Star Citizen Thread v6

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Me neither, not without breaking some promises. I can only imagine subscriptions to keep the servers running, more concent sales, or maybe like ED, sale of cosmetics, although no idea if that will be enough.

On the other hand, we were led to believe that release would be feature complete at one point, while at the same time saying development would continue after and.... erm... now we might be looking at an MVP. I doubt backers would be happy with paying for updates whenver they happen after all the money they have invested.

There is the possibility of some extra money coming in from sales of later episodes of SQ42, although depends on how much they can charge for those, and how many players will be interested in it.

I think they might be thinking that once the game is released they will make a lot of new sales. But considering the genre, i guess a majority of people who might be interested have alerady pledged, especially considering all the marketing that has led people to believe (time and again) that release is close, just around the corner....

I think that is completely wrong. There are tons of people like me who find it unfathomable to give a company money just in good faith they will produce something for you. SC devs have much to worry but finding potential customers if the game comes out and its good is the least of their worries.

The vast majority of people have heard of SC but have no interest on the drama and if one day comes out and it's good they will consider buying it. If not they won't care one bit.
 
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I think that is completely wrong. There are tons of people like me who find it unfathomable to give a company money just in good faith they will produce something for you. SC devs have much to worry but finding potential customers if the game comes out and its good is the least of their worries.

The vast majority of people have heard of SC but have no interest on the drama and if one day comes out and it's good they will consider buying it. If not they won't care one bit.

You might be right. I might even buy it if its ever released, but there again, i might be part of their target demographic. But looking at the game they are trying to produce, i'm not sure it will be for me. The flight model still seems wrong, and while they might have some interesting gameplay and mechanics, the whole thing seems like its trying to be too real. At the end of the day, i want a fun game, not a virtual life.
 
I've never liked the "look" of the flight model, having never played it but watched many videos of it in action. It seems to amount to moving the reticle over the enemy with the mouse and pressing the button. I have heard they have improved things so that flying with HOTAS is more enjoyable but I won't know for sure till I get my grubby mitts on the game. 3.0 was always going to be my entry point but this, disappointingly, seems to keep getting pushed back further and further.

Doesn't CR know that I want to play his game?!? ;)
 
Just browsing through the stretch goals, and a few things struck me for the first time.

1) New ships apparently cost 1 million to make if the stretch goals are to be believed

2) They initially said 40 systems, then added another 10 with a stretch goal that would add 250,000 to the funding. At 60 million they got up to 100 star systems. But wait, they had individual stretch goals earlier to add single systems, all of those coming in at a cool 1 million each. So, 1 million per ship, 1 million per system..... if that is what was required, then 100 systems and how many ships? Over 50 now? That would put the development cost of just those at over 150 million! Either true, and then SC is in big trouble, or backers gave more money than was required to achieve the work, in other words, CIG were greedy, taking more than necessary... so much for greedy publishers.
It was already quite obvious back then that $ amounts for stretch goals were completely loony and not based upon serious development docs and costs analysis.
 
I've never liked the "look" of the flight model, having never played it but watched many videos of it in action. It seems to amount to moving the reticle over the enemy with the mouse and pressing the button. I have heard they have improved things so that flying with HOTAS is more enjoyable but I won't know for sure till I get my grubby mitts on the game. 3.0 was always going to be my entry point but this, disappointingly, seems to keep getting pushed back further and further.

Doesn't CR know that I want to play his game?!? ;)

Calling it a "flight model" is being generous. It feels like you're playing an FPS with a noclip cheat.

It makes me laugh that they talk about building full scale planets packed with content and a million other complex things when something as fundamental as the flight controls in this space game are a complete trash fire.
 
Calling it a "flight model" is being generous. It feels like you're playing an FPS with a noclip cheat.

It makes me laugh that they talk about building full scale planets packed with content and a million other complex things when something as fundamental as the flight controls in this space game are a complete trash fire.

EXACTLY.
All it needs to be said about their "flight model".

I just love how they're fooling uninformed people by showcasing HOTAS setups in all their videos, booths, etc.

P.S.
LOL I just got information to try typing "Star citizen will" in Google. It's frightening how Google can predict the future :D

Image_001.png
 
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When does all the press stuff happen at Gamescom? Today and tomorrow? Should be some articles about it relatively soon?

There seems to be teasers appearing on the reddit at the moment

Twitch TV suggests
Live from the Gamescom Showfloor (8/23 @ 10am UTC)


Either way I have just delivered Palin his resins and it is 11pm here so I am off to bed
 
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Imagine if, after release, the game immediately goes free to play! :D

That...would horribly enough probably work and gain them more money instead of selling a single package and have people buying ingame cash.

- Increase cost for all components and ships by 1/3 - 1/2 - 1/1 depending on No package / SC package / SQ42+SC Package
- UEE credits for cash as planned
- Ships over a certain size requires permits depending on crew size (1 permit per additional crew member)
- Sell permits for cash similar to purchasing credits
- Package owners gains free permits for all ships
- New concept ships arriving later as new concept sales
- Upgrade older ship designs as the older hulls are modernized for a small cash fee
- Sell paintjobs for cash (works for E:D)

Etc...

The list could be made extremely long and they would probably earn a lot on it.

I mean, just look on E:D, their vanity store works very well.
 
That...would horribly enough probably work and gain them more money instead of selling a single package and have people buying ingame cash.

- Increase cost for all components and ships by 1/3 - 1/2 - 1/1 depending on No package / SC package / SQ42+SC Package
- UEE credits for cash as planned
- Ships over a certain size requires permits depending on crew size (1 permit per additional crew member)
- Sell permits for cash similar to purchasing credits
- Package owners gains free permits for all ships
- New concept ships arriving later as new concept sales
- Upgrade older ship designs as the older hulls are modernized for a small cash fee
- Sell paintjobs for cash (works for E:D)

Etc...

The list could be made extremely long and they would probably earn a lot on it.

I mean, just look on E:D, their vanity store works very well.

Not gonna work due to the fact that f2players mostly can't comprehend sim games, even something just vaguely sim lite like sc.
 
Not gonna work due to the fact that f2players mostly can't comprehend sim games, even something just vaguely sim lite like sc.
Not sure why you would denigrate an entire group of people that most likely cuts across many demographics but sure, go for it. :rolleyes:

What I would say, regarding F2P, is that developers are often then "encouraged" to change the gameplay in such a way to promote the purchases of certain items for real money. For example, the most obvious would be artificially lower the amount of accrued XP, credits or other tradeable item which can then be "fixed" by purchasing some kind of booster. Perhaps the in-game reason could be some permit for some in-game entity that gives you a bonus on certain mercenary jobs.

Then arguments like "Well, you don't need to buy these boosters....", and other such empty excuses, come out of the woodwork, which are usually not applicable as the in-game grind becomes so horrendous that the only way to squeeze any enjoyment out of it and make some kind of progress is to give them money. Some people still can't see this no matter how many times you explain it. F2P quickly becomes Fee-to-Play, eventually morphing into Pay-to-Win. :mad:
 
Not gonna work due to the fact that f2players mostly can't comprehend sim games, even something just vaguely sim lite like sc.

Sim master race hey? Nice work dude, that's not an idiotic generalization at all.

Otherwise yeah I don't see this going F2P, I think CIG would baulk at the idea of giving users access to content for free, those access weekends notwithstanding.
 
Not sure why you would denigrate an entire group of people that most likely cuts across many demographics but sure, go for it. :rolleyes:

Well, to a point he is not wrong.

The simpler and easier a F2P game is to get into and to hook a player the easier it is to gain money.

Making it complicated can give it a treshold that makes them loose money.

Some people still can't see this no matter how many times you explain it. F2P quickly becomes Fee-to-Play, eventually morphing into Pay-to-Win. :mad:

Path of Exile avoids this by simply having quality of life solutions.

- Additional inventory tabs to collect loot (this is rather required, at least 4-10 instead of what you start with)

but everything else are basically cosmetic MTX's.
 
It has been possible to deduce that the headline features shown since mid 2015 are standalone r&d tech.

Since none of the stuff except for Star Marine (which again is nothing like the videos we were shown prior to its release) surfaced on the PU so far I concur with that statement and also think that if CiG is unable to show extensive footage from 3.0 gameplay on Gamescon they simply dont have any. "Soon" and "in a few weeks" sound as lame as they are by now and I think CiG got more then enough time now to produce anything. If they didnt maybe its time to swallow the bitter pill (you know....reality) and give up on this project. Star Citizen is an ambitious and grand vision and theres nobody who wouldnt want to have it in his/her hands and play it....sadly, I dont think CRoberts or CiG is the right man/company for it. In their 6th year of development they have burned through an amount of funding that would have resulted in several AAA games from other companies or enabled an untold number of Indie developers to progress with their own games many of which have as much potential (and also show it) as Star Citizen AND created one of the most toxic communities to date.

Great game....bad company.

Well if they get 3.0 out in, say, a few weeks - fine. I can live with that delay.

But thats what they gonna tell us anyway. This has been the story for years now. They keep covering ground by going forward a couple weeks at a time handling and adjusting the community expectations all the while. Will you be really appeased or calmed if CiG told you this weekend that 3.0 is "a few weeks away"? Why would you trust them on that?


<<flipping past the white knights stuff>>


I suspect 3.0 is nowhere near ready for release judging from what I can see in the burn down ATV's. It's obvious that everything they compile into the build breaks something previously working...but if it does appear in the state I think it's in sometime in September, backers will be pulling the plug anyway once they play it.

Depending on your personal view on the project its pretty much "nowhere ready" (optimistic) or "doesnt exist" (pessimistic) which is sad in itself. The only people who really think CiG will come through with a polished (that was the reason for all the delays so far...yes?) and content-rich 3.0 patch are the ones who have no idea about game development or dont follow the game at all....while calling everybody else clueless of course. I remember an internal leak years ago, this was probably early 2015 or even before that...I cant say exactly anymore....where an ex-employee told that it was complete chaos inside. Documentation was either non-existant or was done under various rulesets meaning that 2 people were unable to work on the same task without heavy exchange of information which was extremely time-consuming. Task rotation was as bad back then as it is now and half-finished things had to be scratched and started from zero often because of the lacking documentation. As developers came and went in a high frequency simply going to another desk and asking a few questions was often impossible (which is the reason for a good documentation).

Needless to say as everybody was working on different isolated modules all that was ever produced was indeed isolated material which often couldnt be matched or paired due to incompatibilities or bad communication. Great stuff for demo or propaganda videos but of course none of it made it into the PU. Due to the lack of documentation the developers also worked on a completely different version of the game then the PU and were unable to patch new stuff into the life server without breaking stuff. Nobody knew why. That was when they finally brought in the Cryengine people to do the work for them and they released some of the hilarious stuff like "water in space" and were supposed to bring the project back on track. While it seems that these people did do their job and enabled CiG to stay afloat it didnt really help with the production schedule or overall progress of the game.

Of course all of this was never confirmed or proven but it came from different sources and while pretty much nobody ever talks about this anymore I remember it very much and have the picture of a shiny and tasty apple in front of me riddled with a rotten core where maggots are wiggling. Maybe I should find a picture about it edit:scratch that, the pictures I found were really detestable /yuck. I dont believe anymore that this foundation is able to provide a quality product on par with the advertising made in 2012 or 2014. I follow the project because its fascinating to watch an iceberg break off or a mountainslide going downhills. Both things are dangerous and potentially deadly but you cannot turn away like a deer standing still staring into the approaching cars lights. By now CiG doesnt really surprise me anymore (well, not in a good way anyway), it simply confirms my theories and fears.

I cannot understand why the continuous failing to match dates and ongoing delays result in the company not giving any anymore and how some specific ultras can keep that reason up as a good thing for the no-show that is Star Citizen and blaming the backers at large for it. Its not the backers making CRoberts advertising stuff or giving dates and its not the backers making him break his words. Its not the backers who hinder SCs progress and are responsible for the lack of content and quality. Its not the backers expecting the impossible. Its always, in every single instance Chris Roberts either through malicious intent (scam) or because of personal incompetence. And if you are a nice person and chose incompetence then you need to realize that this guy has been given so many chances by now and so much leeway that it resembles a crime to let him keep going and not call him out on his failures.

Notacult.

Just browsing through the stretch goals, and a few things struck me for the first time. <snip>

First, the stretch goals dont apply anymore because Star Citizen is a completely different game since 2014 and the great upheaval but I understand where you are coming from. In hindsight the list of stretch goals and their connected monetary values read like a dream list made up by a completely detached and clueless individual. The rate of progress hinted by the jumps in content is really fantastic and only for a meager million dollars. Oh how different and ugly reality looks like where several millions of dollar cannot produce a single system or 1 ship anymore. If anything going through the old stretch goals will only uncover how impossible Star Citizen was from the get go. We are simply going through the motions trying to realize the truth that was hanging in front of us in 2012...just nobody saw it. And the people who did were banned and witchhunted for speaking out.....yes....I m actually hinting at a specific individual here :D

Chris Roberts was selling a dream in 2012 and he had actually no idea nor the expertise how to do anything he promised he would. 5 Years have passed since then (6 if you care to believe CRoberts.....LOL....sorry) and I cannot see any kind of improvement in his skills or understanding nor the games potential or foundation other then becoming the ugliest failure in computer game history. Daikatana wont even be a blip on the screen next to this monstrosity. Videos about CRoberts not understanding simple physics or failing hard at his own game were taken as funny when they happened but I think only very few people realized back then what these things really meant for the game as a whole.

When does all the press stuff happen at Gamescom? Today and tomorrow? Should be some articles about it relatively soon?

I believe we will see private peoples footage earlier then written articles. Apart from the obvious shill pieces of course which will probably appear with a timestamp from last month ^^
 
Path of Exile avoids this by simply having quality of life solutions.

- Additional inventory tabs to collect loot (this is rather required, at least 4-10 instead of what you start with)
Bold emphasis is mine. You're just proving my point. If what they offer you for free is just restrictive enough that buying their addons for real money makes this more bearable, then they may have avoided pay to win but that's it. The game was altered to promote the cash shop or whatever they call it.

Can I see SC going down that route? To be honest, as someone else pointed out weeks ago, I can't see how this game is going to continue after release as everyone that was likely to buy it probably already will have. So where is their revenue going to come from to keep servers going, pay for staff etc.
 
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Bold emphasis is mine. You're just proving my point. If what they offer you for free is just restrictive enough that buying their addons for real money makes this more bearable, then they may have avoided pay to win but that's it. The game was altered to promote the cash shop or whatever they call it.

Can I see SC going down that route? To be honest, as someone else pointed out weeks ago, I can't see how this game is going to continue after release as everyone that was likely to buy it probably already will have. So where is their revenue going to come from to keep servers going, pay for staff etc.

Well, it CAN be done without extra tabs for inventory but one cannot be a pack rat if one does.
 
Yeah. So in the context of SC, and attempting to stay on topic, what else could CIG do to promote a cash shop? Cosmetics would be the easy one, although their designers seem to take their own sweet time finishing off the ships they have to date without throwing in added complexity like skins, or ship kits a la Frontier. That would be fine if it ended there.

But seeing how CIG operate I would be surprised if it ended there and that's where we get in to dangerous territory. The kind of thing where the game could end up being fundamentally changed to promote their sale.
 
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