Modes The Open v Solo v Groups thread IV - Hotel California

[Crank Larson]

Even without bandwidth monitor (in game or on the hub or router or on the computer) and without rubber banding it's possible to identify human players.

They simply fly differently in SC than NPCs. A player would have to study the way NPCs fly in SC and mimic that behavior to make it harder for a hunter to identify that player as player.

And even if it would really be impossible to distinguish between humans and NPCs in SC. In normal space NPCs behave completely different.
And even if they would behave in normal space the same as NPCs. It doesn't matter if a player killer has to kill 10 NPCs to kill one player. The reward - assuming to have killed an other player - is there.

And then we have those players who don't attack other players, but do attack clean NPCs.

But having to identify humans by the way they fly is a skill, and that would add something to the game. Right now, it's obvious - look, there's a hollow square.

Incidentally, if you watch NPCs in a system for a while (I have done so), a lot of them jump out at the star and head straight to a space station. Exactly as a human trader would do.

Players are members of the Pilots Federation. NPCs are not. You could argue that this differentiation is just an excuse for the hallow square.

It is.

Anyway. A dedicated player killer is a much higher threat than an NPC. The player won't wait a few seconds. The player won't scan. The player will have highly modded weapons.

The level of threat is irrelevant.

I've been attacked by NPCs that don't wait and have modded weapons. Admittedly, player enemies are more dangerous - but that just adds to the game, surely? Can always escape to another mode...

 

[verminstar]

The 4 on 1 is a fake excuse, you just don't like Open rules and functionality.

No actually its not a fake excuse at all...I think ye will find its actually quite common considering how many have complained of just such a thing. That is a gross understatement which is simply not true...not unless I imagined it in a two day old sidewinder?

Did I imagine that?

Ye say ye like a challenge and then destroy yer own argument by defending ganking and declaring DC use to be KOS...I actually laughed out loud when I read that. This is just another example of the tripe we hear from open players who, on the one hand make the claim that open is fine and safe and not the murder pits some appear to believe...even after actually experiencing it fer themselves and then told it doesnt happen and its as rare as hens teeth...

While on another thread, they complaing about open being empty and calling fer solo and pg players to be forced into open because its a virtual wasteland, while calling solo players cowards and accusing them of hiding.

Hypocracy at its finest and one more reason why yer never gonna win that argument...nobody believes the excuses anymore. Most the time when they come onto the forums, one merely supplies the rope before standing back and watch them hang themselves on their own thread, before resorting to childish insults and innuendos because3 thats literally the only argument they have left.

Amusing to read sometimes...even more amusing to see how it almost always degenerates after the same old pattern of events. This is why I love hotel california...its all in the one place here and a literal plethora of examples exist which prove it beyond any shadow of a doubt.

Just about the only thing I agree with is yer statement about why some of us q1uit open completely. Fer me personally, it wasnt because I was hiding per se...its because I found the motivation behind it boring and weak. Its just pvp fer the sake of pvp...the role play elements are few and far between and the consequences are just laughable.

Put simply, if I chose to be a bad boy, then I expect the game and the players to treat me as such...currently that doesnt happen and that bores me enough to put me into single player mode. Elite isnt designed around pvp the way other games are...Im a lifelong lover of pvp but not on this game because the mechanics behind it are amateur at best with those practicing it regularly being as shallow as a pavement puddle ^

 

[verminstar]

I dont mind being trolled...I can count on one hand how many have actually caused me genuine offence in three decades of gaming forums without resorting to real life details to get under me skin.

Unfortunately fer me, most the times I lose the plot, its with a mod or admin or dev and strangely enough, that never really works out fer me

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

It's not security through obscurity. There is no reason that player ships should be any different to any other ship, hollow squares never made sense in the first place (it is purely a game mechanic; nothing to do with the galaxy). A threat is a threat whether the square is hollow or not - at the point someone moves behind you and is a triangle, they are a threat...

Actually if used lore wise the square box is meant to show a fellow PF member ie that we are part of the SAME faction. The problem is a section of the player base are using it for gamey horrible reasons... It's like members of the sas or special forces killing each other for lolz and is exactly why I don't think open can ever work until FD allow the PF to kick out traitors, which is what its own members blowing up clean PF member's is imo.

 

[PeLucheuh]

You're not "better" when you take a wing of combat ships and blow up Type 7s and 9s for no other reason than "you can".
That's not being a "better" anything.

Yeah i am way better because i can survive a gank. Why do you use the "for no other reason" fake argument ? I know you are fully aware about how the game works and can assume you are better than that.

While this is true, the main complaints seen on social media and these forums are "gank squads" as mentioned and for a lack of C&P system.
Both of these are related issues, as folk run gank squads due to nothing being in place to deter them doing it.

I agree there is a lack of C&P and reward system and it is an issue.
Gank squad is not an issue though.It is a mechanic provided by the non optional multiplayer functionality. A lot of people don't complain about it and choose to adapt or choose to play in another mode because they don't like this functionality.

All this talk of "challenge" is utter rubbish, people who want that "challenge" don't defend ganking and don't expect Open to provide that "challenge".
That's why we have Private Groups and CQC - so fair fights can be arranged for those who want a decent fight.

Really ? I like challenge and i defend ganking possibility and expect it to happen in Open because of its rules and functionalities.
Private groups is for people who wants to overwrite FDev Open rules and CQC another game...
Also you can arrange fair fights for people who wants a decent fight in Open (PvPers are doing it regularly and tonight at the CG)

Combat Ships and Wings in Open are not looking for anything fair or challenging, they are looking for easy targets.
Same reason why it's the same names resisting suggestions of removing the hollow box - you don't want to work for your kills.

No.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcLVPXB314c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2Q4cDrFTPY
I can post a lot of video like this (and will start streaming regularly soon). You should really get involved in PvP and talk by experience instead of making assumptions.
About hollow box, i personaly don't give a single baguette about it.

Yes there are people matching what you said but they are a minority (like people accusing PvPers of being psychopath).

A complaint and a statement can be the same thing and aren't mutually exclusive. "This tea is too hot" for instance is both. Now I would have let that nitpick slide, but you decided to bring common sense into it so I thought I'd show you some understanding

Thank you for the correction. My bad. I should have double check(ed...?) (even if i know i will always make mistakes in English)

Like you said, a complaint and a statement can also be different things (common sense ). For the assumption part : i worked a lot on BGS.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

I welcome our new Thargoid friends. They will kill everyone.

 

[Jockey79]

Why do you use the "for no other reason" fake argument ?

Here we go, the Trump tactic of calling everything "Fake" you know is true and cannot argue or justify. It doesn't work for him, it won't work for you.

So don't treat us like children, we know that attacking traders in over spec combat ships has nothing to do with profits/role play etc... there is no in-game reason for it.
You do it because you can do it and because you need to try and ruin someone else's gameplay to feed your own egos.

This was proven a long time ago, try going back over the old SOG threads - as you're making some very common and over used mistakes as your defence.

A lot of people don't complain about it and choose to adapt or choose to play in another mode because they don't like this functionality.

That's the point, Open lost players because of ganking/griefing - people like you keep trying to force players back into Open and yes, they do complain about it.
The forums are full of posts from people fed up with attitudes from gankers.

Also you can arrange fair fights for people who wants a decent fight in Open (PvPers are doing it regularly and tonight at the CG)

Not unless you keep the details quiet as if it becomes general knowledge, some PvP player clans will turn up for the sole purpose of ruining your plans.

I can post a lot of video like this

And other people can post videos of cats, what's your point?
In house SDC videos prove nothing.

Though I could post the video of David Braben saying PvP combat is supposed to be "rare and meaningful" - and I'd argue your videos do show how PvP isn't "rare".... so PvP needs a nerf then, as it happens too often

 

[Cmdr Ultra]

I welcome our new Thargoid friends. They will kill everyone.

God I hope so.

 

[Crank Larson]

Actually if used lore wise the square box is meant to show a fellow PF member ie that we are part of the SAME faction. The problem is a section of the player base are using it for gamey horrible reasons... It's like members of the sas or special forces killing each other for lolz and is exactly why I don't think open can ever work until FD allow the PF to kick out traitors, which is what its own members blowing up clean PF member's is imo.

I know what the lore excuse is. It is still an excuse so that they could implement the hollow squares for gameplay reasons, though. Which previous incarnation of the game has hollow squares? When was it added to lore? Anyway, I'll leave it at that as it is probably off-topic, and certainly a fruitless discussion; we'll always have hollow squares.

And there will always be a horrible section of the playerbase. The world is full of humans. As soon as one method for irritating other players becomes unfeasible, another will be found.

 

[PeLucheuh]

Here we go, the Trump tactic of calling everything "Fake" you know is true and cannot argue or justify. It doesn't work for him, it won't work for you.

So don't treat us like children, we know that attacking traders in over spec combat ships has nothing to do with profits/role play etc... there is no in-game reason for it.
You do it because you can do it and because you need to try and ruin someone else's gameplay to feed your own egos.

This was proven a long time ago, try going back over the old SOG threads - as you're making some very common and over used mistakes as your defence.

The only thing i use is logic and pragmatism. You should try. It is way better than assumptions.
Look at what we got here, an in-game reason (from multiple other existing reason) for attacking CMDRs : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...l-California?p=5897724&viewfull=1#post5897724
You are using very common assumptions and over used mistakes as trying to make a point.

That's the point, Open lost players because of ganking/griefing - people like you keep trying to force players back into Open and yes, they do complain about it.
The forums are full of posts from people fed up with attitudes from gankers.

Open lost/gain players because of its rules and functionalities.
I am not trying to force anyone on anything.
Forums are also full of posts from people fed up with attitudes from anti-PvP player.

Not unless you keep the details quiet as if it becomes general knowledge, some PvP player clans will turn up for the sole purpose of ruining your plans.

Yes it can happen and it is exciting. You have to acknowledge your personal choice has no effect on others choice in Open.

And other people can post videos of cats, what's your point?
In house SDC videos prove nothing.

My point was : here again your assumptions are wrong. That's why you should really get involved in PvP and talk by experience instead of making assumptions.

Though I could post the video of David Braben saying PvP combat is supposed to be "rare and meaningful" - and I'd argue your videos do show how PvP isn't "rare".... so PvP needs a nerf then, as it happens too often

Yeah making assumptions as always

Btw have you watched the stream yesterday ? Especially when Sandro and Ed were talking about game developpment and evolution ???

 

[Sneake Llama]

Why does this thread have a title of Hotel California? I know the song, i don't think it relates...

 

[Jesters09]

Why does this thread have a title of Hotel California? I know the song, i don't think it relates...

You can check out any time you like,
But you can never leave!'

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Why does this thread have a title of Hotel California? I know the song, i don't think it relates...

Because of the lyrics of the song. "You can check out any time you like but you can never leave".

In the last mega thread about this topic this was a common comment since the discussion usually involved the same participants. Some didn't take part for some time, but they always came back.

 

[thirstyfish]

Why does this thread have a title of Hotel California? I know the song, i don't think it relates...

What jesters09 said. And "We are all just prisoners here, of our own device." And "They stab it with their steely knives, but they just can't kill the beast."

 

[DD_Crash]

Whatever happened to the Commander who claimed to be the Voice of Open?

 

[Crank Larson]

Forums are also full of posts from people fed up with attitudes from anti-PvP player.

The forum's salty threads are generally inhabited by those who like to argue the extreme of either side (PvP, no PvP). I find both points of view are generally best ignored, as those with extreme views aren't remotely interested in finding a middle ground.

 

[PeLucheuh]

The forum's salty threads are generally inhabited by those who like to argue the extreme of either side (PvP, no PvP). I find both points of view are generally best ignored, as those with extreme views aren't remotely interested in finding a middle ground.

I agree.

 

[Jockey79]

The only thing i use is logic and pragmatism. You should try. It is way better than assumptions.
Look at what we got here, an in-game reason (from multiple other existing reason) for attacking CMDRs : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...l-California?p=5897724&viewfull=1#post5897724
You are using very common assumptions and over used mistakes as trying to make a point.

You linked to my post why? Nothing in it suggests any in-game reason to PvP for the sake of it.
Even the missions that count players as targets can be done without going near any human player. So that is a poor excuse for pew pew.

Open lost/gain players because of its rules and functionalities.

Yea, it's lack of rules and lack of functions to counter unwanted/ unnecessary PvP.
Plenty of posts here and on Social Media saying just this.

I am not trying to force anyone on anything.

So why are you here?
Because those of us who want Open, are there already.

Forums are also full of posts from people fed up with attitudes from anti-PvP player.

What forums are you reading, because it isn't this one?
Sorry, but SDCs forums don't count. Their anti-PvE posts on their message boards don't count.
FD forums have a clear message, as PvPers keep begging for people to come back to Open.

My point was : here again your assumptions are wrong. That's why you should really get involved in PvP and talk by experience instead of making assumptions.

See, you're making assumptions here - you seem to think I don't play open or don't PvP - you've never actually asked me or read about my times in open when I post them.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

Why does this thread have a title of Hotel California? I know the song, i don't think it relates...

oh lots of the lyrics relate, others have pointed out the most obvious candidates already -


Plenty of room at the Hotel California
Any time of year (any time of year) you can find it here.

He probably realised, like I did, that he was wasting his virtual breath and moved on.

which update is virtual breath coming in?

 

[Sneake Llama]

You linked to my post why? Nothing in it suggests any in-game reason to PvP for the sake of it.
Even the missions that count players as targets can be done without going near any human player. So that is a poor excuse for pew pew.

This makes zero sense. If the player is the target, how in the universe can this be done without going near that targeted player? That seems like a great excuse for PvP.

PvP is great fun, until a Federal Corvette attacks you, and when you decide to fight back and they start losing, they high tale it and... combat log. That's kind of annoying. Dude, you started the fight, but don't want to end it? You mad that I wasn't that easy of a target as you thought?

I always find it funny when you accuse someone of combat logging and then they proceed to tell you that you are the piece of garbage that has no skill. Yeah, I wasn't the one who cheated death, now am I?

Side rant aside, I love reading the haters of open and PvP. Really passes the time. There are certainly so much bias one way or the other. I don't really have a bias. I like all aspects of the game. Except mining. That crud is boring as all get out. Fudge mining. But I still do it to get my oh so needed missions and materials.

I am also very curious of why some players who I come across in Open don't reply to my in game chat or hails. It's like, hey, if you don't want to interact with other players, why the hekk are you in open? i play in open so can just chat and chill, maybe wing up and go bounty hunting or escort you if you got a big haul. But no. Some players are just shy I guess. But again, begs the question... why are you in open to begin with? Talk to me please. i'm lonely. I'm no ganker. I eat gankers for breakfast.