay interests? Is it an assassination contract (yup, these are not available...) from an upset faction in one of the systems the target player was BHing?

Just because I like PvP and engage any target available, I shouldn't be able to cash in automatically. Targets that I have nothing to gain from, should remain as they are and provide no reward, only punishment in the event of murder.

On the other hand if there was a game mechanic within which I may have to engage in PvP with an otherwise clean commander, then by all means, engage.

The thing is CMDR pirating yields little gain, powerplay is largely dead and offers no serious mechanism that would reward PvP (e.g. Special missions to assassinate any CMDR of the pilots federation that is registered with an opposing force) and I cannot think of any other in game reason to engage PvP for the rewards.

I love the game but FDev have done a very poor job in this, providing resons to PvP. We need true reason to PvP and create a "cutthroat galaxy". It should not be a cutthroat galaxy due to psychos killing mindlessly. In a real universe any such attempt would result in losing pilots license, ship, imprisonment and basically what would be the equivalent of a life ban from touching a ship again. This is not a cutthroat galaxy, its a "lets play cowboys and indians, or psychos and traders...

A true "wild west" cuttroat galaxy should give reason to the sherrif to kill, reason to the bandit to steal and kill, reason to the land owner to take law in his hands. Otherwise it just feels like a futile effort to convince us that this game is different, it is dangerous, it is hardcore.

Despite the above I still enjoy the PvE side of things with the little flashes of PvP danger here and there even if there is nothing to gain from the second part, or anything that would make a PvP engagement believable, with moral and logical reasons to engage. I mean I can pirate a whole day and make as much as one trade loop in 12 minutes. Why do I pirate? I ll become a trader instead.

Maybe 3.0 or 3.1 update is named "Reasons to PvP".

 

[OnTheMinute]

When I'm playing as a pirate I'm usually doing missions for a criminal faction. They will give piracy missions that require you to pirate a specific ship and the rewards will come from completing the mission as opposed to just selling the loot you stole. I feel like this is the only way to make actual money from pirating. Doing pirating missions.

 

[babelfisch]

Never said anything for they dont care about PvP!!

Yeah I know how the other parts of the game are right now... but at least they have WAY less bugs... have you ever tried doing a pirate mission??? Most of the time it's just impossible without a big 3 ship.

Have you ever heard of Cargo bug? have you ever heard of the G10 mod Fsd Cooldown that traders got on 2.2? Lack of anything that can make profit beyond Low temp diamonds( that are traped behind the G10 Mod cooldown) ?

Well at least the other game "modes" actually can be played at it's extents correctly i don't see any major bug on those. But i do agree that any career in elite is just as bad in term os quantity as piracy.

I remember the bug were all explorers lost their exploration data. I also remember the day they added shield bypassing cargo hatch breakers or FSD cancelling missiles. I also know that most CMDRs will not survive a CZ in a Cobra. And that a high threat USS can be dangerous for lone wolves.

ON A SIDE NOTE.

The piracy is only 5% because of how it's treated by the game. it's LOW LOW LOW paying, if piracy actually had the same payment as trading or BH i bet the career would be more interesting to many more players.

Bounty hunters can't play PvP at all because bounties are either too low or they got rid of it by using the sidewinder exploit. And the moment FDEV announced a fix they started to lobby against it.

So piracy is on the foot note on the game togheter with multicrew and CQC BECAUSE FDEV mentality toward these guys , so it's all Fdev fault.

I'd say it's the other way around. Piracy is your favourite playstyle because the other professions are even more boring

I am not against better profits and mechanics for pirates (both for PvE and PvP), but please don't act like everyone else would receive more love than you do.

 

[Goose4291]

. I also know that most CMDRs will not survive a CZ in a Cobra.

I genuinely cant believe that. I and my clumsy mutton hands make quite a few creds in CZs with my Adder.

Admittedly I have to withdraw from time to time, particularly for reloads, but you can't always hold the upper hand IMHO.

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

Killing clean players for the sake of it is not criminal gameplay and should not by itself be rewarded, unless there is a reason.

That is exactly the thing here....

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

That is exactly the thing here....

How the hell do you expect people to get wanted? Killing a clean NPC is okay? Killing a Clean Commander is not? Thats what the wanted status is for. Good lord some of the people on these forums are a dense as a neutron star.