EDSM Exploration Data piracy: Be careful!

[Guest104505]

I swear this was an accident, but I have now learned that using EDDiscovery during an exploration trip might be a bad idea.

What happened? I downloaded a dump from the EDSM database and searched for the most earth-like planet I could find. I wanted a gravitation of 0.9-1.0g, oxygen levels around 20%, orbiting a K-type star because it's realistic if these have earth-like planets etc.

https://www.edsm.net/en/system/id/14051613/name/NGC+6188+Sector+NN-T+c3-5

[video=youtube;qnyxlX_L0wM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnyxlX_L0wM[/video]

And I found a perfect planet, one of a very few (10!) that matched all the criteria in the gigabyte-sized database. It's a really rare find and it's very close to Morgan's Rock, making it awesome. I just wanted to see it and went there. To my surprise, it was not "discovered". So I scanned all the planets and became the "first discoverer" of something very special someone else found for me.

That system was first discovered for EDSM by RedJimi on Jul 8, 2017, 1:02:43 AM.

Don't be that guy.




Just so you know, I did not actually scan all the planets. There's one left for you. I always do this when discovering something cool.

 

[marx]

Says "don't be that guy"
after being that guy

Sorry, but I don't see how scanning that planet (plus all the rest!) and then selling the data was an accident.

Although if the discoverer actually cared about getting the tag on their discovery, they had plenty of time to fly over to the base and sell the data. It has been two months since they uploaded it to EDSM, after all. But even so, that's hardly a good excuse.

 

[Guest104505]

Sorry for being unclear here. I have updated the title post. When saying "don't be that guy", I mean this one:

That system was first discovered for EDSM by RedJimi on Jul 8, 2017, 1:02:43 AM.

Of course I sold the data! Dude...

 

[iain666]

*slow hand clap*

 

[Aura Lorell]

I swear this was an accident, but I have now learned that using EDDiscovery during an exploration trip might be a bad idea.
<snip>
To my surprise, it was not "discovered". So I scanned all the planets and became the "first discoverer" of something very special someone else found for me.

Don't be that guy.

Just so you know, I did not actually scan all the planets. There's one left for you. I always do this when discovering something cool.

So not only you went and stole someone else's discovery, but you also went to the forums to mock them: don't be that guy.

Congratulations! <-- that is sarcasm in case you missed it

You have put your name on someone else's discovery exploiting tools outside the game. Many of us use those tools in good faith. The creators of those tools make them to help the exploration community not help people like you.

I'd report you but I have no idea if there are forum rules for people like you.

 

[Allitnil]

RedJimi might be a little naive but he's really not "that guy" in this scenario.

 

[marx]

Of course I sold the data! Dude...

I know of at least one guy who visited ELWs close to the bubble that he got from the EDSM data, and didn't scan and turn in the data for the ones that were actually untagged. He also tried contacting their discoverers. You could have done either, but you chose not to.

 

[Guest104505]

Nah. I have not originally done this on purpose and was actually sure that I would maybe be able to explore one single planet the original discoverer missed. After a month, I seriously did not expect this system to be "undiscovered". When arriving there, though, I noticed what happened. And I added a bug report to EDDiscovery asking them to add a warning about this.

Asking me not to take the unexpected opportunity though? The exploration was over a month ago, it could well have been someone who got destroyed on their trip and left this database entry behind.

You have put your name on someone else's discovery exploiting tools outside the game. Many of us use those tools in good faith. The creators of those tools make them to help the exploration community not help people like you.

This is why I created this post. Sometimes, good faith is not enough.

 

[withnail]

Don't understand. The other player could have scanned it two months ago and didn't. Their choice, so what's the problem?

 

[Guest104505]

Don't understand. The other player could have scanned it two months ago and didn't. Their choice, so what's the problem?

They did probably scan it, but did not sell the data. Either they are still on their trip or they got destroyed. If they're still on the trip (okay, unlikely now), the data is essentially "stolen" via an external tool.

 

[goemon]

1. you can delay sending the data till after docking. so, you can still use edsm while remaining paranoid. just check your settings.

2. feel free to stalk me on edsm, if you feel like it. i mainly explore to share the data and my findings, got enough first discoveries already (i learned i'm even a record holder recently ... thanks to edsm, and marx.)

 

[Qohen Leth]

They did probably scan it, but did not sell the data. Either they are still on their trip or they got destroyed. If they're still on the trip (okay, unlikely now), the data is essentially "stolen" via an external tool.

Unlikely? What do you know about the time one might spend in the black?

Besides, since EDSM records are public for most of them, it's obvious that someone else can access them and steal one's discoveries.

 

[marx]

Don't understand. The other player could have scanned it two months ago and didn't. Their choice, so what's the problem?

They did scan it, otherwise the body data wouldn't have been on EDSM.

Asking me not to take the unexpected opportunity though? The exploration was over a month ago, it could well have been someone who got destroyed on their trip and left this database entry behind.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I wasn't asking you to do anything.
And perhaps that was the case, but perhaps not. You'd know if you had asked RedJimi.

"Well, I saw that the owner had left the house unlocked when he went on vacation, so I couldn't pass up the opportunity and looted the place. Not to worry though, I left one of his purses in there so he still has something to come back to, and I warned others to lock their doors!"

 

[Jethro49]

Bumping in for a bit of off topic...

What if CMDR FarTraveller is on a long term trip, looping around the galaxy with an economic route (a true explorer ), and CMDR B is on an short exploration trip, and during this trip CMDR A scans an interesting body, and shortly after CMDR B scans the same interesting body, but CMDR B goes back to civilization before CMDR A and sells its data and therefore gets the first discovery tag ? (yes that's a long sentence for a non native English writer)

Should CMDR B checks its logs before handing the data and keep those already scanned by CMDR A until he returns ?

(note : this is a serious question about exploring etiquette, I'm not mocking or feeding the "that guy" discussion... it's quite different for the "that guy" story because the use of the 3rd party-tool was done before the expedition, and therefore the target was reached on purpose, not semi-randomly as explorers usually do).

 

[Aura Lorell]

Bumping in for a bit of off topic...

What if CMDR FarTraveller is on a long term trip, looping around the galaxy with an economic route (a true explorer ), and CMDR B is on an short exploration trip, and during this trip CMDR A scans an interesting body, and shortly after CMDR B scans the same interesting body, but CMDR B goes back to civilization before CMDR A and sells its data and therefore gets the first discovery tag ? (yes that's a long sentence for a non native English writer)

Should CMDR B checks its logs before handing the data and keep those already scanned by CMDR A until he returns ?

(note : this is a serious question about exploring etiquette, I'm not mocking or feeding the "that guy" discussion... it's quite different for the "that guy" story because the use of the 3rd party-tool was done before the expedition, and therefore the target was reached on purpose, not semi-randomly as explorers usually do).

I am on an extended circumnavigation trip. I fully understand that what I find may not be tagged by me. It's part of the explorer's life that someone may happen in the same system as you and may get first discovery if they sell first. It happened to me before and will happen again and I'm fine with it. And I am as naive as RedJimi and send my logs to EDDN and EGO as I scan and that won't change. I'd rather operate on good faith than paranoia.

This is a specific case where someone exploited outside the game tools to steal the first discovery. I don't care if they intended to do that in the first place. Marx's analogy above is perfect.

 

[marx]

Bumping in for a bit of off topic...

What if CMDR FarTraveller is on a long term trip, looping around the galaxy with an economic route (a true explorer ), and CMDR B is on an short exploration trip, and during this trip CMDR A scans an interesting body, and shortly after CMDR B scans the same interesting body, but CMDR B goes back to civilization before CMDR A and sells its data and therefore gets the first discovery tag ? (yes that's a long sentence for a non native English writer)

Should CMDR B checks its logs before handing the data and keep those already scanned by CMDR A until he returns ?

(note : this is a serious question about exploring etiquette, I'm not mocking or feeding the "that guy" discussion... it's quite different for the "that guy" story because the use of the 3rd party-tool was done before the expedition, and therefore the target was reached on purpose, not semi-randomly as explorers usually do).

Well, without getting the data from a third-party site, you have no way of knowing whether somebody else scanned the body before you and didn't turn it in yet. So CMDR B can't check their own logs to see what CMDR A has already scanned.

 

[Allitnil]

If you've discovered something independently then you have every right to claim the first discovery whoever might have been there before you. Bear in mind that most CMDRs don't use EDD, etc so if you did check all your finds against it then you would be giving the 3rd party tool users more rights than the rest.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

They did probably scan it, but did not sell the data. Either they are still on their trip or they got destroyed. If they're still on the trip (okay, unlikely now), the data is essentially "stolen" via an external tool.

I've been on trips lasting 8+ months over 550Kly+. It'd have taken twice that if I didn't rack up the insane amount of playtime I did during that 8 months
July 8th is only 2 months ago. They could easily be out exploring still, it takes some people a month to get to Colonia/Sag A*.


Short answer to this thread is - Accidentally tagging something that another explorer has come across is ok. Deliberately going out your way to steal discoveries is a "male chicken" move. Don't be that Cmdr.
If it becomes popular either EDSM or the players via delayed submitting will stop it. Currently i'm happy to say most people enjoy the shared discovery and being able to compare whilst still out flying. It'd be a sad world if many people did this.

 

[Hans Slowlow]

Bumping in for a bit of off topic...

What if CMDR FarTraveller is on a long term trip, looping around the galaxy with an economic route (a true explorer ), and CMDR B is on an short exploration trip, and during this trip CMDR A scans an interesting body, and shortly after CMDR B scans the same interesting body, but CMDR B goes back to civilization before CMDR A and sells its data and therefore gets the first discovery tag ? (yes that's a long sentence for a non native English writer)

Should CMDR B checks its logs before handing the data and keep those already scanned by CMDR A until he returns ?

(note : this is a serious question about exploring etiquette, I'm not mocking or feeding the "that guy" discussion... it's quite different for the "that guy" story because the use of the 3rd party-tool was done before the expedition, and therefore the target was reached on purpose, not semi-randomly as explorers usually do).

A legitimate question.

My humble opinion is that CMDR B is under no obligation to check any external database prior to selling his data so long as CMDR B did not use any external database to identify and find anything along the way.

I'll give you my personal example.

I am on a return trip from SAG A right now. I did a good bit of exploration on my way out and found some items of interest, including some ELWs. I get excited when finding such things as I come across them all honestly. I have neither contributed to nor ever consulted any external database to find anything.

Every time I find something interesting not previously discovered, I always wonder if I truly am the first or if someone else will find it after I did but sell the data before I do. And THAT is the risk ALL explorers take with any data they collect. The longer you stay out there, the better chance of someone coming behind you and selling the data before you do. It is just an inherent risk we all take.

Just now, I am on my return trip from SAG A, I am mostly making time by using some Neutron boosts and not doing too much exploring. But I am still checking every system I drop into and taking a closer look at anything catching my eye. I know full well that every detour I take provides a little more opportunity for someone to sell data and win first discovery of something I might have gotten.

Perhaps a bit long-winded, but there you are.

 

[Cdr Voorheez]

Something smells rotten here. My Spidey senses are twitching.