Could we possibly change insurance to function more akin to reality?

[Omikron777]

Ok, so I'm sure this probably comes up quite a bit after someone suffers a major loss, but it seems like it could be prevented so much more easily by modifying how insurance works.

Instead of paying a percentage at the time of destruction or taking a capped loan & paying the difference out of pocket at the time of destruction, why not offer a recurring lesser percentage to obtain coverage, or a pre-pay percentage as coverage for a period of time. This really doesn't become apparent until you have a ship that costs over 1 Million to replace when you are destroyed; something I recently discovered how this is virtually game ending.

I had finally enough to acquire a dropship and was progressing along rather quickly once I had the ship. I was running missions and upgrading constantly, so my 14 Million credit ship soon became valued closer to 20 Million. I had just upgraded my dropship to where it the frame shift drive was rated 'A', & thrusters & power plant were rated 'B'. It left me with a balance of 40k credits (2+ Million credits in ships) & not realizing my insurance cost had jumped about 180k credits above the Miilion credit loan, I went into a conflict area with a massacre 16 ships mission & got destroyed. The next screen was the insurance/loan screen - I just turned off the game.

The only way to save my ship is to slowly...very slowly earn credits through CQC Arena to at least cover my ship. If the choice is giving up 20+ Million credits and taking a Sidewinder, then I'm basically done with ED - it took long enough getting there. But since Arena (PS4) is rarely played by other gamers it seems, I am limited to playing the game to high volume times. If I didn't like the game so much, I wouldn't have considered even playing Arena as a solution. Obviously ED will be less of a priority for gaming for a while for me, but it seems like a simple revamp of insurance, more options prior to being destroyed or the ability to manage assets on the same screen after being destroyed, would cut down the frustration level dramatically.

But getting back to insurance as it is in reality - I don't pay for health insurance, car insurance, and/or life insurance at the time of my illness, car accident, and/or death; I pay premiums precisely because I don't know when these things will happen nor what my finances will look like then. No one has offered me a policy I can pay only once after I die and in return my beneficiaries receive an exponentially greater sum.

 

[Robert Maynard]

The insurance is free - what we are paying is the policy excess when we have reason to claim on the insurance policy.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

You can also remove modules to lower the rebuy fee.

Eve Online had a more realistic insurance system, but I personally hated paying a really high fee for my ship every month or so, despite me never losing it, even more so when I only played a few nights a week.

You should always fly with a good buffer for your rebuy anyway, incase you get a hefty fine or something.
I usually go for at least double what my rebuy is.
And if I dip below 1 rebuy, I immediately (and carefully) dock and switch to a cheaper ship. Even though I've not died in combat in ages, I still do the odd daft thing like flatten an Eagle while docking and get promptly vaporised by the starion. Lol

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[Iskariot]

Ok, so I'm sure this probably comes up quite a bit after someone suffers a major loss, but it seems like it could be prevented so much more easily by modifying how insurance works.

Instead of paying a percentage at the time of destruction or taking a capped loan & paying the difference out of pocket at the time of destruction, why not offer a recurring lesser percentage to obtain coverage, or a pre-pay percentage as coverage for a period of time. This really doesn't become apparent until you have a ship that costs over 1 Million to replace when you are destroyed; something I recently discovered how this is virtually game ending.

I had finally enough to acquire a dropship and was progressing along rather quickly once I had the ship. I was running missions and upgrading constantly, so my 14 Million credit ship soon became valued closer to 20 Million. I had just upgraded my dropship to where it the frame shift drive was rated 'A', & thrusters & power plant were rated 'B'. It left me with a balance of 40k credits (2+ Million credits in ships) & not realizing my insurance cost had jumped about 180k credits above the Miilion credit loan, I went into a conflict area with a massacre 16 ships mission & got destroyed. The next screen was the insurance/loan screen - I just turned off the game.

The only way to save my ship is to slowly...very slowly earn credits through CQC Arena to at least cover my ship. If the choice is giving up 20+ Million credits and taking a Sidewinder, then I'm basically done with ED - it took long enough getting there. But since Arena (PS4) is rarely played by other gamers it seems, I am limited to playing the game to high volume times. If I didn't like the game so much, I wouldn't have considered even playing Arena as a solution. Obviously ED will be less of a priority for gaming for a while for me, but it seems like a simple revamp of insurance, more options prior to being destroyed or the ability to manage assets on the same screen after being destroyed, would cut down the frustration level dramatically.

But getting back to insurance as it is in reality - I don't pay for health insurance, car insurance, and/or life insurance at the time of my illness, car accident, and/or death; I pay premiums precisely because I don't know when these things will happen nor what my finances will look like then. No one has offered me a policy I can pay only once after I die and in return my beneficiaries receive an exponentially greater sum.

The current system is perfectly fine.
I always keep an eye on my insurance cost when I upgrade or add new modules and I never fly without more than enough money to cover the fee several times. I consider it a simple responsibility of me as a ship owner.
I do not think a fundamental change is necessary.

Your comparison with the real world is invalid as this is a game, and you will not run into similar unforeseen circumstances in the ED universe. You will never get sick, you don't pay rent or alimony, you don't need food, and the roof on your house will never leak.
The ED life is simple and straightforward and there is only one disaster that can happen: Your ship might get blown up.
The only thing that is left to your responsibility is making sure that you can pay the extremely modest fee to get it back as if nothing ever happened.

I understand you are frustrated, and you should be, because you bungled it. That is part of playing the game.
You have made a mistake and now you need to deal with it. It is as simple as that.

 

[Skydaddy]

It's unfortunate and definitely frustrating, but one of the first things I learnt in ED (and I am still very new to the game) was NEVER leave space dock without enough credits to cover at least one insurance rebuy. It was the number 1 rule. It's worth waiting that bit longer to earn a few more credits before going on a spending spree and leaving yourself skint.

On the plus side, I promise you'll never make this mistake again!

I personally rather enjoy the consequences of being destroyed (as weird as that might sound). It forces me to really consider the implications of my actions rather than just respawning with no loss at the nearest station. It really increases the tension which is great in my book.

 

[Omikron777]

It is analogous; this was an unforseen consequence. Why would I intentionally leave a port with knowledge of me going to be destroyed and knowledge that my balance was as low as it was (despite having assets that could have been liquidated to cover the balance if the option were on the table)? You don't usually accept a mission with foreknowledge you are going to be screwed 10m later. Although that is indeed the design of the game's insurance, which makes little sense. I've played the xb1 version for over a 100 hrs., then started the ps4 version & have several hundred hours in it, so I've experienced unfortunate loss. This is the first time it has happened where it feels like the game design is forcing me to take a loss. I'm not putting in all the time it took to reacquire my ship; I will only play CQC until I can cover insurance. Arena is low volume, so the end result is much less ED & migration to another game. I'd rather continue with what I was doing cause I like the game a lot; unfortunately, I think the insurance design vs my own actions has soured the game for me.

 

[Omikron777]

I know modules can be removed; I'm just talking about getting my stripped down to nothing core ship back; its 180k over with the lenders cut taken into consideration.

 

[Teh Smoo]

You can also remove modules to lower the rebuy fee.

Eve Online had a more realistic insurance system, but I personally hated paying a really high fee for my ship every month or so, despite me never losing it, even more so when I only played a few nights a week.

You should always fly with a good buffer for your rebuy anyway, incase you get a hefty fine or something.
I usually go for at least double what my rebuy is.
And if I dip below 1 rebuy, I immediately (and carefully) dock and switch to a cheaper ship. Even though I've not died in combat in ages, I still do the odd daft thing like flatten an Eagle while docking and get promptly vaporised by the starion. Lol

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

Exactly my plan. I have no idea why this is not an obvious course of action for anyone.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I know modules can be removed; I'm just talking about getting my stripped down to nothing core ship back; its 180k over with the lenders cut taken into consideration.

To be honest, rather than just stewing about all this, and trying to earn the money back via Arena (I can't even join games there so few people on it), you'd be better off just accepting your fate, respawn in the free sidewinder, then grab another ship and earn the money with some quick passenger missions, or other easy high paid missions, or take part in some CGs.
13~m CR is fairly low amount these days, most CGs at the mid level pay out 10~mil. A simple passenger mission will pay out quite a lot too. Surface scan missions only require an SRV, and have absolutely no danger, and can pay 1m CR a go.

You do have another ship don't you?
If not, you should also avoid being stuck with just 1 ship for this very reason.

Atleast you've hopefully learned a valuable lesson, and won't repeat it when you get a much more expensive ship.
It could have been a lot worse. If you'd been flying a 800,000,000cr Corvette, with inadequate insurance (40,000,000cr), and no other ship, you'd be right back to the Sidewinder.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[dogsolitude_uk]

Keep an eye on the Frontier Development vacancies page. If they start advertising for actuaries, you'll know this is coming

 

[Non Grata]

Just embellish the story and contact support.

 

[dogsolitude_uk]

Just embellish the story and contact support.

Having worked in insurance, I can say that embellishment is a big part of the insurance claims process

 

[Non Grata]

Having worked in insurance, I can say that embellishment is a big part of the insurance claims process

Having had people drive in to me, then finding that it's gone knock-for-knock, I'm sure you're right!

 

[manos70131]

Having been in that place (lost everything after 4 months in the game) I did wonder why the time of payment should be the time after the destruction and not some point later. A couple of weeks later, even starting with a modest sidewinder, you'll have gathered the amount needed to rebuy your original ship.

Now, more than 18 months later, I have more than 50 times the insurance amount of my ship and it does not bother me any more. Furthermore I can get back the insurance money usually in less than a day. I wonder however if this is fair. I mean that for me the penalty for dying (that's the role of insurance after all) is almost nothing while for other people is all their progress in the game.

Yes, this is the rule, yes, one must pay attention to have the insurance amount, yes, it usually happens only once, I agree to all that. Rules change however and this specific rule I believe should be relaxed so that the penalty of death is more fair for all players, rich or poor.

 

[varonica]

Having worked in insurance, I can say that embellishment is a big part of the insurance claims process

Yes, along with increasing cost of claims due to certain factors (age, criminal convictions) and the denial of insurance altogether (multiple claims due to incompetent driving etc) I am guesing though the OP doesn't want the insurance company to start refusing to pay out claims, suddenly increasing insurance costs or cancel his insurance altogether. In other words how much more akin to reality does he want it? I am guessing he wants the good bits that benefit him but none of the bad bits that make the good bits possible in the real world. Personally I want to play a game, not an insurance simulator!

 

[Omikron777]

Yeah, Arena is not popular & finding a match is time consuming. If I could connect & play just as often as if I connected with the main game, there would be no complaint & I'd have my ship back. CQC is a solution to the limitations of insurance, however, Arena hasn't experienced a similar level of focus as the main game to maintain interest - that is no fault of my own.

And addressing insurance doesn't mean it has to be completely revamped. Adding an option for prepaid insurance would be easy - those that wanted it could do it that way, those that prefer the current system could play as they always have. You asked if I have another ship - yes, I have 2-3 Million in assets; that's still a crummy trade for a 20+ Million ship; even if all was the same, why not add the ability to sell off assets the same time insurance is demanded?

As for learning a lesson, I dont know what is expected of me to have learned? The insurance system as it stands covers your ship 100% w/zero balance, except for that brief period where your ship value has crossed maximum payout. When my ship is always covered until I drop a 4 Million Cr frame shift drive and a few other modifications, I'm not immediately calculating in my mind the current loan amount that now exists, nor the amount of credits that have suddenly become necessary for the first time that I now always need to carry.

I've no lesson to learn; I've played ED for my fair share. I'll accept the game when the rules set in place work as they are meant to; when there is a rare unforseen consequence that arises that I believe the devs didn't intentionally put in place to hamper their fans experience of the game, then I reserve the right to stew. I'm stuck at a crossroad, either take the hit & lose interest slowly building back to where I was, maybe being able to experience new things in the game or abandon a game I enjoy during peak interest.

It's like someone forcing you to watch all of Nicolas Cage's movies, then finally getting to his finest performance as a soon to be released prisoner on a plane filled with America's most heinous criminals, then the moment he's confronting John Malkovich, demanding he puts the bunny down, the person controlling the play of these movies stops the movie & says you have to slug through all the crap you just watched to see what happens in the masterpiece film you already earned the right to see without interruption.

 

[Robert Maynard]

When my ship is always covered until I drop a 4 Million Cr frame shift drive and a few other modifications, I'm not immediately calculating in my mind the current loan amount that now exists, nor the amount of credits that have suddenly become necessary for the first time that I now always need to carry.

Your current rebuy is shown on the Outfitting interface (bottom right) and the first tab of the right hand HUD (bottom left) - there's no requirement to calculate it oneself.

 

[varonica]

As for learning a lesson, I dont know what is expected of me to have learned?

Never fly without rebuy. One of the basic skills needed in games where money is involved in essential processes is to learn how to handle it. You spent so much money you didn't have enough for a rebuy, the lesson here is to always check the rebuy cost and balance if you are near the limit. I purchased a Python once, this was during the great NPC rebellion where they acquired super weapons, it got burnt a few times, when it started getting close to breaking point I docked it, purchased a T6 and went on money making missions to recover my losses before taking my Python out again. Dare I say it, yes I will, it's not rocket science!

 

[Omikron777]

I will do that - if I have that much of an impact that they go balls to the wall with this insurance idea, I'll know my power of persuasive argumentation is far greater than I believe it to be. I'd put the whole thing on my resume, just printouts of the Frontier forum and vacancies page cut up and lit. stapled onto the front of my resume & neon yellow highlighter scribbled atop so anyone who is shifting through a stack of resumes is guaranteed to grab it and read it; they would weep the same as if they had just read a passage of scripture & were thrown into a profound religious experience. After they composed themselves and, instead of phoning me, arrived in person at my front door, without knocking & merely waiting in a kneeled bow for when I randomly open my door going about my normal routine, they would quietly apologize for their unannounced presence &, holding back tears, ask me to lead their company & to name my salary. I'd say 'Jeff Bezos! You could have just called me... I'd like to accept your offer, but I need to consider my options.' As I'm helping Bezos to his feet, there would be the sound of a helicopter approaching & a few minutes later, Marine One would be sitting on my lawn, the door would open & Donald Trump would be running toward me, his hair following behind him & getting soaked by his tears. He'd yell obscenities at Bezos, choke him to sleep, then bow in front of me, apologizing just as Bezos had moments earlier...

Anyway, something like that I imagine...

 

[Omikron777]

You cannot learn a lesson when the rules your lesson is based on are changing dynamically. This is the lesson - if a rule I follow is based on established & known variables (not all variables, but a set of necessary variables), then, by common sense, I always follow this rule (this is what you've expressed, and it makes good sense). However, if the system is dynamic, where unknown variables never seen before become of significant weight, or, more importantly, where necessary variables are indeed not necessary and can change (even if I see it just once by a mere nudge & I am impossibly harmed by the change) & unintentionally fairness is negatively impacted, then my rule is invalid forever by necessity whether I see it or not (reductio ad absurdum). You should have been thinking this when you suffered a major loss; if part of the story line organically produced a breakout of violence, then I'd say this is part of the core game design - players collectively and even individually move the game world forward - could you have argued fairness? Maybe, I don't know what happened exactly. But life isn't fair and we can't do anything about it, right?

Well, to accept that is unfortunate. For example, in this case (much different than a lot of unfortunate cases of infinitely greater weight where this reaction to loss is upsetting), a computer program has identifiable & changeable variables, & is built according to market demand. If my company is bought out and a sequel is determined to be a strong demand, & I am forced to change the variables on the original to force people to migrate to the sequel, then a player's rule they've followed becomes nothing, even if the sequel is a ridiculous idea & becomes an abysmal failure - oops! Well I am told to just release the original again with some fancy dan packaging & make it right. Well my screwed fans have moved on & it's another abysmal failure - 'how could the change in ownership make me change variables I said had been set firm (after I modified that one insurance aspect that wasn't the greatest) and the fans loved it?! Why, oh why? *weeps*'

So maybe when something happens that isn't fair and can realistically be altered to satisfy all to the minimum of fairness, something should be said at minimum instead of writing it off. It helps me, it helps other players, and it helps the company; it even helps you when an unseen variable dissolves your rule