A review of BGS system allegiance and established backstory

[Goose4291]

It's weird right.. it's almost like FDEV don't care about their lore setting.

It's odd because when the Facece system (Imperial Navy HQ) fell to a BGS Anarchy, FDEV ran a community goal to put things right, yet oddly when certain groups expand and annex key Federal systems, they quite happily sit on their hands.

And then there's the system description of Nevermore...where they allowed an independent faction to have a supposed position in the Alliance Council of Admirals.

These examples are much worse than some lore rich systems changing hands in my opinion.

Looking at your sig, of course that's a much worse example to you as an individual. It's only reasonable that a Fed player who RP's as much as you do for the Alliance, watching his core worlds being gobbled up is likely to get their knickers in a twist over it.

And yeah, the whole PMF insertion thing was badly handled, particularly when they used to do the "Your inserted, you have system control" model they used originally.

 

[Apos]

That's one of my point, really well explained.

Though I don't take side about what happens in Ross 128. And even if personally I am sort of opposed to the feds, such an "attack" should trigger a response for the superpower. ATM it acts like every systems was independant and nobody gives a about what happens to their fellow member worlds. At least it should propose a CG where the feds ask for help.

That would be unfair though, because CGs are pure crap. They don't have a dynamic outcome because they attract a crowd that is dedicated solely to them.

Same logic applies: Why should the system be restored based on the actions of a horde of freelancers instead of actual Federal supporting players?

There has been plenty of an attack from actual players. The system is kept tightly in Alliance control until they get bored and move on or finally win. PvP, BGS, the whole package is there and happening right now. Well...not exclusively in Ross 128 since EDF decided to attack our other systems and our main faction so it got a bit more personal than Ross 128, but you get the idea.

 

[Deathwatch]

The implementation of Player Minor Factions from the start has been borked in a number of ways, I was list below:

- The Implementation of Player Group Ranking and Favouritism - Now if you didn't know Player Groups were given ranks such as Triple Elite etc, these came with additional perks and it was based on community size etc much of this focused on what group leaders had access to and as well as the weight of their communication, now im not sure how many groups rejected this offer because it was solid advertisement considering the terms that FDev made for the triple elite "power" but many of the more prominent CG's for player groups went to these groups (especially earlier on). This has also shown other issues with fixing issues being given more focus when certain groups scream and cry about it.

- Lore Checking - As it appears that the lore checking and content confirmation for the PMF was done by the community team rather than Lore Team, were as anyone who got the writer pledge for EDRPG knew their content had to go through the Lore Team itself which includes certain high up's in FDev.

- Initial Rank Input - (fixed) this now changed but the number of groups thrown in at stupidly high prestige.


Personally, I feel certain important minor factions to lore should be given influence boosts/strengthening to make them fair better up against numbers of players from player groups. However, the worst factor is the number of player groups that have constantly abused mechanics and kept them secret. Enough to slate members of the community and make requests that certain information remained hidden or intentionally try to decredit members of the community when they reveal information.

The worst people ive seen are those who excuse people of exploiting mechanics is when it was them who slipped up and set groups onto those mechanics which then proved truly how abusedable these were. Now I hope from now on FDEV are more recognising of people informing them privately of these things, so next time these abuses don't get put out in-game by people who are being abused by said mechanics being able to get revenge on their abusers.

 

[Goose4291]

Here's all I'm saying: You attack a superpower. You can dock at their stations. You can fly through their space. They don't retaliate. They don't fight back. They don't even try to influence the BGS. Why even have a backstory or bother to call it a superpower when it doesn't act like one? The answer is simple: without some kind of game mechanic to simulate a superpower, they simply do not exist.

Lets not even get started on the complete lack of player action having repercussions for them. Frontier will never do that.

The idea that in a Imperial-Fed BGS conflict that King Admiral Goose4291 can dock at an Imperial station and dump 500k worth of combat bonds for a Fed power, and then pop out and do the same for the Imps with no comeback kind of gives that away.

 

[Apos]

Abuses are based on a faulty frame established from FD themselves, which favours a transaction based BGS instead of an amount based one.

Frankly, things were better when only missions and combat bonds affected the BGS. And murder has been nerfed 3 times and it's still at a point where you have 0% chance of winning a war against a murder squad if you are the defender.

 

[Deathwatch]

Abuses are based on a faulty frame established from FD themselves, which favours a transaction based BGS instead of an amount based one.

Frankly, things were better when only missions and combat bonds affected the BGS. And murder has been nerfed 3 times and it's still at a point where you have 0% chance of winning a war against a murder squad if you are the defender.

The abuse that a number of factions used for a long time was the 1 bond drop in, which isn't active from what im aware of atm (im part on an anarchy faction) so murder is less of a problem, it still has an effect but no as much as the lawful factions.

I hope early into 3.0 they really sit down and put lots of work into the BGS, meanwhile the community team could focus on the promotion of roleplay etc.

 

[Apos]

The abuse that a number of factions used for a long time was the 1 bond drop in, which isn't active from what im aware of atm (im part on an anarchy faction) so murder is less of a problem, it still has an effect but no as much as the lawful factions.

I hope early into 3.0 they really sit down and put lots of work into the BGS, meanwhile the community team could focus on the promotion of roleplay etc.

Anarchies are immune to murder because they do not issue bounties. It's the only thing they have going for them.

Every other faction and what has changed is that it takes two days to get to 1% instead of one.

1 bond/bounty drop ins aren't that bad because they are extremely tedious and the travel time involved limits it a lot. 1 click trading was problematic and has been fixed. (although the fix completely destroyed mining affecting the BGS meaningfully as collateral damage, not cool)

The problem is, even if what's left is fixed, murder is still stupidly strong and with nothing able to stand up to it except than being an Anarchy and being immune to it. Not exactly fair.

And the problem is that murder is literally 1 click transaction per ship killed. Automatically no less. So it's just more of the same problem.

 

[Deathwatch]

Anarchies are immune to murder because they do not issue bounties. It's the only thing they have going for them.

Every other faction and what has changed is that it takes two days to get to 1% instead of one.

1 bond/bounty drop ins aren't that bad because they are extremely tedious and the travel time involved limits it a lot. 1 click trading was problematic and has been fixed. (although the fix completely destroyed mining affecting the BGS meaningfully as collateral damage, not cool)

The problem is, even if what's left is fixed, murder is still stupidly strong and with nothing able to stand up to it except than being an Anarchy and being immune to it. Not exactly fair.

And the problem is that murder is literally 1 click transaction per ship killed. Automatically no less. So it's just more of the same problem.

Well the original killer of anarchy and in a sense communist minor factions was the black market one tonne trading which could flatten your influence completely.

 

[Apos]

Well the original killer of anarchy and in a sense communist minor factions was the black market one tonne trading which could flatten your influence completely.

You should have seen smuggling missions in 1.3. +20% per mission.

 

[Deathwatch]

You should have seen smuggling missions in 1.3. +20% per mission.

I think i do remember that considering ive lurked around since alpha, but more recent memories are more memorable after all a number of them included accusations made against people of the PG i serve.

 

[Goose4291]

Well the original killer of anarchy and in a sense communist minor factions was the black market one tonne trading which could flatten your influence completely.

Which they weren't going to do anything about and had been ignoring it, right up until Hutton got hit with it.

Then magically, a hotfix within a week

 

[Ouberos]

Nice work OP.

I wonder if a solution to your immersion problems might be to recognise the factions not as political entities but as businesses.

So the system marked as Federal in lore but with an independent player group in charge is still a Federal system in taxation and voting but that the economy is largely driven by a powerhouse who have no affiliation with the Federales. Elite is a trading game after all so the factions represent trading entities rather than political ones. So for instance even the theology factions issue trading data and suffer profit and loss. On another thread people were questioning the term "Anarchy" and what it actually means but in reality FD have simply used the wrong description. Really the Anarchist factions should be labelled as "Organised Crime" as they are as much a business as the Corporate entities. They have defence forces and issue trading missions but specialise in drugs and slaves etc.

This explanation would also help you with the random nature of faction names. After all to develop a memorable identity for your business it is a good idea to have a quirky name.

Hope this helps with your immersion!

 

[Deathwatch]

Which they weren't going to do anything about and had been ignoring it, right up until Hutton got hit with it.

Then magically, a hotfix within a week

Exactly, why I said only top tier player groups ever got any issues fixed. At the end of the day its a frustation.

 

[XanderVekk]

Nice work OP.

I wonder if a solution to your immersion problems might be to recognise the factions not as political entities but as businesses.

So the system marked as Federal in lore but with an independent player group in charge is still a Federal system in taxation and voting but that the economy is largely driven by a powerhouse who have no affiliation with the Federales. Elite is a trading game after all so the factions represent trading entities rather than political ones. So for instance even the theology factions issue trading data and suffer profit and loss. On another thread people were questioning the term "Anarchy" and what it actually means but in reality FD have simply used the wrong description. Really the Anarchist factions should be labelled as "Organised Crime" as they are as much a business as the Corporate entities. They have defence forces and issue trading missions but specialise in drugs and slaves etc.

This explanation would also help you with the random nature of faction names. After all to develop a memorable identity for your business it is a good idea to have a quirky name.

Hope this helps with your immersion!

This. Pretty much. Anyone who can't fathom how a modern democracy can have an anarchy system in the middle of it...

Chicago and Al Capone during prohibition?
Las Vegas when the mob used to run everything? You ever see the movie 'Casino'? Yeah. Anarchy. That actually happened. Former Las Vegas mayor Oscar Goodman played HIMSELF in the movie, as the attorney for the notorious mob boss "Lefty" Rosenthal.

 

[McEckett]

Nice work OP.

I wonder if a solution to your immersion problems might be to recognise the factions not as political entities but as businesses.

So the system marked as Federal in lore but with an independent player group in charge is still a Federal system in taxation and voting but that the economy is largely driven by a powerhouse who have no affiliation with the Federales. Elite is a trading game after all so the factions represent trading entities rather than political ones. So for instance even the theology factions issue trading data and suffer profit and loss. On another thread people were questioning the term "Anarchy" and what it actually means but in reality FD have simply used the wrong description. Really the Anarchist factions should be labelled as "Organised Crime" as they are as much a business as the Corporate entities. They have defence forces and issue trading missions but specialise in drugs and slaves etc.

This explanation would also help you with the random nature of faction names. After all to develop a memorable identity for your business it is a good idea to have a quirky name.

Hope this helps with your immersion!

A head-cannon suggestion, eh? Why not
But the security rating of a system kinda already represent that: official gov beeing corrupt or in any case unable to tackle crime.

You know, I actually thought of a solution like that... Maybe we could have player factions changed to guilds, or associations, or companies, or anything that sounds "business interest" depending of their ethics being corporate, democracy or anything. Then we make them have a separate tab in station services. They would exercise their clout over systems and stations, but would not be real political parties the faction try to emule (though could still lobby for one, meaning their player base support a faction of their liking). Some NPC could be added as well... It could even give an opportunity to create true guild mechanics that many players keep asking about, but it would probably mean to rethink the whole BGS for it. A lot of work for our beloved frontier!

I think we all agree Anarchy is not well named, yes. What about anarcho-communist or anarcho-capitalist folk by the way? They're anarchy, but not criminals! Maybe cooperative and corporate governments already represent that. Coop only keep space police to secure space lines and corporates hire private security for policing though do not enforce labour laws or things like that.

 

[smiths121]

Nice work OP.

I wonder if a solution to your immersion problems might be to recognise the factions not as political entities but as businesses.

So the system marked as Federal in lore but with an independent player group in charge is still a Federal system in taxation and voting but that the economy is largely driven by a powerhouse who have no affiliation with the Federales. Elite is a trading game after all so the factions represent trading entities rather than political ones. So for instance even the theology factions issue trading data and suffer profit and loss. On another thread people were questioning the term "Anarchy" and what it actually means but in reality FD have simply used the wrong description. Really the Anarchist factions should be labelled as "Organised Crime" as they are as much a business as the Corporate entities. They have defence forces and issue trading missions but specialise in drugs and slaves etc.

This explanation would also help you with the random nature of faction names. After all to develop a memorable identity for your business it is a good idea to have a quirky name.

Hope this helps with your immersion!

It fits, but its hard not to think of minor factions as political entites when they have a government type sucxh as Deomcraacy, Political etc. I suspect frameof reference as with your example is going to be needed.

The "lore" is lurking in the background, but the mechanics treat all minor factions the same. Not all player groups are BGS player groups, many just want a home, and do ther things, Fuel Rats, Canon etc. Of the BGS player groups, I wonder what he split between "super power lore promoting" (Fed, Alliance or Empire) and "empire building" player groups actually is?

As ED is a rebrand/reboot of FFE and FE2, games from a different generation of gaming, I would imagine a lot of BGS players are "empire builders", without too much thought to the lore.

I really do not like the number of indy player groups in Fed space, I wonder what it will look like in 5 years time. Hard to blame the player groups, same for the Laveradio crew - wanted to take Lave and expand, I suppose to the other Alliance systems in the the little enclave. This is rathe reversing new ED only lore, originally put together by one of the crew.

Mechanics, objective, group content (including competition), welcome to the BGS - I think lore has a hard time being relevent and will need mechanics to support it,and a lot easier to get hold of/exposed through game.

And this is before PP....
Not looked, how many Independent systems in Fed space, lining the pocket of the Alliance Prime Minister?


Simon

Simon

 

[XanderVekk]

One thing I have noticed that affects the BGS considerably:

Independent factions tend to give the best missions without requiring allied status. You arrive in a random system with five Fed or Alliance factions, and one independent. Guess who's handing out multiple multi- million credit three-jump passenger missions right out of the gate? The superpower factions lock that up behind friendly or allied, then when you REACH friendly or allied, those missions are nowhere to be found. The indies are still handing them out like candy.

It's no small wonder the galaxy is turning yellow. It's kind of asinine, I hope the new 2.4 mission system fixes that.

 

[Apos]

One thing I have noticed that affects the BGS considerably:

Independent factions tend to give the best missions without requiring allied status. You arrive in a random system with five Fed or Alliance factions, and one independent. Guess who's handing out multiple multi- million credit three-jump passenger missions right out of the gate? The superpower factions lock that up behind friendly or allied, then when you REACH friendly or allied, those missions are nowhere to be found. The indies are still handing them out like candy.

It's no small wonder the galaxy is turning yellow. It's kind of asinine, I hope the new 2.4 mission system fixes that.

That's an interesting observation. I will be keeping an eye out from now on.

The mission generation is atrocious. The alliance patronage that you are pummelling has a long history of never producing massacre missions during war time. In fact, it produces more of them out of it.

Not that it matters though...because someone screwed up the mission designation of massacre missions and they don't affect wars because they don't count as combat transactions.

 

[Aashenfox]

<ahem>ross 128<ahem>

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

I became worried about the topic of lore discrepancies when, passing by Delta Pavonis, I saw it as an Anarchy system. “Isn’t it supposed to be a steady federal system or something?”, I said to myself… As I investigated, I saw that many systems were in the same situation, where current BGS status and established lore strongly contradict each other.

I led the group that flipped Delta Pavonis to its current anarchy faction. We did this so that the rare good, Pavonis Ear Grubs, could be on sale again.
The Fed factions in Delta Pavonis all make the rare good illegal, so I challenge your statement that this system is supposed to be Fed.

Riedquat was flipped to anarchy a couple of months ago. I helped that happen as well, but it's a busy system and I there were several other players on both sides of the war. Riedquat was a particularly dangerous anarchy system in the original game. There is a tourist beacon in the system that has some of this history.

I like what you have done in the table. can you please add the following systems as well:

• Aganippe
• Dea Motrona
• Gilya
• Wolf 1301

I think they are all firmly in the "doesn't make sense" category.