PvP Griefers are seriously making me consider quitting

[EvoMayhem]

Learning from mistakes...

From the mistake of arguing with PvP Pro Bros in the first place...
We learn that it's easier and much more conducive to a happy life if we play in solo or PG.

So, that extends to those who aren't PvP pro bros, play open, and adapt themselves and learn from mistakes as well? You trying to paint them negatively as well?

Interesting. I mean, they don't argue either. They actually talk. Both sides do. They listen, they trade info, they both go away and continue to play as before. Amazing what happens when you don't start with insults and treat folks like adults, instead of going with forum psychology.

You'd be forgiven for thinking there's happiness and conduciveness there as well, but I must be wrong. You only get that outside of open apparently...

 

[NeilF]

You have, quite amusingly, missed the point.

You 'git gud', when you learn why your previous build failed, and adapt it.

You do not 'git gud' prior to the loss. You 'git gud' in your effort 'after' the loss. Gitgud is getting better after failure.




Again, this is not hard to comprehend. Please try to follow the points given, not the points you think you're given.

None of this implies flying a damn tank. Learn the tactics, and 'adapt YOUR build' to suit.

I mean, which bit of the end of my first comment was that hard to grasp? You do not need to change your game style. If you're an explorer, stay an explorer. If you're a PvE player, stay a PvE player. But for gods sake, LEARN from mistakes.




You don't get better at sports by appealing the ref to change the rules. You get better at sports by practice and learning. And this applies to more than just sports as well. This game, same as any other game, is no different. So why the hell does the community think it should be?

You have hysterically missed the point. When you realise you can't play the game as you'd like to. And in reality there is no build that can fully prevent cynical ganging there are only two courses of action.

Tolerate it if you want to. Or do not.

And what I find most comical for all your positive talk of improvement is not once do you question how positive is the mindless cynical ganging and farming you seem to be suggesting is so worthwhile and productive? Groups of engineered ships mowing down explorers really does seem to be the culmination of great PvP mechanics? And is something for the rest of the community to accept as such?

How ludicrous of me to suggest just maybe farming explorers and the like isn't a productive activity. And how ludicrous for me to suggest maybe the game needs to offer and orchestrate maybe more involved and interesting PvP.

But keep on singing the praises of the poor state of PvP in ED and your seemingly solid analogy revolvng around a 10 year old girl playing Mine craft.

 

[Mercy Killing]

Then again, I'm sure there are lots of people that play fighting games only vs CPU and only on easy mode.

I do this because I'm 50. Age kinda spoils eyesight, reflexes, etc. I'm not good enough to play in open. Was, once but am no longer. Should I just quit playing? Frell no. I like playing. So, I play in solo, to avoid being content for someone better. I play at my personal skill level, or as close as the game will let me.

Is that invalid play? No.
Should I be punished or ridiculed for it? No.


My playing in solo only means you have one less person to easily kill. That's it.


Problem is....there are many people doing what I am, but for different reasons. Hence it seems open does not have many hapless victims for pew-pew people to shoot up any more. Open is becoming populated only by those craving combat and piloting combat oriented ships.....which is their own fault.

 

[Dietger]

And there's mindless toxic pointless ganking too... Most CMDRs wouldn't play in the fashion, destroying other CMDRs posing no real challenge, in truth just to get a kick from the aggravation/annoyance it causes them.

Then there's minority who make a career out of such "gameplay", and worse still, make groups and thus we see vapid cynical stuff like the screen shot above.


So yes, there's being a victim as you might call it. But I suspect it's a more tasteful option than what appears to be the all too common alternative for a minority.


The day ED actually offers some constructive more interesting PvP is the day I look forward to. At the moment, its folks making best out of a 3 year old mechanics unfit for the job.

NeilF thank you for your response.

I see where you are coming from. And I have NO problem with, here nor there, the way you and many others like to approach ELITE DANGEROUS. I may be wrong, but I assume you and many others seeking consensus the way you want to play.
Basically, in a cooperative sense, strictly by rules. Yet I fail to see how, in any liberate way, this is to... can be... forced upon a general player base.
Only solution I can think of, at the moment, is private groups, creating and maintaining consensus .... and even this secluded communities can be violated any time.

 

[Ian Skippy]

You have hysterically missed the point. When you realise you can't play the game as you'd like to. And in reality there is no build that can fully prevent cynical ganging there are only two courses of action.

Tolerate it if you want to. Or do not.

And what I find most comical for all your positive talk of improvement is not once do you question how positive is the mindless cynical ganging and farming you seem to be suggesting is so worthwhile and productive? Groups of engineered ships mowing down explorers really does seem to be the culmination of great PvP mechanics? And is something for the rest of the community to accept as such?

How ludicrous of me to suggest just maybe farming explorers and the like isn't a productive activity. And how ludicrous for me to suggest maybe the game needs to offer and orchestrate maybe more involved and interesting PvP.

I only explore in Open, and never had any explo ship be ganked. In-bubble I pretty much fly small ships exclusively, and no matter which I pick I am ungriefable at CGs. You know you have a lot of learning to do if you cant even comprehend how much you are lacking. Which is the annoying thing. Yes, its lame to attack random traders/explorers/beginners with Uber Ships. But the constant "oh, its not my fault, there is nothing I can do, its all so unfair and hopeless, FD should act!" whining is pointless.

1) You can prevent being griefed perfectly well.
2) Its fine if you'd rather just not be in Open instead.

But picking 2) doesnt mean you must lie about how unfair and hopeless it all is. Its weak.

 

[EvoMayhem]

You have hysterically missed the point. When you realise you can't play the game as you'd like to. And in reality there is no build that can fully prevent cynical ganging there are only two courses of action.

Tolerate it if you want to. Or do not.

And what I find most comical for all your positive talk of improvement is not once do you question how positive is the mindless cynical ganging and farming you seem to be suggesting is so worthwhile and productive? Groups of engineered ships mowing down explorers really does seem to be the culmination of great PvP mechanics? And is something for the rest of the community to accept as such?

How ludicrous of me to suggest just maybe farming explorers and the like isn't a productive activity. And how ludicrous for me to suggest maybe the game needs to offer and orchestrate maybe more involved and interesting PvP.

But keep on singing the praises of the poor state of PvP in ED and your seemingly solid analogy revolvng around a 10 year old girl playing Mine craft.

Lol!

When a T7 Built for trade with only a small concession to survivability can successfully evade an engineered PvP build with no damage, and yet you still refuse to acknowledge that this is what I'm implying, this whole discourse becomes highly amusing.

Go check YouTube, the vid is there. You know the name.

Of course you can avoid 'cynical' ganking. (Do you mean cyclical, as in round and round? I'm not sure why someone being a cynic has anything to do with interdicting you or not) Jump damn system. PvP players don't carry high wake scanners normally, and high waking has no mass lock. Jump system and reassess. Can't survive the real space encounter long enough to high wake? Reassess your build to be a bit more resilient.

I don't refer to the 'cynical' (�����&#56834 ganking, as I view it no different from random NPC pirate interdictions. They happen all the time, and I learned to deal with them. See a common theme building here?

The end point, is this. EVERYONE started this game at the same level of skill. Some improved, others have plateaued. There's no shame in saying you've hit your max skill level. It's something else entirely when your ire at those who have a higher skill level, should be derided.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Problem is....there are many people doing what I am, but for different reasons. Hence it seems open does not have many hapless victims for pew-pew people to shoot up any more. Open is becoming populated only by those craving combat and piloting combat oriented ships.....which is their own fault.

Its fine you dont play in Open, it really is. But is it too much to ask from you to quit with the pointless and baseless nonsense? Open isnt filled with 'only those craving combat and piloting combat oriented ships'. Its a completely false statement from someone who even admits not even playing Open. As someone who does: most people I run into do not fly FDLs, Cutters or Corvettes. There is a great mix of all kinds of people and all kinds of ships. Again; play any way you want, its all good. But dont make up stuff to justify it, its silly and serves no point.

 

[metascrawl]

Yes one of the Mods tactics.

First is to give you a warning without infraction points, so they can just mod the post to protect the delicate readers.

Next is to move really good posts that might trigger the more delicate readers to the black holes on the forums.

What we really need right now, are some Asps in front of things!

Moderation martyr ^

 

[Ian Skippy]

Lol!

When a T7 Built for trade with only a small concession to survivability can successfully evade an engineered PvP build with no damage, and yet you still refuse to acknowledge that this is what I'm implying, this whole discourse becomes highly amusing.

Go check YouTube, the vid is there. You know the name.

Of course you can avoid 'cynical' ganking. (Do you mean cyclical, as in round and round? I'm not sure why someone being a cynic has anything to do with interdicting you or not) Jump damn system. PvP players don't carry high wake scanners normally, and high waking has no mass lock. Jump system and reassess. Can't survive the real space encounter long enough to high wake? Reassess your build to be a bit more resilient.

I don't refer to the 'cynical' (������) ganking, as I view it no different from random NPC pirate interdictions. They happen all the time, and I learned to deal with them. See a common theme building here?

The end point, is this. EVERYONE started this game at the same level of skill. Some improved, others have plateaued. There's no shame in saying you've hit your max skill level. It's something else entirely when your ire at those who have a higher skill level, should be derided.

Here's how it normally works:

1) Trader flies to destination in straight line. Doesnt check his radar, maybe even alt-tabbed to the forums.
2) Player gets interdicted 'suddenly' because he wasnt paying attention,
3) Player submits and tries to boost+lowwake, because that is what works against low-ranked NPCs.
4) Attacker easily shoots ship flying in a straight line.
5) Trader complains it is 'unfair' and 'he could have done nothing about it'. Maybe whine a bit about being old, or having a job, or being responsible or some such irrelevant nonsense.

 

[Mercy Killing]

Maybe whine a bit about being old, or having a job, or being responsible or some such irrelevant nonsense.

Right there is where your argument loses all credibility. When you have to denigrate anyone for any reason to try and prove your point, your point becomes totally invalid. If you can't NOT denigrate or make fun of someone, then you shouldn't participate in the conversation at all.

 

[EvoMayhem]

I do this because I'm 50. Age kinda spoils eyesight, reflexes, etc. I'm not good enough to play in open. Was, once but am no longer. Should I just quit playing? Frell no. I like playing. So, I play in solo, to avoid being content for someone better. I play at my personal skill level, or as close as the game will let me.

Is that invalid play? No.
Should I be punished or ridiculed for it? No.


My playing in solo only means you have one less person to easily kill. That's it.


Problem is....there are many people doing what I am, but for different reasons. Hence it seems open does not have many hapless victims for pew-pew people to shoot up any more. Open is becoming populated only by those craving combat and piloting combat oriented ships.....which is their own fault.

Me, I have no problem with this. You've acknowledged a bit of a personal reason for not being able to (excuse the term, I can't think of better right now) 'compete' in open, due to eyesight, reflexes, and basic age. I do know the feeling incidentally!

No, you shouldn't be ridiculed for it. But neither should those who still can play competitively.

I can guarantee that those who PvP, or support that gamestyle even though they don't play it, upon hearing your reasons, wouldn't deride you.

But it goes both ways.

Honestly, they are not the boogeyman. They are not kids with psychological disorders. It's just other players. That's all there is to it.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Right there is where your argument loses all credibility. When you have to denigrate anyone for any reason to try and prove your point, your point becomes totally invalid. If you can't NOT denigrate or make fun of someone, then you shouldn't participate in the conversation at all.

The mistakes people make the failure to take responsibility is not caused by 'having a job' or 'responsibilities'. So if people bring those fake arguments forward, I get to call them out for it. Its not making fun of anyone, and its only denigrating if you mean 'to speak damagingly'. You are just dodging the arguments, and I just checked and its probably because you used the 'I am old so I cant compete' line. You dont need reflexes, great eyesight or any such thing to beat griefers. You need planning, knowledge and some basic attention.

If you dont want to do that, perfectly fine. But really stop with the 'it is impossible for me to do anything about it.'

 

[Mercy Killing]

I can guarantee that those who PvP, or support that gamestyle even though they don't play it, upon hearing your reasons, wouldn't deride you.

Problem is...I -was- the object of derision in a post not very far above yours. PvP types generally (not always, I do admit) make fun of non-PvP types. Why? What purpose does derision serve?

Edited to add:

If you dont want to do that, perfectly fine. But really stop with the 'it is impossible for me to do anything about it.'

I have done something about it. Play in solo. Never once have I said it's impossible for me to do anything about it, nor have I "whined about being old".....I simply give the reasons for my play choice. Reading comprehension failure, methinks. It's okay, though. Happens a lot on forums.




Edited yet again:

I didnt, and I am not.

I sure do feel like you're denigrating me for my unwillingness to PvP. With this last addendum to this post...I bid you good day sir/madam/person of whatever gender you identify as.

 

[Lori Jameson]

I will say this much; real pirates are after your cargo, not your ship. Most are willing to barter a bit (within reason). Do not lump pirates in the same boat as griefers. FDev have labeled griefers and revolutionary types as 'terrorists'. If you have problems with terrorists (or anyone really), there are mercenary and police groups you can contact...

Open is better (in inhabited space) when you fly in a group. LFG on Xbox, Discord, Dangerous Groups, etc. OP seems to want to encounter others, this is a better alternative. The 'Git Gud' stuff will come in time. Focus on finding a decent group that shares your interests.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Problem is...I -was- the object of derision in a post not very far above yours. PvP types generally (not always, I do admit) make fun of non-PvP types. Why? What purpose does derision serve?

I didnt, and I am not.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I have done something about it. Play in solo. Never once have I said it's impossible for me to do anything about it, nor have I "whined about being old".....I simply give the reasons for my play choice. Reading comprehension failure, methinks. It's okay, though. Happens a lot on forums.

Really?

I do this because I'm 50. Age kinda spoils eyesight, reflexes, etc. I'm not good enough to play in open. Was, once but am no longer.

Again: if you want to play Solo, that is fine. Just not say 'I cannot fly in Open because due to old age I am not good enough'. A RL mate I fly with regularly showed the game to his father, who has now been playing Open for a year or so. The dude is ancient, retired for many many years. If he can do it, so can you. And if you dont want to do, just say so. These modes exists to be used, so its fine to fly solo, or Mobius, or smaller PGs with mates.

But when you say you are 'not good enough for Open because you are 50', you help foster the learned-helplessness many exhibit around here. So if you really want to play Open, start a topic and ask for help. If you cant be bothered with all that because it isn't fun to you, simply say "I like solo better so thats what I chose". And ignore anyone who has an issue with it.

I sure do feel like you're denigrating me for my unwillingness to PvP. With this last addendum to this post...I bid you good day sir/madam/person of whatever gender you identify as.

Again, I am not a PvP player, I am a PvE player in Open who doesn't like the non-stop nonsense being told about Open (or Mobius and Solo). The supposed slight wasn't even in a post aimed at you, nor did that post contained a quote from you. If you insist on being offended I cant help it, but it is a shame. FWIW: it wasn't aimed at you, I have no intention to insult you.

 

[NeilF]

I only explore in Open, and never had any explo ship be ganked. In-bubble I pretty much fly small ships exclusively, and no matter which I pick I am ungriefable at CGs. You know you have a lot of learning to do if you cant even comprehend how much you are lacking. Which is the annoying thing. Yes, its lame to attack random traders/explorers/beginners with Uber Ships. But the constant "oh, its not my fault, there is nothing I can do, its all so unfair and hopeless, FD should act!" whining is pointless.

1) You can prevent being griefed perfectly well.
2) Its fine if you'd rather just not be in Open instead.

But picking 2) doesnt mean you must lie about how unfair and hopeless it all is. Its weak.

Nonsense...

The fact you have been lucky enough not to be "farmed" at exploration locations is nothing more that pure luck. And no matter what you say, you cannot be bullet proof against such cynical activity. You can certainly reduce it, but not prevent it.

In the space of a couple of weeks, I witnessed explorers being repeatedly clubbed at the then newly discovered Thargoid sites, and at the famous FD Thargoid reveal event, where wings of Engineered FDLs were destroying the CMDRs there enjoying the social event (in OPEN), quite literally in seconds! It may be of interest that Ed wasn't of course in Open for this event, why is this?


I find it confusing that you're quite happy to ignore the issues with the three year old mechanics of OPEN, the continued lack of any meaningful C&P, and the frankly embarrassing lack of PvP (& PvE) depth and mechanics three years into the game. And instead suggest the answer is for players to tolerate these issues, and just get gooder at being other players "content".

Personally I see the answer as C&P (karma) reducing mindless cynical activity, and for some actual PvP gameplay of note being (finally) added to the game (including some long overdue improvement to piracy).


Here's a screenshot from that Thargoid reveal. A group of players turning up in engineered ships to do nothing more than club the explorers there (which they were doing literally in seconds!). To do nothing more than try and garner entertainment at other players frustration/expense. By all means continue to sing the praises of the mechanics than support this, and do little more to offer anything of more meaning/interest. Bravo at suggesting players just need to get gooder, instead of the game!

 

[dm0815]

I think our difference of opinion stems from our view of Open. I always play in Open and for me it's literally that, Open. I'm open to whoever is there and what may come. For me an act of piracy is extremely valid gameplay especially as the pirate literally is not out to destroy your ship. It's an interaction that's more akin to having frienemies than anything intentionally nasty.
https://youtu.be/nCFWlmZjr8E

Ugh I hope that wasn't a high security system, it would be sad. (But what kills it for me is the long jump in/out sequence I've experience frequently in Open and makes me wonder why I'm not playing solo where I don't have to deal with this nonsense).

I believe PvE/PvP can coexist in Open, but security levels have to mean something, If you are in a high sec. system, it should be a "you shouldn't even think about activating your interdictor unless the target is wanted" kind of security level. What we have now is laughable and you have to be constantly on edge everywhere. That way players who don't enjoy being ganked in virtually every system they go (as a possibility, not a fact) can stick to those systems and can be punished for not paying attention where they go. Players who seek the risk and are rewarded appropriately can go the low sec. or even anarchy systems. As an incentive the mission system could generate missions which lead the player to such systems. This also creates a kind of "shark tank" where PvPers can wait for their victims who come to those systems looking for a high credit payout, as in: They concentrate in an anarchy system while some nearby systems generate missions for this anarchy system.

This would probably encourage BGS players to get rid of those anarchy states as well or for PvPers to destabilize whole systems to create more opportunities. (Although that's more of a PvE activity so not that attractive probably)

 

[babelfisch]

I just wish there was some surefire way for people who didnt want to PVP, to 100% avoid PVP while being able enjoy all the "content" the game has to offer with their friends.

Kind of embarrassing that some people aren't that smart to figure it out for themselves.

You completely missed the point. Going to Solo / PG is the obvious reaction, not "git gud".
Again, kind of embarrassing.

 

[sovapid]

I do this because I'm 50. Age kinda spoils eyesight, reflexes, etc. I'm not good enough to play in open. Was, once but am no longer. Should I just quit playing? Frell no. I like playing. So, I play in solo, to avoid being content for someone better. I play at my personal skill level, or as close as the game will let me.

I'm just about to turn 46. Now everyone is different and maybe the years took a harder toll on you or I have a lot to look forward to in the next 4 years, but....

I PVP in elite. I do agree about the reduction in reflexes etc, but elite isn't a twitch shooter, so you dont notice it as much as you would in something like CS:GO. And if you just want to escape attacks, at least I can get away relatively easily. (or at least everytime i've tried. maybe someone will get me sooner or later).

I play in open, not only for PVP, but while trading, going to engineers etc. I do it to add excitement and a real sense of danger. (even though you hardly ever see anyone out side of a CG or popular engineer). But thats just me, if you don't want the added excitement, no issue with playing solo. And there are times when I don't want the added excitement either and will jump to solo or PG.

I wouldn't write off open just because youre 50, you could probably do it. However if you really dont want the interaction, solo is cool as well.