Combat Logging Solution

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I've posted this in a separate thread before, but my original thread seems to have vanished, so I'm reposting it. (Mostly so I can find it again!)

A Tagging System
When you enter combat (ideally just PvP, but if it can't be distinguished, both PvE and PvP), a "tag" is placed on your save, which contains some information on your current game mode.
When you leave combat, the tag is removed. You'd be none the wiser.

If you illegally combat log, or have a CTD, server error, etc, while in combat, the tag would not be removed.

This "tag" is then read when loading the game, and using the information it stored, will only allow you to re-enter your previous mode for a limited time(including exact private group). Say 30* minutes from rejoining the game.
The timer is based on game time, not real time, and the tag will not be removed until the timer is up. So logging in, then immediately logging out will not remove the tag. Nor will sitting at the main menu.

I particularly like this idea, because if you're just going about your business and suffer a server failure or CTD while in combat, you simply reload the game and continue as normal, in your previous mode, which we all do anyway.

But if you're intentionally combat logging in PvP, your only options are to rejoin the same mode, where your opponent may be waiting (in PvP anyway), or don't return to the game.

No one is ever barred entirely from the game, and accidental disconnects are not punished, and non combat disconnects are not even registered.

*The timer could be longer or shorter, or even be dynamic, punishing serial CLoggers more.

Thoughts?

Note: using the 15 second timer to exit the game is not included in this, and holds no punishment.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[Tursonaki]

It's a considered idea but maybe it's a sledgehammer to crack a nut?

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

It's a considered idea but maybe it's a sledgehammer to crack a nut?

It's just a fair alternative to the usual "force rebuy if CLogging", or "shadowban for CLoggers" ideas.
FD stated themselves that they can't detect the difference between a legitimate unintentional disconnect, or malicious combat log.
And I feel (as a wonky internet user - lol) that punishing CLogging severely when it may be beyond your control, is unfair. But not punishing it is also unacceptable.

I should mention this only applies to pulling the plug, or CTDs, and whatnot. Using the 15 second timer is perfectly fine and goes unpunished.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[KillaALF]

Thoughts?

..snip ... or don't return to the game.

Yeah, this, pretty much. If a game inconveniences me, I just stop playing it, period.

Not that I would be inconvenienced if your idea was implemented, I never play open anyway and all those brain-cycles (not to mention time) that get wasted on this forum on such a non-issue as CL is frankly just baffling to me.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Yeah, this, pretty much. If a game inconveniences me, I just stop playing it, period.

Not that I would be inconvenienced if your idea was implemented, I never play open anyway and all those brain-cycles (not to mention time) that get wasted on this forum on such a non-issue as CL is frankly just baffling to me.

As a fellow PvEr, I understand that this solution to CLogging is actually pretty meaningless. If it were implemented, I'd not notice either, because I primarily play alone, in whatever mode.

But it's more for the people to do actively participate in PvP, trying to protect other CMDRs from the murder hobos who combat log at the first sign of trouble, and even the traders that combat log on legitimate piracy attempts.

And like you said, it's only an inconvenience to the real CLoggers.

As for wasted brain cycles, I do a lot of that here. Lol
I have a dull job, and I like to keep my brain active, than just stare blanky out of the window.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[StiTch]

As a fellow PvEr, I understand that this solution to CLogging is actually pretty meaningless. If it were implemented, I'd not notice either, because I primarily play alone, in whatever mode.

But it's more for the people to do actively participate in PvP, trying to protect other CMDRs from the murder hobos who combat log at the first sign of trouble, and even the traders that combat log on legitimate piracy attempts.

Firstly, I just want to establish that I'm 100% behind an attempt to find a CLing solution. All respect to you, Cosmic Spacehead.

I do want to establish right off the bat though that CLing is not an issue relegated to PvP. It's the focus of conversation about it, and would likely be used to trial karma punishments, but players are beyond misguided if they think FD don't give a monkey about people force quitting on NPCs.

CLing is ultimately about consequence-the same thing that many people want applied to...well let's call it "confrontational Open play". If you don't go out into the big world prepared, and the result is a giant NPC spike to the backside, you're still cheating for pulling the plug on your session prematurely to save your assets (see what I did there?)

But yes; you are right in hinting that PvE CLing is a beast that cheats on their own account...where in piracy, or PvP bounty hunting CLing, is something that not only cheats on your own account but affects another's game unfairly. Now we can't have that in Open, can we?

[/rant]

With regards to the suggestion itself: it's certainly a nice try. What you might find FD are interested in as a focal point for CLing "administration" is a higher level of visibility over the greater details; "whether they were in combat at the time or not" may not be a strong enough metric to damn someone over drawing a pattern in their disconnects.

Ultimately I don't think they will penalise players for a single disconnection, and might consider this doing so (or might find ways this could be abused with the right network tools). But from a logical perspective my friend, I think it's beautiful.

And of course, there's nothing to say it can't extend to PvE. I think someone mentioned this as a sledgehammer, but small tags like this contain minimal data...easily small enough to consider adding meta data to the tag such as identifiers for the enemy. On reconnect, it forces a player back into their previous mode, and respawns them in the instance with the same NPCs interacting with them.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

True, it's a very PvP focused suggestion.

I'm trying to avoid suggestion solutions to general PvE combat logging, due to the fact I have no idea how instancing and whatnot really works.

It'd be great if the entire instance from when you CLogged was recreated when you log in next. But I have no idea if that's even possible, or if it is, how much work would it take, and is it worth it for PvE?
All of my Clogs in PvE have been either down to bugs, or wonky internet or server issues. I don't even know if CLogging in PvE/solo is even a big thing. Lol

It would certainly be useful if the instance could be fully recreated when logging in, even from a normal non combat disconnect. The amount of times I've had transaction errors when at mission objectives, or rare USSs is quite high, so if the game could put everything back how it was, that'd be a bonus all round, and an excellent QoL feature.

But currently, all this suggestion does, other put the CLogger back where they left, so they can't hop in another mode and fly to safety, avoiding all consequences of their actions, whatever they may be. Their only choices are rejoin where they left off, potentially with their opponent, or don't come back.
It's up to the other CMDRs to decide whether to hang around in normal space or supercruise waiting for them.

I'd assume the karma System and blocking can do the rest.

Ideally, if you CLog enough in a short time, the idea would be flipped, and you'd be locked in to Solo instead for a limited time.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[StiTch]

It is indeed a thing, just not made a thing of. NPCs don't get to complain when someone quits on them.

Edited post to state I reckon this could be adapted to PvE in the instance it were accepted. As I said - I actually love it as a solution; you aren't penalising someone outright per se, just forcing them to continue where they left off. This means jumping straight back into where they were to start with or taking time away from the game to chicken out properly. Details aside, it's conceptually perfect, and as you say...it's something that works on top of karma.

I just know what this place is like for palming off just about any consequence as "unfair". Again...now doesn't that sound like a common complaint...I said nuffin!

 

[TopCat160]

This is certainly the best idea I've seen.

If the tagging wasn't restricted to combat situations only, it would also become possible to analyse tag patterns - routine CLers would have a predominance of combat ones, whereas CMDRs with flaky internet connections and miscellaneous game crashes would have their tags scattered over numerous activities.

I had the misfortune to have a CTD while I was frantically trying to wake out of a gank situation after I'd been attacked by one of more well-known perps of that pastime. Fortunately the game crash handler kicked in and I clicked 'Send' straightaway.

I say 'fortunately', as no sooner had I logged back in but to add insult to injury he was messaging me accusing me of CLing and threatening to upload his video to some name and shame site somewhere. I explained that I had proof it wasn't a CL, but I don't know whether I'm now KoS to some. I submitted a support ticket on the subject and FD were very nice about it.

So the OP's tagging idea wouldn't stop the accusations from other players, unless somehow the tag count (and breakdown by activity) was visible to others, which might not be a bad idea.

But it's still the closest thing I've read to a simple, understandable, and reasonably straightforward-to-implement system. Kudos.

 

[Frenotx]

I like this. It's a pretty creative solution.

 

[kingbankai]

I've posted this in a separate thread before, but my original thread seems to have vanished, so I'm reposting it. (Mostly so I can find it again!)

A Tagging System
When you enter combat (ideally just PvP, but if it can't be distinguished, both PvE and PvP), a "tag" is placed on your save, which contains some information on your current game mode.
When you leave combat, the tag is removed. You'd be none the wiser.

If you illegally combat log, or have a CTD, server error, etc, while in combat, the tag would not be removed.

This "tag" is then read when loading the game, and using the information it stored, will only allow you to re-enter your previous mode for a limited time(including exact private group). Say 30* minutes from rejoining the game.
The timer is based on game time, not real time, and the tag will not be removed until the timer is up. So logging in, then immediately logging out will not remove the tag. Nor will sitting at the main menu.

I particularly like this idea, because if you're just going about your business and suffer a server failure or CTD while in combat, you simply reload the game and continue as normal, in your previous mode, which we all do anyway.

But if you're intentionally combat logging in PvP, your only options are to rejoin the same mode, where your opponent may be waiting (in PvP anyway), or don't return to the game.

No one is ever barred entirely from the game, and accidental disconnects are not punished, and non combat disconnects are not even registered.

*The timer could be longer or shorter, or even be dynamic, punishing serial CLoggers more.

Thoughts?

Note: using the 15 second timer to exit the game is not included in this, and holds no punishment.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

The only good idea for Combat Logging here. Give this human being a job. Or a free A-ranked engineered Cutter with 0cr Rebuy.