What a waste...

[smiths121]

I'd like to see passenger missions to the Megaships (drop off for those with landing pads), and passenger missions to go hear all the logs of the colony ships. Think these would bring them into the main game, those that are discovered. I would absolutely do those missions, even if the pay was low!

Simon

 

[Arubeto]

But how does one go about finding them without using a Wiki or other out of game resource?

Exactly my point, couldn't agree more. I don't want handholding, instead I want those assets the designers obviously put a lot of effort into put to good use - and not to be hidden in same obscure parts of the galaxy that just the most dedicated GalNet and forum researchers will ever find.

 

[Mr_Foxhound]

The updates during the "Horizons" season of ED brought many cool new assets to the game, many of which I have been looking forward to for a long time:

• Megaships
• Structures inspired by CQC arenas
• Shipyards
• Several cool variations for station interiors (high tech, tourism, mining etc.)
• Alien crash sites and structures

In addition to that, we still have the awesome capital ships. I love all those assets, I think the 3D artists of ED did a splendid job designing and creating all these awesome locations.

And that's exactly what is such a shame: apart from the station interior variations, I rarely ever come across any of these cool locations if I don't actively seek them out / go looking for them. I know where some capital ships are stationed, but never really have any reason to visit them, because they just statically and meaningless orbit around a planet without any connection to missions or any interesting way to interact with them. I think they - as well as all the other cool stuff the designers created - should be much better integrated into the mission system then they are now, to actively show us the awesome stuff the game has to offer!

How awesome would it be to be send to defend a capital ship that happens to be in a system in the state of war (this should definitely also make capital ships more dynamic, like having a set of 30-50 capital ships for every super power that they actively move around the galaxy and could be tracked and followed by players, instead of the static locations and random Combat Zone appearances they have now).

In a similar way, bounty hunting missions could make use of the CQC inspired structures, since scum tends to hang out around those structures.

Community Goals that have the goal to build new Capital or Megaships should ask us to bring resources to capital shipyards, instead of the normal space station we visit every day anyway.

Right now, we need to follow Galnet news or forum threads and newsletters to know how to see new alien sites or megaships. Why can't this happen more in-game, incorporating those locations into missions as well?

As it is now, there are so many cool places in ED many people will never see, because they are not integrated into the normal gameplay at all or at least not well enough.

What a waste...

what you seek is never gonna happen ED has Hit quality resonance, meaning probably that its cost are lower then the micro transactions .

 

[Barking_Mad]

<snip>

From Steve Kirby, lead games designer (8th March 2017)

“…we are as keen to get these locations fully fleshed out as you guys are. We don’t want these to be just a pretty location to visit once. We have read every single post in this thread and made a note of all the suggested gameplay for these locations. I’m in full agreement with you that these locations needs more meaningful interactions and links to other areas of the game. I will be doing everything I can go make these locations what we originally envisioned them to be.


“Much of our planned gameplay for these sites has been slightly delayed due to several reasons I can’t go into, but we hope to implement them in the future. “As many of you know, we tend to implement these things in stages for various reasons. Now that we have the key installation types in place, we are now in a position to work on the deeper gameplay.


“As for the reason this has not been completed already for 2.3, all I can say is that sometimes priorities have to be changed and we don’t get to implement everything we originally intended got the first iteration of a piece of content.”

 

[Arubeto]

From Steve Kirby, lead games designer (8th March 2017)

I remember that post from Steve just too well. The problem with it is - IMHO - that it's from march this year and there has been little to no development concerning the purpose or integration of these locations / assets at all. There haven't even been any announcements or comments about this topic since the quoted post.

There were other "low hanging fruits" announced for the "Horizons" season that I expected would be implemented (exactly because they are so low hanging):

• additional SRV types
• more CQC arenas and installations
• Powers from Powerplay being promoted and demoted dynamically from and to minor faction status (not quite as low-hanging as the other two, but planned since season 1)

None of these were delivered, but instead they were explicitely postponed, put on ice or even canceled.

So please forgive me if an ambitious, but sadly probably outdated post by the wonderful Steve Kirby doesn't give me too much faith.

 

[Martind Forlon]

More if not all these places can be part of promotional missions for empire/federation ranks. Nice OP, +rep given.

 

[Barking_Mad]

I remember that post from Steve just too well. The problem with it is - IMHO - that it's from march this year and there has been little to no development concerning the purpose or integration of these locations / assets at all. There haven't even been any announcements or comments about this topic since the quoted post.

There were other "low hanging fruits" announced for the "Horizons" season that I expected would be implemented (exactly because they are so low hanging):

• additional SRV types
• more CQC arenas and installations
• Powers from Powerplay being promoted and demoted dynamically from and to minor faction status (not quite as low-hanging as the other two, but planned since season 1)

None of these were delivered, but instead they were explicitely postponed, put on ice or even canceled.

So please forgive me if an ambitious, but sadly probably outdated post by the wonderful Steve Kirby doesn't give me too much faith.

It's the most up to date quote available about using those particular assets. There's been nothing to say they or anything else have been "cancelled", that's just empty speculation at this point. Best just to wait until the 7th October when hopefully we'll get a better view of what parts of 'the base game' they plan on adding to.

 

[Arubeto]

There's been nothing to say they or anything else have been "cancelled", that's just empty speculation at this point.

About the new locations and assets being put to better use, yes, that is just speculation.

About the other points I listed in my last post: no, that's no speculation:

- when Michael Brookes was still on board he confirmed that there probably won't be new CQC arenas during the Horizons season (it was in a response to a statement by David Braben, who - as charmingly optimistic as always - answered "yes" to some user asking for those promised new CQC stages)

- in a similar way Michael (I am not sure here, might have been someone else) said there are no new SRV types planned for the Horizons season

- the decision to abandon the plan to dynamically change Powers (and also to add more powers to eventually hit the promissed number of 20 powers) was confirmed by Sandro, either during a livestream or at the forums, and was explained by the lower than expected popularity of PowerPlay.

(I won't search for those posts or streams to quote them now, have done that to death in the first two years of ED, I hope you believe me I didn't make them up)

Those are good reasons (I see why putting so much effort into a feature that only a handful of people are actually using - CQC and Powerplay - is probably deemed not economic), but they are unfulfilled announcements nonetheless (I normally don't play the "broken promises" card, escpecially since it's so often wrongly used when speculating about stuff from the DDF & DDA, since those design decissions where never explicetely promised, while these features - CQC arenas, SRVs, Powerplay improvements - were promised but canceled eventually)

Don't get me wrong, I am not a "doommonger" at all, I am quite happy with many things in ED and I do remember the two of use often agreeing on many aspects of the game in the past.

At this particular occasion, though, I think FD is wasting a lot of potential for the game for which they already have implemented most of the groundwork - the assets are already build and in-game, the mission system is quite flexible now, allowing us to accept missions even in space - so why don't they do the final step?

 

[Fosdyke]

About the new locations and assets being put to better use, yes, that is just speculation.

About the other points I listed in my last point: no, that's no speculation:

- when Michael Brookes was still on board he confirmed that there probably won't be new CQC arenas during the Horizons season (it was in a response to a statement by David Braben, who - as charmingly optimistic as always - answered "yes" to some user asking for those promised new CQC stages)

- in a similar way Michael (I am not sure here, might have been someone else) said there are no new SRV types planned for the Horizons season

- the decision to abandon the plan to dynamically change Powers (and also to add more powers to eventually hit the promissed number of 20 powers) was confirmed by Sandro, either during a livestream or at the forums, and was explained by the lower than expected popularity of PowerPlay.

(I won't search for those posts or streams to quote them now, have don't that to death in the first two years of ED, I hope you believe me I didn't make them up)

Those are good reasons (I see why putting so much effort into a feature that only a handful of people are actually using - CQC and Powerplay - is probably deemed not economic), but they are unfulfilled announcements nonetheless (I normally don't play the "broken promises" card, escpecially since it's so often wrongly used when speculating about stuff from the DDF & DDA, since those design decissions where never explicetely promised, while these features - CQC arenas, SRVs, Powerplay improvements were promised but canceled eventually)

Don't get me wrong, I am not a "doommonger" at all, I am quite happy with many things in ED and I do remember the two of use often agreeing on many aspects of the game in the past.

At this particular occasion, though, I think FD is wasting a lot of potential for the game for which they already have implemented most of the groundwork - the assets are already build and in-game, the mission system is quite flexible now, allowing us to accept missions even in space - so why don't they do the final step?

Agree with you on all the points you brought Arubeto.
Lets hope that 3.0 will bring those nice stuff in motion

 

[GraXXoR]

It's the most up to date quote available about using those particular assets. There's been nothing to say they or anything else have been "cancelled", that's just empty speculation at this point. Best just to wait until the 7th October when hopefully we'll get a better view of what parts of 'the base game' they plan on adding to.

We know what parts of the base game have been added to since the 2.4 beta. (minus the storyline and the T10D).

I can't see them telling us the next step with any clarity and accuracy so soon after 2.4 is released (if it even is by then).

There may be one or two surprises in there but that won't be base game surprises, I'm sure. It's likely to be content and storyline "surprises."

One thing I will say though is that the Thargoid CG site in the Beta is a real work of art! Truly magnificent and needs to be experienced in VR to really appreciate the grandeur and eeriness.
If there are any more surprises like that, it's going to be pretty epic if we can reach them and actually experience them...

Can't wait.

 

[Arubeto]

1 - They are made dockable (interior docking would be grand) and...

IMO, this, together with a mission board and perhaps some other services depending on installation type (Black market in CQC structures, Outfitting in Capital shipyards etc.), would already solve the problem I mentioned to a large degree. Even if those locations aren't explicitely used as mission destinations, they could at least be used by players as their new homes / missions hubs etc.

Given FD added docking ports to megaships and the structures in question are huge enough to house some docking ports themselves, this can't be very difficult to implement...

 

[Soon(TM)]

But how does one go about finding them without using a Wiki or other out of game resource?

This has been EDs downfall since day zero.

To find the content in the game, you have to come out of the game!

It's the most backwards thinking setup you can imagine.

The in game puzzles, required people to record audio and input it into a spectrum analyser, which is separate software,, outside the game, and you had to know how to use the software! imagine if this was a console only game, how much of a mess would that have been... Even now, console gamers wouldn't be able to take part in half the puzzles unless they have a PC as well as their consoles; that's some massive assumptions made by FD right there!

Heck, it took two years of nagging just to get FD to put galnet in our ships, before then you HAD to be docked at a station in order to access galnet.

Same goes for trade information, it's 3300+ and we have the ability to jump across massive distances in seconds, fly huge lumbering ships capable of hauling hundreds of tons of cargo, energy shields and Beam lasers..... But we cannot get the trading data from near by systems unless we exit the game and load a browser window and access a third party app made by an enthusiast of the game!

 

[AnotherVoice]

This has been EDs downfall since day zero.

To find the content in the game, you have to come out of the game!

It's the most backwards thinking setup you can imagine.

Have you ever played any Dark soul game ? Good luck completing all the NPC questline without having to look at the Wiki. They're REALLY easy to screw up. E: D is not unique on this point

 

[burzum]

So the TL;DR of this is simply: The core mechanics are still stupid and shallow and repetetive as they always have been. No real improvement. Still no more or less meaningful world with content that makes any sense. Guess ED won't have a fraction of the content even if SC gets released 2025 by the current speed of FDEVs development. Why the frack is it that hard to get game logic like "Intercept transporters to delay building of <alliance here> cap ships in system <system name here>" that would have an effect? Also the whole community goals are . I want to play when I want to play without other people. Same goes for the story. I've uninstalled the game long ago and looks like its going to stay that way. Reading every few month about the non-progress is the only entertainment that is left from this work in progress game.

 

[Arubeto]

So the TL;DR of this is simply: The core mechanics are still stupid and shallow and repetetive as they always have been. No real improvement. Still no more or less meaningful world with content that makes any sense. Guess ED won't have a fraction of the content even if SC gets released 2025 by the current speed of FDEVs development. Why the frack is it that hard to get game logic like "Intercept transporters to delay building of <alliance here> cap ships in system <system name here>" that would have an effect? Also the whole community goals are . I want to play when I want to play without other people. Same goes for the story. I've uninstalled the game long ago and looks like its going to stay that way. Reading every few month about the non-progress is the only entertainment that is left from this work in progress game.

No, this thread is not about whether the gameplay mechanics in ED are too shallow or not, but rather about EDs beautiful locations and assets that FD should make better use of and should better incorporate into their existing game. It's not even asking for new gameplay mechanics, just to link the existing ones - missions - with those assets - like shipyards and CQC structures.

 

[Ouberos]

No, this thread is not about whether the gameplay mechanics in ED are too shallow or not, but rather about EDs beautiful locations and assets that FD should make better use of and should better incorporate into their existing game. It's not even asking for new gameplay mechanics, just to link the existing ones - missions - with those assets - like shipyards and CQC structures.

This is a good thread and ties in with other discussions. I think the player sourced tourist beacons was a great idea and worked really well at getting people out there. It engaged a lot of people (even me! Mines is about the battle of Lugh. A battle I saw on you tube and which compelled me to buy the game. I wasn't even there but felt it should be recorded!) to suggest places which were special to them.

I have to say, being a tour guide doesn't thrill me and I'm not a natural bus driver but the mechanism could be skinned slightly differently to sell it to me. As someone has suggested, make a structure part of an assassination mission or make factions ask you for alien stuff so you have coordinates and a reason to go. We already get asked for meta alloys if a station gets UA bombed so the potential is there, it's just a case of closing the loop.

 

[smiths121]

This is a good thread and ties in with other discussions. I think the player sourced tourist beacons was a great idea and worked really well at getting people out there. It engaged a lot of people (even me! Mines is about the battle of Lugh. A battle I saw on you tube and which compelled me to buy the game. I wasn't even there but felt it should be recorded!) to suggest places which were special to them.

I have to say, being a tour guide doesn't thrill me and I'm not a natural bus driver but the mechanism could be skinned slightly differently to sell it to me. As someone has suggested, make a structure part of an assassination mission or make factions ask you for alien stuff so you have coordinates and a reason to go. We already get asked for meta alloys if a station gets UA bombed so the potential is there, it's just a case of closing the loop.

I love the passenger missions. I would be scout ( just by material hunting and Basic Scanner aDd the need for early FSD increEASE) without Passenger missions.I like the multi-hop tourist locations in and about the bubble. I love the 1K to 2K explorer missions, good money and a destination that is often (not always) worth while visiting. 2K is my exploration limit, I start frothing at the mouth at 2001LY!

Hey its horses for courses, the more ways in (combat, trade, exploration, passengers), the more players enjoy these great assets.

Simon

 

[MrFailfactory]

If your main focus is things that are put in the game with an announced, known location (the Cannon Megaship, for example, CQC resources, or Jaques Station), then I would be with you 100%. Frontier should indeed utilize these resources, and point players to them using in-game mechanisms in a somewhat convenient fashion.

If you are also referring to things like the Generation Ships, Ancient Ruins, or Thargoid bases, then I would say absolutely not.

These things are Exploration content (regardless of what the Travelers or Cartographers might feel), and there are a fair number of people for whom this is their primary content interest. These people take their (likely limited) game time to search for these things, figure out any riddles/puzzles, and they do this (largely) as a collaborative community. They are willing to spend their game time doing what the vast majority of the community isn't willing to do, and we all benefit from their efforts. This is something that absolutely should not change until long after the discoveries have been made, and the puzzles worked out at the very least, if ever.

Do you understand that Frontier would be taking away a very large portion of their content if they started pointing the general community towards it? What would there be for the Explorers to find?

Frontier is actually going about this the right way - designing this type of content in such a way that it takes some time for it to be found, and that it takes a community effort to completely discover and figure out. That does indeed mean that a fair number of people will be left out of the discovery and puzzle portions; that is, unless they too decide to take their game time, and add their own efforts to the collective, and be part of the whole.

When it comes to this kind of content, Frontier should never, ever, cater to the desires of those who are just looking for a guided experience that requires minimal effort/time, and provides maximum reward. That mentality is never satiated, is just the tip of the iceberg, and catering to it will sink the ship for certain.

Riôt

 

[Jieun]

If you are also referring to things like the Generation Ships, Ancient Ruins, or Thargoid bases, then I would say absolutely not.

These things are Exploration content (regardless of what the Travelers or Cartographers might feel), and there are a fair number of people for whom this is their primary content interest. These people take their (likely limited) game time to search for these things, figure out any riddles/puzzles, and they do this (largely) as a collaborative community. They are willing to spend their game time doing what the vast majority of the community isn't willing to do, and we all benefit from their efforts. This is something that absolutely should not change until long after the discoveries have been made, and the puzzles worked out at the very least, if ever.

i dont think anyone would disagree for the most part. but how about for such things that have already been discovered (emphasis on already discovered), we get long-range passenger missions pointing towards them after some time? or do you think that'd be too much?

 

[Arubeto]

If your main focus is things that are put in the game with an announced, known location (the Cannon Megaship, for example, CQC resources, or Jaques Station), then I would be with you 100%. Frontier should indeed utilize these resources, and point players to them using in-game mechanisms in a somewhat convenient fashion.

If you are also referring to things like the Generation Ships, Ancient Ruins, or Thargoid bases, then I would say absolutely not.

These things are Exploration content (regardless of what the Travelers or Cartographers might feel), and there are a fair number of people for whom this is their primary content interest. These people take their (likely limited) game time to search for these things, figure out any riddles/puzzles, and they do this (largely) as a collaborative community. They are willing to spend their game time doing what the vast majority of the community isn't willing to do, and we all benefit from their efforts. This is something that absolutely should not change until long after the discoveries have been made, and the puzzles worked out at the very least, if ever.

Do you understand that Frontier would be taking away a very large portion of their content if they started pointing the general community towards it? What would there be for the Explorers to find?

Frontier is actually going about this the right way - designing this type of content in such a way that it takes some time for it to be found, and that it takes a community effort to completely discover and figure out. That does indeed mean that a fair number of people will be left out of the discovery and puzzle portions; that is, unless they too decide to take their game time, and add their own efforts to the collective, and be part of the whole.

When it comes to this kind of content, Frontier should never, ever, cater to the desires of those who are just looking for a guided experience that requires minimal effort/time, and provides maximum reward. That mentality is never satiated, is just the tip of the iceberg, and catering to it will sink the ship for certain.

Riôt

I am absolutely with you, there. I don't want to pointed at mysteries like hidden ancient ruins by frontier, I think those are handled ok, because they actually are mysteries that are supposed to be solved by the players.

What I mean are those installations that one probably wouldn't consider hidden - like capital shipyards - and that should have a unique purpose to visit them, that should be better integrated into the normal flow of the game, some reason to visit those CQC inspired structures apart from just bounty hunting - that's such a clumsy way to apply a very limited function to some assets that could provide so much more gameplay.