The Difference Between PvP and "Griefing"

[DOMN8TOR]

PVP is for CQC!

J/K, I'm here for my fish beating!

 

[DukeIronHand]

Boring day in the galaxy eh?
Who's bored here?
PvP'ers?
PvE'ers?
Which one is it?

 

[Jieun]

PvP is allowed in Open, whether you like it or not.

there are forms of pvp that are not allowed in open. you aren't signing up for it in any and all forms and open is not a completely "lawless" place. particularly targeted harassment is against the rules.

Well they're changing combat log timers so. They certainly see this being an issue if the make some activities restricted to open play only.

However right now its perfectly acceptable.

i don't really see a relation, but you can believe whatever you want to. at the moment, the simple fact is there's no reason to expect it'll change and every reason (as it's a dev-endorsed tool to deal with being griefed) to expect it won't.

 

[Zieman]

Again, I never said I wanted OPEN only.

Just the PVP aspects restricted to open play.

Private and solo are needed. And most of the people in private and solo could care less about effecting others within their groups. I mean they went there and left open so they couldn't be effected.

Plain and simple. Everything else is perfectly fine. I use solo and private too. Everyone does.

Fair enough.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

there are forms of pvp that are not allowed in open. you aren't signing up for it in any and all forms and open is not a completely "lawless" place. particularly targeted harassment is against the rules.



i don't really see a relation, but you can believe whatever you want to. at the moment, the simple fact is there's no reason to expect it'll change and every reason (as it's a dev-endorsed tool to deal with being griefed) to expect it won't.

I can put a hit on someone to be killed in elite dangerous for a price on reddit. And its allowed. Even fdev allows that. Cmon now. Thats not harassment. Even though most here will say it is.

As a matter of fact put one on me. I welcome it.

Now if I hit you 30 times in one hour. Maybe.

 

[Jieun]

I can put a hit on someone to be killed in elite dangerous for a price on reddit. And its allowed. Even fdev allows that. Cmon now.

if you put out a "hit" to get a person killed over and over for an extended period of time (specifically - as in, you attempt to stop him from playing the game altogether, and aren't simply shooting him when you see him), that would be against the rules.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

if you put out a "hit" to get a person killed over and over for an extended period of time (specifically - as in, you attempt to stop him from playing the game altogether, and aren't simply shooting him when you see him), that would be against the rules.

Lets be honest. If they arent smart enough to switch game modes after the 3-4th time. Thats on them. If they quit playing the game because of it. Thats on them. Not anyone else.

 

[Alderius]

Said this before, but worth repeating.

There is no point in trying to define "griefing" because the game allows the killing of players and any definition based on the attacking player's subjective intention goes nowhere.

The question should not be how or why the player is killed, but where. Killing a "clean" player in anarchy systems, conflict zones, controlled systems (with pledged players) is fine. Anywhere else is not. Killing a "wanted" player anywhere is fine.

If players followed these simple rules, then there would be no such thing as griefing, just a legal or illegal killing of a player. All the game needs is mechanics that discourage players who choose not to follow those rules (e.g. karma system).

I agree AD with the definition as you've mentioned. If there were to be some kind of program rule that wouldn't allow a clean player to be killed by another player in "normal" space, then it would be simple.
It would also mean that technically, no player would ever get a bounty because all of their kills would be "legal", the program preventing them from doing otherwise.

No Karma system required.

 

[Jieun]

Lets be honest. If they arent smart enough to switch game modes after the 3-4th time. Thats on them. If they quit playing the game because of it. Thats on them. Not anyone else.

according to the rules it's on the harasser.
now, you can make a personal choice to report or not, if you were to be harassed and found it to be tolerable. entirely your decision. but it's rulebreaking all the same.

 

[Alderius]

there are forms of pvp that are not allowed in open. you aren't signing up for it in any and all forms and open is not a completely "lawless" place. particularly targeted harassment is against the rules.



i don't really see a relation, but you can believe whatever you want to. at the moment, the simple fact is there's no reason to expect it'll change and every reason (as it's a dev-endorsed tool to deal with being griefed) to expect it won't.

Hold on, what? There are forms of PvP not allowed in Open? It is absolutely lawless, I can go out and be a murder hobo and all I have to worry about are the bounties, which can easily be erased with a suicidewinder.

 

[A D]

I agree AD with the definition as you've mentioned. If there were to be some kind of program rule that wouldn't allow a clean player to be killed by another player in "normal" space, then it would be simple.
It would also mean that technically, no player would ever get a bounty because all of their kills would be "legal", the program preventing them from doing otherwise.

No Karma system required.

Exactly +1

...except, if you want to keep the bounty system (and FD does), should not stop it completely. Just discourage it.

 

[thirstyfish]

Hold on, what? There are forms of PvP not allowed in Open? It is absolutely lawless, I can go out and be a murder hobo and all I have to worry about are the bounties, which can easily be erased with a suicidewinder.

Repeated targeting of one player will get you the harassment portion of the EULA with ease. As will your chat if you say the right things.

some things aren't enacted via gameplay mechanics.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

according to the rules it's on the harasser.
now, you can make a personal choice to report or not, if you were to be harassed and found it to be tolerable. entirely your decision. but it's rulebreaking all the same.

If I kill Imp traders over and over again at a CG to stop their progress. I could be flagged for harassment yeah?

Just because you feel griefed. Doesnt mean im doing it for your salt.

But everyone cries grief when someone happens to them thats unfavorable. Which is why this thread was created.

I feel griefed because people can effect my player group through private and solo. Where do I report this crap? And I cant block people, I cant change group modes or anything. Seems like you guys have it easy.

 

[Jieun]

Hold on, what? There are forms of PvP not allowed in Open? It is absolutely lawless, I can go out and be a murder hobo and all I have to worry about are the bounties, which can easily be erased with a suicidewinder.

as long as you don't go from "murderhoboing" to "harassment." i would say it's pretty easy to tell the difference.

 

[Dietger]

That's just it, in the Mobius groups (I think there are 2 or 3 now) the rules of the group basically state it's a PvE group, so no PvP except in a CZ. So you know that by signing up, there are rules and if you break them you get banned from the group (it has happened, but not too often I don't think). There is no such consensus or rule in Open, so nothing prevents players from doing what they want.

And yes, griefing is entirely subjective, you don't see that term thrown about in the PvP groups I bet hehe.

Apparently there is a bug in this Elite Dangerous Discussion game Alderius, which prevents me from givin you REP once again. Thanks for insights about Mobius, I didn't know.

I always thought OPEN is about liberty. Do what you want, do it now and where ever your ship sails. Within the context Elite applies. We are not talking "Itchy Nipples" we are talking CG, Pirates, Feds vs IMPs etc. All is well.

Apparently not, cos frustration about loosing against other players is too much it seems and Commanders seem to live in the false assumption, 4 FDL ganking you is forbidden etc. OPEN isn't meant to be FAIR.... but whom am I telling this, you and I know, but
some Commanders can't except the obvious.

 

[Stigbob]

I feel griefed because people can effect my player group through private and solo. Where do I report this crap?

The standard procedure is to moan ineffectually about it for a few years in the forum becoming increasingly bitter over time. Whilst ignoring people's well meant advice to research purchases to prevent similar disappointment in future.

 

[Jieun]

If I kill Imp traders over and over again at a CG to stop their progress. I could be flagged for harassment yeah?

Just because you feel griefed. Doesnt mean im doing it for your salt.

But everyone cries grief when someone happens to them thats unfavorable. Which is why this thread was created.

I feel griefed because people can effect my player group through private and solo. Where do I report this crap? And I cant block people, I cant change group modes or anything. Seems like you guys have it easy.

the way that you "feel griefed" is something the game was built around and you'd be better off going to a different game than waiting for it to change if it actually upsets you. solo/private having an impact on the BGS isn't going anywhere. the way that i "feel griefed" (actually how fdev apparently would define it - again, harassment, which is in the ToS) is specifically against the rules, which i didn't write.
but no, having a blockade at a CG or in powerplay or something like that probably wouldn't qualify.

 

[thirstyfish]

Apparently there is a bug in this Elite Dangerous Discussion game Alderius, which prevents me from givin you REP once again. Thanks for insights about Mobius, I didn't know.

I always thought OPEN is about liberty. Do what you want, do it now and where ever your ship sails. Within the context Elite applies. We are not talking "Itchy Nipples" we are talking CG, Pirates, Feds vs IMPs etc. All is well.

Apparently not, cos frustration about loosing against other players is too much it seems and Commanders seem to live in the false assumption, 4 FDL ganking you is forbidden etc. OPEN isn't meant to be FAIR.... but whom am I telling this, you and I know, but
some Commanders can't except the obvious.

Not always about fairness, but rather consequence. Right now, 4 FDLs can take down a python and sucidewinder the bounties right off (6000 cr or so). No consequences for the action. That is the issue that many have.

But try to spin it however you like, don't let me stop you.

 

[Alderius]

Repeated targeting of one player will get you the harassment portion of the EULA with ease. As will your chat if you say the right things.

some things aren't enacted via gameplay mechanics.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending harassment by any stretch (and I agree about the whole chat/dialogue aspect), but how does one get called out for harassment if destroying another commander is a valid game mechanic? If I'm in the same system as pilot x, and I destroy him 20 times, I could claim a multitude of reasons (PP, or superpower, or BGS etc etc). I can't see how the EULA applies in this respect.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

the way that you "feel griefed" is something the game was built around and you'd be better off going to a different game than waiting for it to change if it actually upsets you. solo/private having an impact on the BGS isn't going anywhere. the way that i "feel griefed" (actually how fdev apparently would define it - again, harassment, which is in the ToS) is specifically against the rules, which i didn't write.
but no, having a blockade at a CG or in powerplay or something like that probably wouldn't qualify.

Oh its the way the game was built. AMAZING!! So was getting shot in open play. GG